Batteries and Safety

Discussion in 'IkenVape' started by VaporMadness, Apr 11, 2010.

Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. VaporMadness

    VaporMadness Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Location:
    CA, USA
    I've been trying to get a handle on how "safe" battery MODs are given the type of failure modes that various battery chemistry exhibit (some of which are explosive!!!). I found some good info about Lithium Manganese (LiMn chemistry like that used in the AW IMR batts) here... GM Battery

    After reading thru what I've read. I think the ONLY type of batt I'd be comfortable with using with a MOD are these LiMn batteries. I expect to be carrying a MOD almost all of the time, 24 x 7 365 days a year. Sooner or later... I can expect a battery to fail.
     
  2. Iken

    Iken Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Location:
    PA,USA
    Isn't that the truth! Thank you for this great post Mr Madness!
    Honestly though, the safety of batteries relies on the cooperative support of the user. I would judge the post above to be meant for people that are brand new to the art of excessive battery use. I personally used Cr2 batteries and their unprotected chargers from April of last year towards November/December with only one mishap. A piece of the packaging from the battery came off. When I had several in my pocket enclosed, one met contact to the bare side of the battery and instantaneously heated up to extreme temperatures. Now that was a sight! Ahh The Chicken dance was reinvented that faithful day. :D
     
  3. Drozd

    Drozd Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Location:
    NW Ohio
    I've actually been working on putting together a quite detailed discourse on batteries, their efficiency, and safety...
    With a focus on how to figure out the Max Drain rate of batteries and how to figure out the amp draw of different atties at different voltages and then relate that to wattage produced at that voltage with that atty as well...
    Just to see what batteries we can use without overstressing the batteries past their max drain rates...
    The preliminary results of the math is that there's just a handful of batteries that can handle any atty we throw at them without going into an overstressed over max drain rate state...
    Those are:
    for 3.7V... just about any 3.7V 18650 or the 3.7V AW 16340 IMR highdrain LiMN
    for 6V....the AW 3V LiFePo4 16340 size (500mAh) (x2)
    for 7.4V...again the 3.7V AW 16340 IMR highdrain LiMN (x2)

    and that's it... everything else depending on which atty used and at which voltage can be overstressed..

    Then I'm going on to show how you can use the amp draw versus the max drain rate of the batteries to get a rough idea of just how long the batteries will last (# of button presses) given an average of x second button presses...

    EDIT: Here's the first quarter of that...a basic atty vs Voltage Amp draw table... and a basic wattage table.....#s in bold correlate to that 8-10W so called "sweet spot"
    [​IMG]

    max drain rate of your batteries is figured by their mAh rating * their C rating /1000...it should be more than the amp draw for your atty/voltage combination in the table...
    (ultrafire C rating is 1.5C, AW C rating is 2C, AW C rating for 16340 is 8C, AW C raitng for 18650 is 10C, AW C raitng for their LiFePo4 is also 10C, tenergy lifepo is max drain rate <.55A, all other Li-Ion can be assumed to have a C raitng of 1 unless otherwise noted)
     
  4. VaporMadness

    VaporMadness Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Location:
    CA, USA
    Thanx for assembling this data. I look forward to seeing your specific findings on the batteries when you post them.

    And I'm glad the AW 16340 IMRs pass your tests :)
     
  5. Iken

    Iken Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Location:
    PA,USA
    And Stickied!
    Thank you Mr Madness for making this very informal thread and a Thank you to Drozd for your contribution. :)
     
  6. grimmer255

    grimmer255 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Location:
    somewhere out there......
    wow nice Draw table.... can you also add in AW 14500 batteries? I'm rather curious about those on LR 510 atties.
     
  7. Drozd

    Drozd Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Location:
    NW Ohio
    well looking at that amp draw table a 1.5Ω atty at 3.7V would be an amp draw of 2.47A

    now the AW 14500..
    750mAh*2C/1000= 1.5A max drain rate...

    See what I mean...amp draw exceeds max drain rate...
     
  8. grimmer255

    grimmer255 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Location:
    somewhere out there......
    thanks.... thats not good... I think its going to be very hard to find batteries that will allow such abuse. I'm going to have to start looking for some better batteries.
     
  9. Drozd

    Drozd Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Location:
    NW Ohio
    Isaac said that there are AW high drain LiMN 14500s in the works...so when those come out those should take care of that..

    but until that point the only things available that can truely handle the abuse we put em through are in the 18650 size
    2 different 3V LiFePo4 in the CR123a size
    and the LiMN high drain in the CR123a size

    That's not to say that there arent other protected batteries that wont work....just that we're overstressing them and they aren't going to hold up to nearly as many charges as the manufacturers say they can...so we should pitch and replace them more frequently, expecially if they start acting "funny"..
     
  10. Switched

    Switched ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Location:
    Dartmouth, NS Canada
    Isaac and I exchanged a conversation in IkenVape Help Center - Page 3 - E-Cigarette Forum starting at post #111.

    I had posted a response to someone else's post and on as after thought, thought it didn't belong and hence deleted my post. In the mean time Isaac was responding. So we resumed were my deleted post left off.

    The conversation stemed from this Battery/charger concerns - e-Smokers-forum.com · e-Cigarette and e-Smoking discussions particular thread.

    The issue has been resolved. In order for folks to be able to access this particular info, I thought it to be more appropriate posted here under "batteries and safety" rather than have it buried in a thread that doesn't really deal with this particular matter. ECF is a big site and we often can't seem to find important information wrt this or that, that we have read.

    Although these two PDF links do not address "my" battery perse, they have apeased my suspicions wrt using the battery and charger combo.

    3.0V Li-ion RCR123A rechargeable battery
    3.0v Li-ion battery charger

    Although I believe and always endorse buying the vendors recommended batteries for his/her particular mod, sometimes they are simply out of stock, and we need to seek elsewhere. Using the data provided from the Ikenvape site, I purchased what I thought to be a good alternative (they are). What I wasn't expecting is to see a 3.0V battery come off the charger, as this is not the norm. You would normally purchase a charger with a 3.6V output for 3.0V batts, and a 4.2V output for 3.7V batts.

    So when a manufacturer changes the norm, we are often left confused, as in my case. I am not embarrassed in the least sharing this information with anyone. On the contrary, I wish more folks would, as we can all educate ourselves a little more. This vaping business is growing in leaps and bounds, and we need to keep up with all the innovations demanded by the community. I invite everyone to share their fortunes and mis-fortunes alike so we can all grow and porper together in a safe and pleasurable manner.
     
  11. whiskey

    whiskey Moved On

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Isaac will you or do you carry these yet?:confused:
     
  12. Iken

    Iken Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Location:
    PA,USA
    Hey Whiskey! You changed your photo!
    We will the moment they're finished. I believe there's only a few weeks away before they are completed in production.
     
  13. whiskey

    whiskey Moved On

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Thanks Isaac...LOL I'm always Fiddling with my avatar:2cool:
     
  14. whiskey

    whiskey Moved On

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Any update for the Imr 14500's?:2cool:
     
  15. Iken

    Iken Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Location:
    PA,USA
    Yes maa'm!
    4 days ago on the 25th, he said in about 10 days, they'll be completed :D
     
  16. Vaporologist

    Vaporologist Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Location:
    Epic Journey
    Hey Isaac,

    Who is making these batts? Is it AW? Thanks.
     
  17. Switched

    Switched ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Location:
    Dartmouth, NS Canada
    I do believe so, see post #9
     
  18. Thyestean

    Thyestean Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Nice. If the 16340 HD ones, that I just placed an order for, make as big a difference as I'm told then I'm sure I'll be looking to grab a couple 14500 ones too so it will be nice to be able to get them from you.
     
  19. WitchWay

    WitchWay Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Location:
    Texas
    Ok curiousity questions for the battery experts... this is pertaining to the AW 10440 batteries. Some are marked LIR and some are marked ICR. What does the LIR and ICR stand for? There doesn't seem to be any difference in the batteries at all, but I was just curious what the letters mean if anything.


    Thanks in advance!!! Happy Vaping!!!
     
  20. VaporMadness

    VaporMadness Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Location:
    CA, USA
    "ICR" definitely refers to the cobalt oxide chemistry, see the battery university. I've think I've seen "LIR" used as a generic acronym for "Lithium-Ion rechargeable" without really indicating a particular chemistry?

    From... What does IMR stand for/mean? - CandlePowerForums
     

Share This Page