Anybody else feel like a guinea pig? How do we know it's safe?

[Carmiol]

LOL, I remember cell phone cancer!!! They even used to sell thin sticky magnets that you would stick behind the battery so it would repel the "evil" microwaves that caused brain cancer!

Sometimes I think people just make this things up. Its like "mental diseases"... Who hasnt been diagnosed ADHD or something like that. Its just an excuse to sell psych drugs. Im sure Big Pharma is behind alot of stuff like this. "Take this pill, for the rest of your life, and you will be normal"... BS in my opinion...

 

[KrisBKream]

LOL, I remember cell phone cancer!!! They even used to sell thin sticky magnets that you would stick behind the battery so it would repel the "evil" microwaves that caused brain cancer!

Sometimes I think people just make this things up. Its like "mental diseases"... Who hasnt been diagnosed ADHD or something like that. Its just an excuse to sell psych drugs. Im sure Big Pharma is behind alot of stuff like this. "Take this pill, for the rest of your life, and you will be normal"... BS in my opinion...

I agree with everything you've said, up until the psych stuff. And I only partially disagree. No doubt you're right about psych meds getting pushed through FDA way too fast. That's the case for so many drugs it makes me sick.

From a clinical side, though, psych drugs often have a strange similarity to e-cigs. As a psych nurse, I never recommend any meds to the doc unless I truly believe they will help the patient. I get no kickbacks of any sort for more meds prescribed, actually I get more paperwork to do, yuck. These meds are sometimes not tested as thoroughly as I would like, but often the benefit outweighs the potential risk. Similar to e-cigs. (Not an exact parallel, obviously, but similar)

And there are certainly many many cases of overdiagnosis, I can't argue that without my nose growing. But then again, after my mother was diagnosed with lung cancer, they discovered on the operating room table (as they were about to remove a lung) that she actually had an infection called histoplasmosis, not cancer. VERY wrong diagnosis, and a huge mistake, but an honest one. And these things happen across medical fields because medicine is an inexact and evolving science.

I guess my point is, try to remember that clinicians on the ground treating patients don't USUALLY have sinister motives. The vast majority of the colleagues I've had try to care for their patients like their own family. Even the colleagues I couldn't stand.

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[Carmiol]

That is true, and I dont want to argue about psychiatry. I just dont like psych drugs. I know one too many doctors that overprescribe psych drugs, most of the time because of "favors" from Big Pharma.

I dont think doctors have sinister motives or anything like that. I also know alot of doctors that have a very good will. I guess like in any trade, money can pervert an honest practice.

Dont want to put all meds in the same sack, but Big Pharma is looking for big bucks, and sometimes they harm people by putting it on the market without a thorough testing. Also, thanks to good practitioners that think in the patients wellbeing, this is kept at bay.

 

[kritter]

Like vocr said, forget the FDA, they also approved chantix along with other drugs that are not safe! Consider yourself a pioneer in the new universe of vaping instead of a guinea pig!

 

[RIMP]

I agree with everything you've said, up until the psych stuff. And I only partially disagree. No doubt you're right about psych meds getting pushed through FDA way too fast. That's the case for so many drugs it makes me sick.

From a clinical side, though, psych drugs often have a strange similarity to e-cigs. As a psych nurse, I never recommend any meds to the doc unless I truly believe they will help the patient. I get no kickbacks of any sort for more meds prescribed, actually I get more paperwork to do, yuck. These meds are sometimes not tested as thoroughly as I would like, but often the benefit outweighs the potential risk. Similar to e-cigs. (Not an exact parallel, obviously, but similar)

And there are certainly many many cases of overdiagnosis, I can't argue that without my nose growing. But then again, after my mother was diagnosed with lung cancer, they discovered on the operating room table (as they were about to remove a lung) that she actually had an infection called histoplasmosis, not cancer. VERY wrong diagnosis, and a huge mistake, but an honest one. And these things happen across medical fields because medicine is an inexact and evolving science.

I guess my point is, try to remember that clinicians on the ground treating patients don't USUALLY have sinister motives. The vast majority of the colleagues I've had try to care for their patients like their own family. Even the colleagues I couldn't stand.

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+1 from a psych nurse

 

[JustaGuy]

Lady nurses, first, thanks for your input. Good to hear the view from the inside. I think what's happened is that Big Pharma has conditioned whole societies into seeking quick & convenient solutions through...surprise...pharmaceuticals. Whatever the ailment, they have a pill for that. And if there's nothing wrong, let's create a need.

I'm no spring chicken (can't even pretend to be one ). When I grew up, there was no such thing as ADHD. Kids are too energetic & short of attention because (drum roll) nature built them that way. I'd be more worried about a child who didn't bounce off walls. With smart phones, ipods, ipads & constant connectivity, how is a child not supposed to be scattered? Youth is expected to be multi-taskers and in fact encouraged to be. We mind as well diagnose every high school & college kid to have ADHD. Look at how they attend "lectures" now.

Prior to 2000, the Japanese didn't even have a word for "depression". Now they're all on pills. A cousin of mine was diagnosed with depression when her brother and mother died months apart. 25 years later, she's still on that pill, and still fragile. Something's not right. One of my aunts was diagnosed, got on the pill, briefly got off but thought of suicide, is back on it now.

I'm with Cap. Kirk from Star Trek V - The Final Frontier (way OT) -

"You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!"

And I promised myself I wasn't going to rant. I need a pill.

 

[KrisBKream]

Spoken like someone who isn't face to face with genuine mental and emotional disorders each day. And isn't seeing patients go from the correctional system into healthy family lives. These disorders are real, even if they're handed out too often and medicated too quickly. Anecdotal evidence only leads to poor assumptions.

Case in point? I'm no lady

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[Carmiol]

These disorders are real, even if they're handed out too often and medicated too quickly.

Thats exactly what I disagree with in psychiatry. Ive never seen a person "cured" with psych drugs. Ever read the "side effects" from any psych drug, its kinda scarry. If I had any mental disorder, I'd probably would wanna stick with that one, than having those side effects.

 

[emus]

I love this drug commercial:

"Some doctors believe the benefits may outweigh the risks"

That's gotta make you wanna put down that burger and get a prescription ASAP.

 

[guido61]

Beside the PG and VG, an e-liquid contains also some molecules used for flavoring.
Those molecules are known to be safe if ingested, but yet no one knows what happens when inhaled as welol as nobody know yet the effects of PG and VG.
So yes, we all are guinea pigs but the small studies around are pointing to the safe zone compared to the old stinky analogs.
I guess we only have to wait.

 

[KrisBKream]

Have you ever seen lupus cured? Diabetes? Asthma? Epilepsy? Multiple sclerosis? Parkinson's disease? Coronary artery disease? Of course not. They're chronic conditions. There is no treatment yet known to cure any of these ailments. But I still insist my wife takes her insulin. Should she not? After all, it's not curing her, it's only treating the symptoms. Maybe I should run that by her and see how well that goes over. And my kids at work, I better cut out their asthma inhalers along with their psychotropic meds. It's not like it's making them any better, after all.

Where does post traumatic stress disorder fall into your theory? I know quite a few veterans who would take great offense at being told they shouldn't get treatment because they can't be cured. And war vets aren't alone. I see children every day with stories so tragic that you'd never see them on tv or movies and I'd risk a ban if I detailed any of them.

Sorry if I'm a little touchy about this, but I work not-for-profit helping children that the system has abandoned because the public believes their genuine disorders aren't real or worth treating. I suffer low pay and my family goes without a lot of luxury, and it's ok with us because I get to improve the lives of children every single day.

Now back to my usual middle ground. Big pharma has motives that makes me sick, including their psychotropic divisions. There are some FDA approved medications that I refuse to administer, and the doctor I work with refuses to prescribe them anyway. Every time we add a medication, it's after careful observation and deliberation.

And here's the kicker, and I can't imagine anyone could not approve of this. The primary method of treatment where I work is NOT medication. We rely on individual counseling, group therapy, recreational therapy, spiritual life, and less formal things like building healthy positive relationships with adults and modeling healthy coping skills for the children. But the fact is, some of these kids have been so abused, and they are so mentally ill, that they need the assistance of medication to be able to benefit from those other wonderful things. We use what is needed, we monitor them for effects as well as side effects, and we watch as children who once couldn't hold a conversation without becoming violent or couldn't sleep through the night without having terrible flashback nightmares wake them up... get BETTER! They are not cured. But through many different approaches including medication, they are able to cope with life's hardships and go on to lead lives as happy as anyone can expect to have.

The biggest problem I see with psychiatry isn't big pharma, although I'd love to punch them in their collective faces. It's a misinformed public that has skewed or unrealistic expectations. On the flip side of the "mental disorders aren't real" coin, there are the people who want to go to a psychiatrist, spill their guts, get a prescription, take a magic pill, and be happy. Then they wonder why their magic pill doesn't make them happy, so they ask for more. And doctors who are burned out and overworked don't have the time or resources to get a full clinical picture, and far far too many of them just approve more drugs. Drugs that probably weren't needed in the first place! Now you've got doped up idiots running around, still miserable, suffering from the interactions of 7 different drugs on maxed out doses, and they're not only still unhappy, they're worse! This is the picture of modern psychiatry, and from THIS perspective, yep. I agree. It's a broken system.

But here's the secret: drugs don't make people happy. Not news to anyone here, I hope, but it is news to lots of people trying to feel better. Psychotropic medications, when used correctly, simply make the patient ABLE to improve their own lives. But it is always ultimately up to the patient.

I'm really sorry to go so and so longwinded. It's just that I have hope. I know how screwed up mental healthcare is, but I also know it is needed. I wish I could fix what is wrong with modern psychiatry, but I don't have the power to do so. Instead, I practice it in a way that I know works. And I hold out hope that just as so many other fields of healthcare did, mental healthcare will improve and become a benefit to all the people who need it.

 

[illillillillilli]

I don't know about being a guinea pig. Guinea pigs are forced to consume, I chose to vape. Kind of like a stoner chooses to smoke pot. Both not regulated by the FDA. New studies even claim ......... attacks brain cancer cells. Needs to be FDA regulated, right? My only concern really is the raise of prices of e-juice to a point where it becomes cheaper in short term to smoke analogs. Sounds like a concern of a stoner. Anybody else see this correlation?

Life is a disease it has a 100% mortality rate. The thing is we just can't plan everything out so nothing is unexpected. Life is one big experiment. If we dont experiment with life, we might not have the joys of tomorrow. Then again we might not have some of the hardships either. But cant complain if you choose not to improve them either. If vaping makes you feel better than smoking, vape on!

 

[benetay]

I was talking to a friend few days back and i said "The govt firstly tax our analog so much and yet people are still on analogs, when they are late in their years health care is highly expensive too". In other words, Tax the addicts and eventually tax the dead.

I'm not sure how analogs can be cheaper over here. It is going to be 12 USD (converted) per pack. That is $360 for PAD/month. So i guess it depends and it is relative to where we are and how we perceive it. For me, it will be much cheaper. Certainly. I don't mind being a guinea pig, regardless.

I simply know, even if it proves to be wrong.

Cheers!

 

[Carmiol]

Down here it is only $2 for a pack of analogs. Only $60 for PAD/month. I still choose to vape!

 

[JustaGuy]

Spoken like someone who isn't face to face with genuine mental and emotional disorders each day. And isn't seeing patients go from the correctional system into healthy family lives. These disorders are real, even if they're handed out too often and medicated too quickly. Anecdotal evidence only leads to poor assumptions.

Case in point? I'm no lady

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First of all, my apologies for the generalization, Mr. Nurse, an honorable profession for any gender, honest mistake. In my post, I did offer upfront that you possess the view from the inside, which I do not presume. My comments are about children and society as a whole (and my distrust of Big Pharma), not those with special needs you are treating. Of course people get ill and need treatment. And I'm glad to hear your institution deploy methods other than drugs. I also did not declare all medicine useless. Of course there are many beneficial uses for people suffering (sorry to hear about your wife). Are you generalizing my post and me?

However, please consider that with any profession, views from both within and without can nevertheless be valid. I eat groceries, live in a house, drive a car and use a computer. I do not assume I know the vantage points of the farmer, contractor, UAW worker, or software engineer; but I know how these things impact my life and that is this "user's" reality. An e. coli outbreak, a stuck accelerator, sinking foundation and faulty bank transaction can do me harm, not to compare your profession to those.

One doctor, who's helped me many times, gave me bad information once and had me worried my heart was in trouble, was not, but did raise my heart rate. Another doctor, on first visit, told me to quit smoking and take "sample" cessation pills, could have been Chantix. I told her I did not want to merely substitute one drug with another. The news of Chantix causing suicidal thoughts came out years later. Both doctors meant well, but why are drugs that can "possibly cause suicides" prescribed to people, some emotionally fragile? It gives me pause. As you said, other folks may readily welcome, in fact seek, such treatments, Big Pharma marketing at work. They do not know better and need the help of medical professionals to make good decisions.

I see where you're coming from. And I've hijacked this thread enough, will say no more. Sorry, OP.

 

[KrisBKream]

Are you generalizing my post and me?

Guilty as charged. Well, that and responding to multiple posts and posters, but generalizing either way, yes. My bad Sorry, and thank you for your polite and intelligent response

Good point about the thread jacking. Also my bad. <quietly backs out of thread>

 

[JustaGuy]

Guilty as charged. Well, that and responding to multiple posts and posters, but generalizing either way, yes. My bad Sorry, and thank you for your polite and intelligent response

Good point about the thread jacking. Also my bad. <quietly backs out of thread>

On second thought, we may not be that far OT, since we are discussing guinea pigs of sorts, which applies to many products. All's well that ends well...my admiration for the difficult work you do, you're a better man than I (wouldn't be able to hack it). Best wishes to you and wife. Hope they find the cure.

Ok, now I'm done.