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AW 20A 2200mAh Button-Top 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 15A battery

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Aug 27, 2015.

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  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Tested at 10A-25A constant current. This cell was purchased from RTDVapor and donated for testing. To prevent any confusion with the eGo-type "batteries", I use the term "cell" here to refer to a single 18650, 26650, etc.


    Disclaimer
    The conclusions and recommendations I make based on these tests are only my personal opinion. Carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.

    Testing batteries at their limits is dangerous and should never, ever, be attempted by anyone who has not thoroughly studied the dangers involved and how to minimize them. My safety precautions are the ones I have selected to take and you should not assume they will protect you if you attempt to do any testing. Do the research and create your own testing methods and safety precautions.

    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg


    Bottom Line
    In my opinion, this is only a 15A continuous discharge current (CDR) button-top cell. I recommend not using it above 20A as it runs at a very high temperature at that level.


    Test Results
    image.jpg


    Comments
    • At 10A it reached almost 2100mAh. This is good performance for a 2200mAh-rated cell.
    • At 15A the maximum temperature reached 77°C. This is average for a cell operating at its CDR.
    • At 15A the AW 2200mAh reaches almost 1100mAh down to 3.2V. The Samsung 25R reaches about 1600mAh.
    • At 20A the maximum temperature reached 89°C. This is way too high for 20A to be the CDR. It only had about 50% of the capacity of a 25R down to 3.2V. In my opinion this is a 15A cell.
    • At 25A the temperature rose to my safety limit of 100°C and the discharge was stopped. Cells with a CDR of 20A can usually be discharged at 25A without hitting this limit.
    • Five additional cycles at 20A showed no signs of damage. But the 89°C max temperature at this current level is much too high to be able to set a CDR of 20A. It reduces your safety margin too much. I am setting a CDR of 15A for this cell.
    • To see how other cells have tested and how hard you can safely push them, check out the links in my signature.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  2. WharfRat1976

    WharfRat1976 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 31, 2014
    Austin, Texas
    For sure. This is a TootlePuffer battery.
     
  3. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Yeah, I only use these in my Provari's. :) Great battery for the application.
     
  4. kkiet

    kkiet Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 14, 2015
    Milwaukee, Wi
    This is the one I use.
     
  5. WharfRat1976

    WharfRat1976 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 31, 2014
    Austin, Texas
    Mooch, how do they get away with labeling it as a 20 amp batt? I thought RTD was beyond reproach with their products?
     
  6. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    AW could have a different set of standards for what constitutes a 20A battery. Not very many rewrappers consider temperature when selecting a rating, but I don't know if AW does or not.

    But this AW only had about 50% of the capacity of the Samsung 25R at 20A down to 3.2V. And it was hot.

    I was also very surprised at my test results. Especially considering that the 1600mAh I recently tested was right on the rating. Dampfakkus.ge had even worse results in his testing of the 2200mAh. But, @Morandir835 got better results I did.

    When Dampfakkus.ge retested the 2200 with two new cells, they tested a bit better but he had very different results for each of them. Considering the wide range of results from three testers there's something going on. Whether it's different cells being rewrapped, different grades of cells being used, or something else, I have no idea.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Morandir835

    Morandir835 Idiot Guru ECF Veteran

    Jan 2, 2011
    Outside DC
    I haven't tested these batteries yet due to the fact I only have one mod that can use flat top cells, so while I can do the initial tests doing the long term will be truly that (only use the mechanical at home). I know my buddy @Roccov has ordered some and is getting good results with his, but he hasn't put them through the amperage tests. I can say all 4 batts I've gotten of the AW 2200mah have performed within 1% of each other.
     
  8. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Ack...my apologies. I thought I saw some discharge graphs for this cell that you posted. My 2200's were button tops.

    My two were essentially identical, but I got very poor performance from both. Looking forward to @Roccov's amp testing if he gets a chance.
     
  9. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
  10. Morandir835

    Morandir835 Idiot Guru ECF Veteran

    Jan 2, 2011
    Outside DC
    Sorry sir, my confusion. Not sure how I read they were the 3000mah AW cells. Massive brain fart on my part.
     
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  11. Morandir835

    Morandir835 Idiot Guru ECF Veteran

    Jan 2, 2011
    Outside DC
    Ran a test this morning at 20A just to see what my max temperature was. Room temp was 24C/75F. These cells are at 177 and 178 charges respectively-

    Cell one (178)- Max temp 58C/136F
    Cell two (177)- Max Temp 59C/138F

    I got my cells direct from RTD Vapor. I've had zero heat or performance issues with them.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Thanks for running that test!

    Just to confirm...constant-current discharge?
    How are you measuring temperature? IR gun, thermocouple, thermistor? Wrap on or off? Measuring at the middle of the cell or towards one end?
     
  13. Morandir835

    Morandir835 Idiot Guru ECF Veteran

    Jan 2, 2011
    Outside DC
    Constant current discharge sir. IR gun, wrap on, Middle of the battery.
     
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  14. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Thanks!

    We're using very different methods to measure temperature but I wouldn't expect that large a difference between our results. I"ve never seen an 18650 run at that low a temperature at 20A before. Typically it's around 75°C, ranging up to 83°C for some cells.

    I'm pretty sure this is the case but I wanted to double-check...is the field-of-view of your IR gun smaller than the battery width at the distance you're measuring from?
     
  15. Morandir835

    Morandir835 Idiot Guru ECF Veteran

    Jan 2, 2011
    Outside DC
    It isn't, but I'll borrow my buddy's to check what his gets in comparison to mine sir. On cells rated for 20A that actually can deliver it usually see in between 58-68C.
     
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  16. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Wow, that's better than the numbers in some datasheets. Do you have temp measurements for the VTC3, VTC4, or VTC5?

    I would ask if you could check something with yours first. Measure right up near the battery with yours, just to check if there is a difference.
     
  17. Froth

    Froth Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2014
    Chipotle.
    AW has been two steps behind since early 2014 IMO, they may offer a quality 'safe' battery cell but they're not winning me over, the Samsung 25R destroys the AW in almost every respect. Would like to see AW come out with something that gets as much attention as the 1600mah 24A 18650 did when it was released, but alas I doubt that day is coming.

    Edit: Question for you Mooch, when it comes to temperatures of the cells are you measuring with infrared or a contact probe?
     
  18. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Contact sensing.
    Type-k thermocouple placed mid-cell, held down with Kapton tape. Good contact confirmed with a loupe. I normally use thermal epoxy when testing a client's cell but at $13 a piece for the thermocouples I'm not doing that for all these cells. :)
    A lot of variables to deal with when using infrared (field-of-view, emissivity, reflections) so I prefer contact sensing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Froth

    Froth Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2014
    Chipotle.
    Damn, going deep using a Loupe to confirm contact. Excellent stuff, as always!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Morandir835

    Morandir835 Idiot Guru ECF Veteran

    Jan 2, 2011
    Outside DC
    I have a few theories on why we have different results Mooch sir. I see from your graphs you run the batteries down below 3.2v, in fact you go past 3.0v. I have my hobby charger set to cut off at 3.15v. I think this why we're seeing such a temperature difference. I don't like pushing any cell down below that when pulling 15+ amps from it, no matter what the manufacturer claim is for lowest safe discharge voltage. I learned the hard way with a venting sony VCT3 back in the day that failed at 20A when it hit 2.88v (rated to go to 2.5v).

    Just completed the another test run using my biddy's IR thermometer, same two cells just one more charge on each-

    Cell one (179)- Max Temp 59C/138F
    Cell two (178)- Max Temp 60C/140F

    Both cut off at 3.15V on load. I guarantee if I ran them past that would see temperatures much closer to yours sir.
     
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