Batteries and Safety
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Hey Vman, Yes sir. There is a highdrain 14500 floating around by an unknown manufacture, but personally, I wouldn't trust it to be official. The way I see it my friend, is that we use multiple types of batteries a few inches from our faces, probably at least 500 times a day .Unknown/generic batteries just doesn't sit well imo.
Huge difference Thye. IMR "HD" (i like that!
) when used solo is just beautiful. Think freshly charged battery with only one drop point, the end of the cycle. You'll be happy with them. 
Great! That's why I asked hoping that they are AWs. My thoughts exactly.
Huge difference Thye. IMR "HD" (i like that!
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you get less life out of the battery by stressing it.
But I was wondering if stressing a battery is less safe or not?
how safe at 18650 protected aw's if used properly?
I never over charge or undercharge, but I do take many hits back to back.
(I was a quick smoker as well...I'd be done with my cig over twice as fast as everyone else)
I've been reading up a battery safety for months, and I still feel somewhat lost but I have gained a lot of helpful info.
But I was wondering if stressing a battery is less safe or not?
how safe at 18650 protected aw's if used properly?
I never over charge or undercharge, but I do take many hits back to back.
(I was a quick smoker as well...I'd be done with my cig over twice as fast as everyone else)
I've been reading up a battery safety for months, and I still feel somewhat lost but I have gained a lot of helpful info.
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yes
yes, less safe
very safe
if the batt can handle the current draw which it can, until it has started to decline, the battery is fine. Your attys are the ones taking the greatest wear and thus longevity will be reduced.
It is better to recharge a battery when it has started to decline, than to charge it once depleted.
Ok I just finished writing a Full post then the laptop goofed up on me.
Awesome response Switcher!
Don't count out the IMR High Drain batteries. They have a solid smooth output of 4.19V making it the perfect spot for 2.0 ohmed atoms. in case of any danger the imr will immediately disable itself.
Protected Aw's are very well built batteries. >See AW is Surreal thread. For indepth photos of the added protection that goes into them. Switch nailed it beautifully when he said that the atomizers take a far worse beating than the batteries. The only down factor that has to on the battery side is the battery life is reduced by the 35% marker.
On the 2.0 series it isn't nearly as bad with the other lower variations.
It's almost the same principle of taking a standard atomizer and placing it on a 5V device. Naturally the atomizers life will be accelerated. I'm happy to report that i haven't had one atomizer from the 2.0 series fail yet.
Awesome response Switcher!
Don't count out the IMR High Drain batteries. They have a solid smooth output of 4.19V making it the perfect spot for 2.0 ohmed atoms. in case of any danger the imr will immediately disable itself.
Protected Aw's are very well built batteries. >See AW is Surreal thread. For indepth photos of the added protection that goes into them. Switch nailed it beautifully when he said that the atomizers take a far worse beating than the batteries. The only down factor that has to on the battery side is the battery life is reduced by the 35% marker.
On the 2.0 series it isn't nearly as bad with the other lower variations.
It's almost the same principle of taking a standard atomizer and placing it on a 5V device. Naturally the atomizers life will be accelerated. I'm happy to report that i haven't had one atomizer from the 2.0 series fail yet.
Oh I don't but 10C is overkill IMHO, give me longevity between recharges. That is why I opt for LI Ion over IMR in large cells. Just a personal choice. Mind you, I am not a large fan of LR anyway.
I have 1/2 spreadsheet done already which shows current draw vs voltage. The other half will be wattage vs voltage, perhaps you will be ablr to sticky or tag along the "sureal" thread.
Folks seem hell bent on wattage (result of HV) and/or low resistance for satisfaction. The latter are good factors in the equation, so is the liquid being vaped. I recently gagged an HV/LR vaper with one of my mixes, which does posses a kick, but not terribly so IMMHO. He gagged and had to cut it 25-30%. One of the nicest aspects of roll your own. The ability to custom your liquids to suit your needs, and I have achieved that
My demon chaser, is a wonderful vape with beautiful taste and lots of vapour. It is an 80/20 mix at 30mg. 2-4 hits is all that is required to send the most persistent demon packing
I no longer use this mix for pleasure as I do not want to get accustomed to it. I absolutely love it. I use to vape it 18-24mg @3.7V but 6V (5 under load) is where this liquid really shines. I am for all intense and purpose a 3.1-3.7V vaper, and reserve the HV/LR moments as demon chasers. I will be investing in some IMR 16430s down the rd though, just not sizes above that.BTW IMHO 5V (under load) is where it is at, which the lizard delivers. Many are finding this out (5V) and are downsizing as well. We are going to be hearing more and more of this as time goes on, I'm sure
IMRs may be overkill at larger battery sizes, but in the smaller form factors, its essential if you're interested in more satisfying wattage.
It's all about wattage, a measure of electrical power, the product of voltage and current. It seems the std ecig models are a little underpowered for many vapers (certainly true for me). There are two ways to increase the wattage, either increase the voltage (the HV route), or increase the current (the LR route). I've chosen the LR route because I prefer smaller lighter MODs (like the short bodied Chameleon) and prefer to avoid stacking batteries (just a little safer). When going the LR route, you need a power supply that can provide the additional current. This is where the small form factor 16340 IMRs really shine. They can keep up with the increased current demand of LR attys where as the ICRs in the smaller battery sizes (16340/14500/10440) simply can't.
Another dimension is charge capacity, how long the battery lasts between charges. IMR isn't as good on this dimension as ICR, but two AW 16340 IMRs comfortably get me thru the day. I need to carry a small dropper bottle of liquid regardless of battery capacity, and the extra 16340 battery easily fits in my carrying case. Plus, I've got chargers at home and work.
Added all up... the combination of a small high-drain battery MOD + LR attys is right for me.
Definitely looking forward to seeing the spreadsheet because I get a kick out of this stuff. Are you measuring different batteries (sizes and chemistries) under different loads to fill this sheet out?
It's all about wattage, a measure of electrical power, the product of voltage and current. It seems the std ecig models are a little underpowered for many vapers (certainly true for me). There are two ways to increase the wattage, either increase the voltage (the HV route), or increase the current (the LR route). I've chosen the LR route because I prefer smaller lighter MODs (like the short bodied Chameleon) and prefer to avoid stacking batteries (just a little safer). When going the LR route, you need a power supply that can provide the additional current. This is where the small form factor 16340 IMRs really shine. They can keep up with the increased current demand of LR attys where as the ICRs in the smaller battery sizes (16340/14500/10440) simply can't.
Another dimension is charge capacity, how long the battery lasts between charges. IMR isn't as good on this dimension as ICR, but two AW 16340 IMRs comfortably get me thru the day. I need to carry a small dropper bottle of liquid regardless of battery capacity, and the extra 16340 battery easily fits in my carrying case. Plus, I've got chargers at home and work.
Added all up... the combination of a small high-drain battery MOD + LR attys is right for me.
Definitely looking forward to seeing the spreadsheet because I get a kick out of this stuff. Are you measuring different batteries (sizes and chemistries) under different loads to fill this sheet out?
Unequivocally true.
*SNIP
Partially correct, I am not knit picking here. Anyone who stresses a battery regardless if stacked or not, creates the potential for catastrophic failure. Many are using LR attys with the improper batteries. e.g using an LR atty on a 10440 batt, is simply asking for trouble. The power comsumption far exceeds what the battery is capable of. Many folks do not listen to this observation and feel safe because the battery is not stacked.
What truly amazes me is that folks never batted an eye spending $12/pack (Canada) for smokes, vape at about $1.50 a day and are tooooooooo cheap to spend an extra dollar on a safer battery, or buy a device that meets their vaping requirements.
... and hence a measured trade off. But I believe that you should get a bit better duration with IMRs than you would with LI Ions with LR attys (1.5 Ohms). With regular attys, runnignwithin design specification, then yes the LI Ion wins.
It is complete. no I am not comparing batteries, that would prove futile IMHO as ratings are mostly inaccurate as we know, but the charts will provide sufficient info for the average individual to make an educated decision wrt his/her battery needs. That being said...
I will conduct a test using an IMR16340 and an AW 16340 (RCR123A) at different resistances, read: Low resistance 1.5 Ohms and stock 2.2 Ohms 510 attys. That is as far as I am willing to take the test. Anyone can feel free to conduct it further.
so would it be safer to use an aw 18650 protected with a standard 510 joye atty (non-LR) or safer to use a 14500 aw protected batt with standard 510joye atty (non-LR)?
the battery isn't stressed at all with the 18650....correct?
so the 18650 would be safer.....correct?
But also the 18650 is 3times bigger than a 14500 and the vent/explosion would be 3times bigger....(in the very rare occasion that it would happen)
EDIT: just to show people the power of these 18650 in the event of an explosion check out this link
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=280909
a word of advice, don't charge your batts overnight.
some chargers have trickle charge and will keep charging AFTER the green light is on.
That is bad.
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the 14500 with reg atty is on the fence. I am too tired to research it's capacity. A reg 16340 would be a better choice
yes previously answered
see my response
NewWorld,
I am not trying to be ignorant here but this is the second thread that you have posted incomplete or incorrect data. I do fully understand that this is not the clearest subject (batteries) to most (myself included), but IMHO you need to read the entire thread and not just snip pits of it.
I will answer your last comment first. Yes all batteries are dangerous. The batt was installed in a sealed metal flashlight which = PIPE BOMB
- He used an unprotected charger
- He used unprotected batteries
- He stacked batteries of dissimilar voltages.
<<He charged two cells overnight, then charged the third cell the next day. When all three cells were fully charged he put them in the light and turned it on. It exploded almost immediately.>>
- Stacked batteries should always remain as pairs
- Should be marked top and bottom in a set and go into the device in the same fashion always.
- Should always be charged as pairs
- Only use PROTECTED batteries when stacking or using in series
- Only use chargers with overcharging protection.
- When in doubt, it is safer to toss the battery than experience catastrophic failure
- Everyone that vapes should possess a multi-meter, especially those who vape HV and stack batteries
- When in doubt pull out the multi-meter
I will update both subs latter with the chart I made today. But I will no longer continue to answer post in different subs and across different forums. I'm not trying to be ...., but this is time consuming that you may or may not be taking for granted.
Addendum: AWs have an internal protection that prevents thermal runaway. The batteries will not explode but vent, in the event the internal protection fails or the PCB fails. When purchasing equipment e.g flashlight, buy a 2 cell light or a PROTECTED charger that can charge the entire # of cells used at one time. Do not use 2 seperate chargers to charge 4 batts. One charger that can handle 4 batts.
He was an older gentleman, he did know any better. That is the unfortunate circumstances surrounding this accident. MFRs further state never to charge batteries unattended, and away from combustables.
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I sincerely apologize if I have posted incomplete/incorrect data.
I don't want to lead someone into believing something that is incorrect as there is already a wealth of misleading information on the internet already.
I am eagerly trying to learn about batteries and my favorite hobby (ecigs) and be involved in the fourms.
Posting incomplete/incorrect data is no way to be productive to the thread.
Again, I'm sorry if i mislead anyone.
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as promised here we goOh I don't but 10C is overkill IMHO, give me longevity between recharges. That is why I opt for LI Ion over IMR in large cells. Just a personal choice. Mind you, I am not a large fan of LR anyway.
I have 1/2 spreadsheet done already which shows current draw vs voltage. The other half will be wattage vs voltage, perhaps you will be ablr to sticky or tag along the "sureal" thread.
Folks seem hell bent on wattage (result of HV) and/or low resistance for satisfaction. The latter are good factors in the equation, so is the liquid being vaped. I recently gagged an HV/LR vaper with one of my mixes, which does posses a kick, but not terribly so IMMHO. He gagged and had to cut it 25-30%. One of the nicest aspects of roll your own. The ability to custom your liquids to suit your needs, and I have achieved that
My demon chaser, is a wonderful vape with beautiful taste and lots of vapour. It is an 80/20 mix at 30mg. 2-4 hits is all that is required to send the most persistent demon packing
BTW IMHO 5V (under load) is where it is at, which the lizard delivers. Many are finding this out (5V) and are downsizing as well. We are going to be hearing more and more of this as time goes on, I'm sure
New World, you are just awesome and I tip my hat to you good sir.
Switcher! Incredible, just incredible. We really need to get your posts at the head of this thread and also on a bigger scale for viewing pleasure. What do you think about a Battery safety section on the store?
Switcher! Incredible, just incredible. We really need to get your posts at the head of this thread and also on a bigger scale for viewing pleasure. What do you think about a Battery safety section on the store?
By all means Isaac, that would put IkenVape a step above the rest. There are a few that have started this trend my good man. I personally believe it is a responsible thing to do, now since we have moved away from conventional ecigs so to speak.
Many have also started to carry nothing but protected batteries, and not only protected batteries, good protected batteries not unlike what is available here. IMHO these are all positive traits that attract and maintain customers. It shows you care (we already know that) but it gives the consumer confidence in the vendor.
Many have also started to carry nothing but protected batteries, and not only protected batteries, good protected batteries not unlike what is available here. IMHO these are all positive traits that attract and maintain customers. It shows you care (we already know that) but it gives the consumer confidence in the vendor.
Good stuff guys really great stuff as a matter of fact, Keep thinking along those terms!!
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