Authentic Joyetech eGo C versus knock off eG C - Prices

[txtumbleweed]

The authentic Joye or Janty users crack me up. They pay double the price for the same product just to claim theirs is authentic. Now they are complaining about knockoffs costing almost as much as their authentic ones. A good example is the new Janty Puromiser ce2 carto sells for 18.99 and you can get a Riva-T for 4.99 and they are both very similar except the Riva is getting better reviews. If you just bought a Janty Neo Battery and carto it costs 48.00 and if you buy a Riva Battery and carto it costs 18.00 so I sure don't see them being close to the same price.
Same goes for their 650 auto battery it sells for 29.00 and you can buy an Echo 650 auto for 13.00.

 

[EJH]

Look at it from another perspective: Joyetech's costs for materials and manufacturing can't be that much different than a manufacturer of a Joyetech clone...parts is parts. Why does Joyetech sell the ego-c for $80 when it costs, say, $30 to make the product? ($30 is a completely made up number, btw)

The answer: Because they can. As long as someone, anyone, is willing to spend X amount of dollars for a product, then X is the "correct" price for said item. A free and open market will always eventually generate a "correct" price.

If the ego clones work properly and give the purchaser what they expect for a price that customer is willing to spend, the vendor/manufacturer will continue selling it for that price. If a product is shoddy or doesn't perform as the customer expects, that manufacturer will either change the product or stop producing the product or face going out of business for lack of customers. (Obviously there is a lot more involved, but I don't want to re-write a textbook about this )

Simply put, a healthy free market is very efficient at weeding out bad products and rewarding good ones.

 

[orson]

Simply put, a healthy free market is very efficient at weeding out bad products and rewarding good ones.

Only if the market can tell which product is which.

You're making a whole boat load of assumptions about the knock-off versions to say that it costs the same amount to make it that it costs Joyetech to make theirs.

How do you know they don't have different costs based on manufacturing quality?

I'm making assumptions too, but I'll stick to genuine Joyetech products.

 

[Toronnah]

Look at it from another perspective: Joyetech's costs for materials and manufacturing can't be that much different than a manufacturer of a Joyetech clone...parts is parts. Why does Joyetech sell the ego-c for $80 when it costs, say, $30 to make the product?


Joyetech doesn't sell them at $80 (or whatever price). The retailer does. Pricing is based on margins, cost of overhead and what competitors sell them for. If many retailers sell at $80, very few will undercut price to $50.

There is also a lot of supply and demand. As ling as vapers are willing to pay $80, they will continue to retail at that price.


Same goes for cell phones, computers, TVs, coffee makers, etc

 

[EJH]

You're making a whole boat load of assumptions about the knock-off versions to say that it costs the same amount to make it that it costs Joyetech to make theirs.

How do you know they don't have different costs based on manufacturing quality?

Never said it costs the same. Just saying the actual cost to make a unit of product for Joyetech and the cost for another producer of a clone product can not be too much different. Similar products have similar amounts of raw materials, are fabricated on similar machines, etc. Logically and literally, there has to be a bare minimum cost and a maximum cost for a product and clones of that product. Sure, that price will vary depending on a lot of factors...The supply chain guy in one company might be the the brother-in-law to the steel mill's seller and is able to get a better price...the possibilities and variables are too numerous to guess. But the base cost of a unit from one manufacturer and the next will probably be within a few percentage points of each other (unless there are some shenanigans involved).

I'm making assumptions too, but I'll stick to genuine Joyetech products.

Brand loyalty, sticking with a brand because they provide you with product you expect for your money, is a good example how the market rewards quality products. Repeat business is one of the things that the makers of chintzy products rarely enjoy.

Joyetech doesn't sell them at $80 (or whatever price). The retailer does.

I stand corrected.

Pricing is based on margins, cost of overhead and what competitors sell them for. If many retailers sell at $80, very few will undercut price to $50.

There is also a lot of supply and demand. As ling as vapers are willing to pay $80, they will continue to retail at that price.


Same goes for cell phones, computers, TVs, coffee makers, etc

Right, that's what I meant by the "correct" price. Though the market is never really right or wrong...it just is, hence the quotes around correct.

 

[Toronnah]

I stand corrected.

No need. That was just setting up my point that this really is a retailer issue more than a manufacturer issue.

 

[Toronnah]

... Though the market is never really right or wrong...it just is, ...

Very well said.

 

[Jammin]

CheeMiss, after reading through this thread (more like skimming) it seems that your posts are fueled by too much hysteria and emotion to the point that 1) the reader can't even take you serious and 2) you can't get your point across adequately because you are too fired up to make a lot of sense.

You claim to be an expert on marketing, yet in turn use the term "price gouging" and "extortion" in a totally incorrect context.

Your orig post is not worth all that hysteria. You don't like the prices set, don't buy it. There is no extortion. Your hand is not forced to by ANY e-cig product or accessory.

 

[Jammin]

You really need to read a book on economics. What you consider high prices does not constitute price gouging.

Toronnah, WTF does reading a book have to do with the reality of "Price Gouging"? Seriously what!!!???

If our builders, car manufacturers or anyone selling any item, wants to create a FALSE supply and demand, they will use what ever means possible. And the best way to do that is "Hype". I should know, I was crowned "Queen of Hype" back in the 80's.

Now, are you trying to tell me that reading a book on economics is going to determine what I have to do to create that "hype". I should say not!!! Until you work in that industry, then all you have to bring to the table is talk & books, which does not bring in the big bucks.......talk to people in that line of work. Show them your economics books and they will laugh you out of the business.

Getting back to the actual reality of true costs. For the sake of argument, lets continue to use housing. The true value of a house is clearly written on the Tax Assessment roll. Just bcos a person wants to "OVER PAY" for a property during a bidding war, does NOT mean that a bank will finance the purchase. Why? Bcos that is NOT the true value of the property. A bank appraiser is sent out to evaluate the property. The buyer has to have a heft down payment to make that "bidding war property" dream a reality. The banks will not lend monies over & above the "true value" of the property, no matter how much more the buyers are prepared to pay. The buyers need to increase their down payment.

I'm sorry, but I am not expressing myself very well right now. My mind is on two important issues. My friends daughter, whom I have known since she was 3 yrs old, has FINALLY been diagnosed with a very rare disorder. Only 70 people on the planet suffer from Mitochondrial neurogastrointestinal encephalopathy (MNGIE). Cristina's body is starving her to death!
And I just returned from hospital tests for my own health issues. I have a lot on my plate right now & my brains are on numb mode, and I sound very unprofessional right now, yet I still have to find a "safe & poly filler free" ecig for my 87 yr old mom & myself due to our poor lungs. If you don't mind, I no longer wish to debate the issue of "price gouging" of e-cigs, that sell for under $5.00 wholesale and are being sold for $70+ dollars retail. It's price gouging.....plain & simple. $30 - $40. is a reasonable mark-up for them.

Maybe you can help: Cristina has been on our local news yesterday & today. The only thing that can help us save Cristina's life is a bone marrow transplant. Pls read Cristina's story in link below and pass to all you know. For Cristina's sake.
Thank you!

Helping Cristina - A Canadian - US - Italian Bone Marrow Donor Drive

Your friend's daughter seems a much more worthwhile issue than worrying about the price of knockoffs. I hope she gets the treatment she needs.

There are MANY choices when it comes to e-cigs. You just have to research the ones that are right for you. I have been vaping for two years and have had no issues with the supplier I purchase from. Reasonable prices, great customer service. I couldn't care less about the ones selling expensive knock offs because they are not getting any of my money. Plain and simple.

 

[ThinkGeoffrey]

@ThinkGeoffrey - You sound like a spoilt child, who knows nothing of business. Misleading the public & over charging for knockoffs is NOT good business practise. And yes, we should all be making everyone aware of anyone doing this.

The newspapers have of late, printed many "beware of knockoffs" articles. Nuff said!

Well I guess you could call me a spoiled man not a child at 42 years of age. My family tells me I'm next to impossible to shop for due to the fact that if I want some thing I buy it.
In regards to not knowing business I have been running my own successful business since 1997 as well as having graduated collage with Business degree. I agree with you 100% on not misleading the public to sell your product.

Name calling is not a sign of maturity nor is it a professional way of clearly conveying your message!!!!!

 

[orson]

Never said it costs the same. Just saying the actual cost to make a unit of product for Joyetech and the cost for another producer of a clone product can not be too much different.

And I'm still taking issue with that statement, you're assuming the costs are the same because you're assuming the same things are going into the product.

If, for example, Joyetech is either purchasing a better battery with better chip protection circuitry or manufacturing a better battery with better chip protection circuitry then their costs could be significantly higher.

I'm assuming they are and so I'm willing to pay more for their product.

 

[Jammin]

...snip
You clearly do not understand basic retailing.

She sure doesn't!

 

[swedishfish]

@swedishfish Thank you, I have been informed of that on a few threads. But that still does not help in the case of knockoffs selling for the same or very near the same price, does it? (check out the comment made by Governa, in my comment above.) Is she/he or isn't she/he paying for and getting the real thing?The only way to stop this is to spread the word & help us all stay more informed. The way I look at it, if we have to pay $69 - $79 for a knockoff, then we should be ordering DIRECT from a China manufacturer, placing a minimum order for 10 kits at $10 or less per kit (in some places). It's much cheaper that way for all of us & we get many more extra parts to make up for the parts that don't work. Now that I finally know that authentic suppliers are listed on the Joyetech website, I will look at only purchasing from those listed. I better check out the Janty web site to see if they too list their Authorized sellers.

I'm not thrilled about buying something that doesn't work either. I don't know if you can make any sort of distinction as far as what's authentic and what's not as far as pvs made in China. Copyright laws are pretty much non-existent there. I just buy from the supplier with the best price and best warranty and hope for the best. All you can do really, plus read lots of reviews. Personally, I think the whole tank thing should still be in the planning stages. In theory they sound great but I don't know if the C is any better than the A or B. It was a fail for me.

You may be better suited for a mod. Most are hand-made (not the electrical components) and most have a great warranty. I don't know if there are any mod manuf in Canada, but you might want to look into a juice feeder type mod. I have a Reo and love it but there are other great juice feeders out there. They cost more but like someone else said, pay once, cry once. If you didn't like it, you can sell it for practically what you paid for it. Just load it up with juice, get an atty and drip tip and your good to go. Don't have to use cartomizers at all if you can't/don't want to.
reosmods.com

Old Goat also makes a juice feeder. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...2-old-goat-3-7-bottomfeeder-sale-25-00-a.htmlThere are others in the supplier's sub-forum. Might be your best bet.

 

[PaporPlas]

I'm not thrilled about buying something that doesn't work either. I don't know if you can make any sort of distinction as far as what's authentic and what's not as far as pvs made in China. Copyright laws are pretty much non-existent there. I just buy from the supplier with the best price and best warranty and hope for the best. All you can do really, plus read lots of reviews. Personally, I think the whole tank thing should still be in the planning stages. In theory they sound great but I don't know if the C is any better than the A or B. It was a fail for me.

You may be better suited for a mod. Most are hand-made (not the electrical components) and most have a great warranty. I don't know if there are any mod manuf in Canada, but you might want to look into a juice feeder type mod. I have a Reo and love it but there are other great juice feeders out there. They cost more but like someone else said, pay once, cry once. If you didn't like it, you can sell it for practically what you paid for it. Just load it up with juice, get an atty and drip tip and your good to go. Don't have to use cartomizers at all if you can't/don't want to.
reosmods.com

Old Goat also makes a juice feeder. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...2-old-goat-3-7-bottomfeeder-sale-25-00-a.htmlThere are others in the supplier's sub-forum. Might be your best bet.

Yep, what she said! : )