And now, for the real reason the FDA has destroyed the vapor industry

[rwoodin]

LONDON

"British American tobacco has offered to buy out Reynolds American Inc. for $47 billion in an attempt to gain a strong presence in the U.S., a lucrative market where sales of electronic cigarettes are booming as traditional smoking fades."

$47 billion offer to create world's biggest tobacco company

 

[Oliver]

Reynolds and BAT are pretty much sister companies and BAT owns 40% of RJR already. This has been on the cards for a long time, but seems the weak pound has given BAT extra purchasing power (counterintuitive, but BAT holds most of its cash in non-British currencies). So, they're making the move now.

Something else that doesn't seem to be getting much in the way of notice from the vape community - PMI/Altria are about to go very hard at the Harm Reduction market with their new heat not burn product, iQos.

BAT and Reynolds have a technology sharing agreement which means Reynolds would likely be putting iFuse on the market. iFuse is a sort of hybrid vape and heat not burn.

Given that it's been available for some time in parts of Europe for some time, I'd be amazed if they hadn't grandfathered it in the US. Altria claims they grandfathered iQos for 8/8 in 10 US cities. They're submitting an MRTP later this year - only the second one ever submitted, and they claim that it consists of over 2 million pages!

The next tobacco war: the battle for control of the heat not burn market.

 

[zoiDman]

Reynolds and BAT are pretty much sister companies and BAT owns 40% of RJR already. This has been on the cards for a long time, but seems the weak pound has given BAT extra purchasing power (counterintuitive, but BAT holds most of its cash in non-British currencies). So, they're making the move now.

...

And of course the FDA's Long awaited finalization of the Deeming Rule set.

BTW - RAI is currently trading Up by about 14 Points.

(RAI) Historical Prices & Data - NASDAQ.com

 

[rwoodin]

I just now looked at the iQos. $87 for the heater and $6 for each pack of 20 heatsticks. Basically a pack of cigarettes, soaked in PG, chopped down to half size, each heatstick inserted into the heater to produce tobacco infused vapor. 14 puffs per stick. OMG the humanity! They will probably make a fortune, seeing as it will cost a fortune for anyone who uses this product as an alternative to smoking. My first thought is, iQos could be better than smoking, but your still inhaling vaporized tobacco juice, which makes me think, head, mouth and throat cancer will be making a great comeback. I could be completely wrong about that as I have not looked into or ever used heating vaporizers. Hilarious that the FDA will say 'um, OK, those are fine' after demonizing vaping for ten years. Deplorables, the governments full of 'em.

 

[Rossum]

My first thought is, iQos could be better than smoking, but your still inhaling vaporized tobacco juice, which makes me think, head, mouth and throat cancer will be making a great comeback.

I wonder if the 2 million page MRTP application contains any data regarding the TSNA levels in the vapor and how they compare with our vapes?

I agree with the economics; they make no sense compared to our vapes, where a lifetime supply of nic base costs $500-$1000 and all the other consumables are are even less. And that's the real reason that the BT/BG cabal wants to kill our style of vaping; there's simply no money in it for them, while HnB "heatsticks" and the like would ensure a continuing revenue stream to both BT (who will make them) and BG (who will tax them just like cigarettes).

 

[zoiDman]

...

I agree with the economics; they make no sense compared to our vapes, where a lifetime supply of nic base costs $500-$1000 and all the other consumables are are even less. And that's the real reason that the BT/BG cabal wants to kill our style of vaping; there's simply no money in it for them, while HnB "heatsticks" and the like would ensure a continuing revenue stream to both BT (who will make them) and BG (who will tax them just like cigarettes).

Yeah... I think many still have the mindset of "Free Market" thinking when looking at things like Trends, Innovation and or Consumer Preferences.

But if somehow our vapes Magically Disappeared from the US Market, like thru FDA PMTA Costs, then BT's Longer Term Goals seem much more Viable.

 

[Bill Godshall]

The title of this thread is inaccurate. BAT's proposal to buy Reynolds is a business decision.

But it does appear that FDA's imposing the Deeming Regulation helped convince BAT to make the offer, which Reynolds is likely to provide a counterproposal.

 

[Muru]

While I can understand the animosity towards Big T and their products, I do believe there is a place for iQos and the likes. Vaping doesn't do it for everybody; these products might. As far as throat- and mouthcancers are concerned, that doesn't happen with snus either. I see no reason why the risk would be greater with heat-not-burn products.

 

[Ardo]

On a side note - FDA hasn't destroyed the vapor industry just yet. They're working hard to make sure this happens, but the fight is far from over.