Any tips for improving my invisible vapor mix?

[sofarsogood]

After 2 years of blissfully vaping on the shop floor at work we were informed suddenly that it is now banned. I couldn't believe it at first because there have been no problems. The space is huge with 30' ceilings and foul air from many sources. But they are QUITE serious about it. Supervisors have been doing some stalking, hoping to catch us in the act, me especially, of CHEATING! For SHAME!

So I mixed up a batch of DIY looking for minimum vapor and odor. The first try is 9mg nic, 1% Cupacinno flavoring and the balance PG. If I hold the puff for a couple of seconds there is zero visible vapor in the exhale as long as all of it gets into my lungs and is exhaled from there. The vapor texture is sub par, the taste is too sweet. The only thing it's good for is delivering nic.

So what might I do to improve the flavor and texture without promoting visible vapor? Rest assured this question is purely to serve the noblest aspirations of science and discovery. I would never be a cheater. (fade out on the Natiional Geographic theme song)

 

[r77r7r]

Good luck! Also remember to drop some good info in HR's mailbox with the truth about vaping. Most folks just react to what they hear on the news.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

After 2 years of blissfully vaping on the shop floor at work we were informed suddenly that it is now banned. I couldn't believe it at first because there have been no problems. The space is huge with 30' ceilings and foul air from many sources. But they are QUITE serious about it. Supervisors have been doing some stalking, hoping to catch us in the act, me especially, of CHEATING! For SHAME!

So I mixed up a batch of DIY looking for minimum vapor and odor. The first try is 9mg nic, 1% Cupacinno flavoring and the balance PG. If I hold the puff for a couple of seconds there is zero visible vapor in the exhale as long as all of it gets into my lungs and is exhaled from there. The vapor texture is sub par, the taste is too sweet. The only thing it's good for is delivering nic.

So what might I do to improve the flavor and texture without promoting visible vapor? Rest assured this question is purely to serve the noblest aspirations of science and discovery. I would never be a cheater. (fade out on the Natiional Geographic theme song)

Try doing the same thing with any of your favorites. I find when I need to I just hold it in(reg mix) and nothing comes out at all. Remember it is not the flavor but the vg that produces the vapor. If you are worried about the smell, it only lasts a couple of seconds anyway. And if it smells like coffee that is easily explained isn't it?


or you just do nic and pg? NO flavoring.

 

[r77r7r]

Yeah, an Icare mini w/ unflavored 70pg 36/g/ml

 

[sofarsogood]

Yeah, an Icare mini w/ unflavored 70pg 36/g/ml

The other parts of the plan are what device and what tactics. I watched the Pbusardo review of the iCare devices. They are a possibility but I'm going to try my usual SV rda with an Evic Basic which is on the way. I'm avoiding devices I can't rebuild because of the FDA.

It would be nice to have a setup that's so discrete it's usable literally anywhere. I think that will get figured out if it hasn't already.

I don't see what rational argument can be used against a device that creates no visible vapor but "rational" isn't a term commonly used in management.

 

[DaveP]

I vape 70pg/30vg. I get all sorts of vapor at 10 watts, but I can hold it in my lungs for 10 seconds and the exhale is thin or non-existent.

Where you get caught is in puff mode unless you can conceal it when you take a hit. Your fellow employees may be pointing and giggling while management is near. Watch your back or head into the restroom to vape. If you have to do that, up your nic to allow infrequent vapes.

24mg nic is a good place to be for stealth. You don't have to vape a lungful to get your nic. Just hold it in your mouth for a few seconds, inhale it, wait a few seconds, and exhale downward.

You can add some Hangsen Highway or other tobacco flavor to counteract the sweetness.

 

[sofarsogood]

I vape 70pg/30vg. I get all sorts of vapor at 10 watts, but I can hold it in my lungs for 10 seconds and the exhale is thin or non-existent.

Where you get caught is in puff mode unless you can conceal it when you take a hit. Your fellow employees may be pointing and giggling while management is near. Watch your back or head into the restroom to vape. If you have to do that, up your nic to allow infrequent vapes.

24mg nic is a good place to be for stealth. You don't have to vape a lungful to get your nic. Just hold it in your mouth for a few seconds, inhale it, wait a few seconds, and exhale.

One of the interesting things about this situation is the other guys are being snitches on this. That is VERY unusual. Part of it may be the smokers are jealous. Lately the smokers aren't the cool guys any more. Now it's the vapers.

The tactics and choice of hardware are separate issues. Invisible vapor is necessary. What I learn might end up getting the rule changed or relaxed. Yes I can increase the nic but I'm resisting that.

One of the benefits of the ban is I'm vaping fewer ml per day and that's a long term goal but being employed is a lot easier when I can vape at my leisure. The smokers in the shop are switching to vaping. That means a healthier shop, good for everybody, including the business.

I think there are a lot of people working on how to defeat the bans and restrictions by tweaking the technology. I suspect the iCare devices are for stealth, not beginners.

 

[IDJoel]

I gotta say it; if you're considering circumventing the system... be prepared to pay the price. Right/wrong, logic, and common sense don't apply. It is their ball and their ballpark. If you don't want to play they can send you home (permanently).

Not sure about the snitching. I have never approved of tattletales but I also have never been enamored by the self-centered jerk that felt the rules didn't apply to him when everyone around him was trying to play fair. Especially when it can make matters even worse for everybody. That always struck me as just plain selfish. But that's just me.

OK that's off my chest. Sounds like you're thinking along the right line. High ohms, low watts, single coil, low VG, and higher nic. Rebuildable is tough though to keep compact without dripping (which attracts more attention). Maybe and old-school tube style mech mod (as an example) that uses an 18350 and a short tank like the Avocado? That might be short enough to palm, and with a single coil/high ohm build, the battery and liquid ought to last you for half a day I would think.

Aroma was one thing I first thought about but I don't know what the environment is like where you work (workplace odors). I have never been able to "smell" my own vape though I know it plays heavily in what I "taste." I was amazed at how much flavor I lost the last time I had a head cold. I have seen plenty of flavor and recipe reviews that mention others commenting on the smell. I might be inclined to find a friend/family member with a bloodhound nose and get their opinion on what (if anything) they can detect.

I was also thinking along the lines of need fulfillment vs. pleasure fulfillment. And that suggested unflavored. Over the last 6 months I have been struggling with on-again/off-again vaper's tongue and have started vaping unflavored simply because nothing was sounding particularly inspiring. I was pleasantly surprised with how it tasted. Not too sweet, no unpleasant chemical notes or lingering after tastes. I started with the intent to just let my taste buds reset, and return to flavored full time, and now it has become about 60% of my vaping rotation. Whodda thunk?

 

[JCinFLA]

Watch your back or head into the restroom to vape. If you have to do that, up your nic to allow infrequent vapes.

I pretty much agree with the above. I'd head into the restroom to vape slightly higher nic, in unflavored eliquid. Best way to stay stealthy IMO, even in the bathroom, & not be breaking the "no vaping on the shop floor" rules. That way, no need to watch out for "snitches" either. Also, I don't think I'd risk my job...to try to vape on the shop floor at all.

OR
​

Do you get breaks during your shift, other than maybe 1 for lunch? Is it possible to step outside the shop on those breaks and vape alittle higher nic in your eliquid?

 

[sofarsogood]

I gotta say it; if you're considering circumventing the system... be prepared to pay the price. Right/wrong, logic, and common sense don't apply. It is their ball and their ballpark. If you don't want to play they can send you home (permanently).

Not sure about the snitching. I have never approved of tattletales but I also have never been enamored by the self-centered jerk that felt the rules didn't apply to him when everyone around him was trying to play fair. Especially when it can make matters even worse for everybody. That always struck me as just plain selfish. But that's just me.

OK that's off my chest. Sounds like you're thinking along the right line. High ohms, low watts, single coil, low VG, and higher nic. Rebuildable is tough though to keep compact without dripping (which attracts more attention). Maybe and old-school tube style mech mod (as an example) that uses an 18350 and a short tank like the Avocado? That might be short enough to palm, and with a single coil/high ohm build, the battery and liquid ought to last you for half a day I would think.

Aroma was one thing I first thought about but I don't know what the environment is like where you work (workplace odors). I have never been able to "smell" my own vape though I know it plays heavily in what I "taste." I was amazed at how much flavor I lost the last time I had a head cold. I have seen plenty of flavor and recipe reviews that mention others commenting on the smell. I might be inclined to find a friend/family member with a bloodhound nose and get their opinion on what (if anything) they can detect.

I was also thinking along the lines of need fulfillment vs. pleasure fulfillment. And that suggested unflavored. Over the last 6 months I have been struggling with on-again/off-again vaper's tongue and have started vaping unflavored simply because nothing was sounding particularly inspiring. I was pleasantly surprised with how it tasted. Not too sweet, no unpleasant chemical notes or lingering after tastes. I started with the intent to just let my taste buds reset, and return to flavored full time, and now it has become about 60% of my vaping rotation. Whodda thunk?

As far as flavoring. My every day mix is 1-1.5% flavoring because that's enough for my taste, because it's more discrete in the air and doesn't have much impact if there is a spill in my pocket. I don't get tired of a flavor at 1%.

I remember now trying to ask related questions about invisible vapor here in the past and getting resistance. Okay, fine. I shouldn't have tried it again but I forgot.

In my view stealth tactics are a worthy topic for a lot of people in a lot of situations. If the local parks make a rule against vaping I'll resist by trying to be more discrete and if confronted I'll comply by not using the parks. We don't need parks when there are so many street corners to hang out on and we can save a lot of money by not funding them.

If the shop hadn't let me vape on the floor in the beginning I'd still be smoking and that's true for several others. If we were currently working 8 hours a day I wouldn't bother with these issues but we are working 11's and 12's plus a half day Saturday and that will continue indefinitely. Apparently a guy I didn't know walked out with his tools Thursday or Friday last week over the new rules. Another is defying and there may be several others. Invisible vapor may be an acceptable compromise if it's an option.

When I was still smoking I did what the other smokers still do, "sneak" out the back for a smoke. I hated that and it was nice to be done with it for the last 2 years. I'm considering a home made patch but I doubt it's feasible. May be snus is worth a try but I don't know if it's available and I'm not considering anything that's similar to chewing (which is also against the new rules). Retirement is an option for me but I'm enjoying work and it's comforting to have the money coming in.

I've had commercial success in the past as a garage inventor and worked on controversial issues. Everything new is controversial (electronic cigarettes for example). It's a lesson inventors learn. I won't work on things that have unobivious safety hazards that can't be fixed but other people's moral sensitivities are not one of my constraints because then there would be no inventions.

 

[mcclintock]

A little water has been used used in stealth formulas.

Sounds like it's causing tensions. You have the nonvapers on one side and the vapers that couldn't keep it on the down-low on the other. Unfortunate but not cool. Not that I wouldn't be tempted to give the snitches a dose of Inawera Virginia... they'll be too busy trying to figure out where that horrible cat pee smell is coming from to think about your vape.

Could start going outside and burn a cig as a timer when you vape.

One thing might be to get an iCare or other tiny thing and still have your regular vape which you use outside, make it clear what you use for enjoyment and what you use for nicotine. Personally I'd rather not vape unless it's enjoyable, but if you're talking hours and hours I might even try gum again.

 

[Kenna]

As far as flavoring. My every day mix is 1-1.5% flavoring because that's enough for my taste, because it's more discrete in the air and doesn't have much impact if there is a spill in my pocket. I don't get tired of a flavor at 1%.

I remember now trying to ask related questions about invisible vapor here in the past and getting resistance. Okay, fine. I shouldn't have tried it again but I forgot.

In my view stealth tactics are a worthy topic for a lot of people in a lot of situations. If the local parks make a rule against vaping I'll resist by trying to be more discrete and if confronted I'll comply by not using the parks. We don't need parks when there are so many street corners to hang out on and we can save a lot of money by not funding them.

If the shop hadn't let me vape on the floor in the beginning I'd still be smoking and that's true for several others. If we were currently working 8 hours a day I wouldn't bother with these issues but we are working 11's and 12's plus a half day Saturday and that will continue indefinitely. Apparently a guy I didn't know walked out with his tools Thursday or Friday last week over the new rules. Another is defying and there may be several others. Invisible vapor may be an acceptable compromise if it's an option.

When I was still smoking I did what the other smokers still do, "sneak" out the back for a smoke. I hated that and it was nice to be done with it for the last 2 years. I'm considering a home made patch but I doubt it's feasible. May be snus is worth a try but I don't know if it's available and I'm not considering anything that's similar to chewing (which is also against the new rules). Retirement is an option for me but I'm enjoying work and it's comforting to have the money coming in.

I've had commercial success in the past as a garage inventor and worked on controversial issues. Everything new is controversial (electronic cigarettes for example). It's a lesson inventors learn. I won't work on things that have unobivious safety hazards that can't be fixed but other people's moral sensitivities are not one of my constraints because then there would be no inventions.

I wonder if the smokers didn't complain about not being able to smoke, but the vapers could vape. Remember, non-vapers consider vaping to be the same thing as smoking. They don't understand that it's not at all the same. Management is cutting to the root by not allowing any of it. The smokers probably ARE watching & telling, since they are the ones that started the ban. I don't know a solution other than high pg/unflavored/ high nic, in a small, discreet set up in the restroom where you can't be seen.

 

[sofarsogood]

A little water has been used used in stealth formulas.

Sounds like it's causing tensions. You have the nonvapers on one side and the vapers that couldn't keep it on the down-low on the other. Unfortunate but not cool. Not that I wouldn't be tempted to give the snitches a dose of Inawera Virginia... they'll be too busy trying to figure out where that horrible cat pee smell is coming from to think about your vape.

Could start going outside and burn a cig as a timer when you vape.

One thing might be to get an iCare or other tiny thing and still have your regular vape which you use outside, make it clear what you use for enjoyment and what you use for nicotine. Personally I'd rather not vape unless it's enjoyable, but if you're talking hours and hours I might even try gum again.

Thanks, I'll add a drop or two of water to the rda. (edit: A tiny bit of water made a big difference, probably for the better, thanks.)

I'm not going to deliberately risk a confrontation over this but now I'm interested and kick into inventor mode.

Another thing I'm working on "in secret" is a solution to enable color blind people to interpret multi color machine status lights. (A lot of people are color blind.) In this case the solutions aren't so hard to find. The challenge is noticing there is an issue in the first place. In a lot of places the worker bees aren't supposed to have ideas.

If you want inventors and inventions you have to have a society where kids are encouraged to be independent minded, which means they will have some ideas you don't like. Places with too much intolerance for free thinking don't have inventors unless it's coming up with clever new IED's for blowing up people who are free thinkers.

America is the best place in the world, by far, to be an inventor. At least it has been so far.

 

[sofarsogood]

A little water has been used used in stealth formulas.

Sounds like it's causing tensions. You have the nonvapers on one side and the vapers that couldn't keep it on the down-low on the other. Unfortunate but not cool. Not that I wouldn't be tempted to give the snitches a dose of Inawera Virginia... they'll be too busy trying to figure out where that horrible cat pee smell is coming from to think about your vape.

Could start going outside and burn a cig as a timer when you vape.

One thing might be to get an iCare or other tiny thing and still have your regular vape which you use outside, make it clear what you use for enjoyment and what you use for nicotine. Personally I'd rather not vape unless it's enjoyable, but if you're talking hours and hours I might even try gum again.

Thanks for the tip. I made another batch with 10% water, 1% flavoring, upped the nic from 9 to 12 mg and the balance is PG. The taste, texture and throat hit are improved, there might be even less visible vapor, and it makes my head spin. It's so watery the only place it's going to work without leaking is an rda with an air supply on one side of the barrel which is what I use every day already.

Now may be we need a new vape sport on the opposite pole from cloud competitions- to vape (undetected) where no vaper has vaped before. (one more fade on the National Geographic theme song.)

 

[Kenna]

Thanks, I'll add a drop or two of water to the rda. (edit: A tiny bit of water made a big difference, probably for the better, thanks.)

I'm not going to deliberately risk a confrontation over this but now I'm interested and kick into inventor mode.

Another thing I'm working on "in secret" is a solution to enable color blind people to interpret multi color machine status lights. (A lot of people are color blind.) In this case the solutions aren't so hard to find. The challenge is noticing there is an issue in the first place. In a lot of places the worker bees aren't supposed to have ideas.

If you want inventors and inventions you have to have a society where kids are encouraged to be independent minded, which means they will have some ideas you don't like. Places with too much intolerance for free thinking don't have inventors unless it's coming up with clever new IED's for blowing up people who are free thinkers.

America is the best place in the world, by far, to be an inventor. At least it has been so far.

Glasses to correct red/green colorblindness have been invented for a couple of years now.

 

[BrotherBob]

You will be caught if you vape on the employers time - these folks are not fools. You have two choices:
1. Find another job.
2. Vape off the property, or off the shop floor if allowed. Here you can increase nic and clouds which may help you between breaks and lunch if you can vape on property/designated area. If there no vaping on property, you can risk asking, but it sounds like the employers mind in made up and might offend if you ask. Be careful, if you want to keep the job.

 

[sofarsogood]

You will be caught if you vape on the employers time - these folks are not fools. You have two choices:
1. Find another job.
2. Vape off the property, or off the shop floor if allowed. Here you can increase nic and clouds which may help you between breaks and lunch if you can vape on property/designated area. If there no vaping on property, you can risk asking, but it sounds like the employers mind in made up and might offend if you ask. Be careful, if you want to keep the job.

Fear not. I plan on keeping the job. But now I'm interested in stealthy vaping. It's looking to me like that's going to be a more important issue in a lot of places. It's also yet another reason for vapers to consider DIY.

I wonder now if I should be adding water to my current 60/40 pg/vg mix for the sake of flavor or texture?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Fear not. I plan on keeping the job. But now I'm interested in stealthy vaping. It's looking to me like that's going to be a more important issue in a lot of places. It's also yet another reason for vapers to consider DIY.

I wonder now if I should be adding water to my current 60/40 pg/vg mix for the sake of flavor or texture?

Water will increase the clouds........unless you use too much of it, then it ruins the vape.

 

[sonicbomb]

Exhaling into your sleeve removes about 90% of visible vapor.

 

[dannyv45]

Exhaling into your sleeve removes about 90% of visible vapor.

^^^^^^^ Best suggestion yet....