Batteries and Safety

[KonaNeil]

Hey Kona,
Thanks for the input
May I ask how many pairs you went through in the course 7 months using this method?

Three pairs, all LifePo4 CR2s with claim of 1000+ recharges. The degradation at this point is very subtle. I don't think a casual observer would even notice the slightly shorter usable time period. I've been compulsive about monitoring them because of the one claim of a pair out-gassing violently. While they still work fine, I've put them into semi-retirement in favor of 2 ohm atties used with single IMRs.

 

[Iken]

Three pairs, all LifePo4 CR2s with claim of 1000+ recharges. The degradation at this point is very subtle. I don't think a casual observer would even notice the slightly shorter usable time period. I've been compulsive about monitoring them because of the one claim of a pair out-gassing violently. While they still work fine, I've put them into semi-retirement in favor of 2 ohm atties used with single IMRs.

Now that is astounding. I'm not too sure on lifep04 (in long term) but going through only 3 pairs in a little more than half a year says something special. It appears using the rotation technique has proven to be beneficial, especially considering how the run times are still decent.
Thanks alot for sharing Kona.

 

[Switched]

I was thinking along the lines, if battery #1 is losing it's hold faster than #2 by being in it's position. Than being constantly rotated, yes we'll be breaking them down evenly, but wouldn't that destroy both batteries with use rather than, letting physics destroy the first one by keeping it in his designated spot then after the cells are dried, sending #2 to it's fate in #1's postion while replacing the gap with a fresh battery...Ugh the more I think of it, yes for in even vape it would be wise to have the pair in constant rotation. I was just trying to look at it from a conservative's point of view.

From the conservative point of view, rotating = longevity. Not rotating = premature death of both batteries.

Rotating = the natural build up of plaque caused by cholesterol.

Not rotating = the natural build up of plaque caused by cholesterol in the top battery, whilst accelerating the plaque build up in the 2nd battery. The second battery believe it or not will fail first, making the entire pair useless.

 

[Iken]

From the conservative point of view, rotating = longevity. Not rotating = premature death of both batteries.

Rotating = the natural build up of plaque caused by cholesterol.

Not rotating = the natural build up of plaque caused by cholesterol in the top battery, whilst accelerating the plaque build up in the 2nd battery. The second battery believe it or not will fail first, making the entire pair useless.

Ahh now thats what I was trying to weed out of ya! Nice and easy

 

[Switched]

LOL Isaac you try writing this stuff so folks can understand, it isn't easy LOL. Just glad I am capable of writing it in a way folks are getting a better grip wrt Battery Safety and a better understanding in general.

 

[Vaporologist]

Maybe you should hire a Scientific-to-Layman language translator, lol.

 

[WitchWay]

Ahh now thats what I was trying to weed out of ya! Nice and easy

I'm with you, nice and easy

LOL Isaac you try writing this stuff so folks can understand, it isn't easy LOL. Just glad I am capable of writing it in a way folks are getting a better grip wrt Battery Safety and a better understanding in general.

You are fantastic!! I read and try to understand, however you always somewhere along the way put it into words even I can understand Don't stop doing what you do So now I'm rotating my batteries in the Buzz since that's the only ones I stack.

Maybe you should hire a Scientific-to-Layman language translator, lol.

Oh oh oh... I want one!!!! I need one!!!

Thank you everybody for keeping up on the batteries and all the testing to keep things safe

 

[CtryBoy]

I was thinking along the lines, if battery #1 is losing it's hold faster than #2 by being in it's position. Than being constantly rotated, yes we'll be breaking them down evenly, but wouldn't that destroy both batteries with use rather than, letting physics destroy the first one by keeping it in his designated spot then after the cells are dried, sending #2 to it's fate in #1's postion while replacing the gap with a fresh battery...Ugh the more I think of it, yes for in even vape it would be wise to have the pair in constant rotation. I was just trying to look at it from a conservative's point of view.

Conservative point of view would be rotating the pair. (Max safe life from both)
When the balding front right tire on your not so conservative sports car gets worn, you dont move the slightly less bald front left tire over and put a brand new one on the other side to stress the weaker tire in the highest stress position. Ok that makes my head hurt. Now I know why I'm chasing the perfect ohm cartomizer for my one battery instead of stacking my way to 6V.

And combining a fresh battery with an older battery is I believe what gets the average user that doesnt have a degree in electrical engineering into trouble. Puts even more stress on an already weakened battery.

 

[aspen]

Quote: "And combining a fresh battery with an older battery is I believe what gets the average user that doesnt have a degree in electrical engineering into trouble. Puts even more stress on an already weakened battery. "

Thanks for posting this CtryBoy, should help iron out some confusion about safe practices. I also am not into stacking batteries with ecigs.

 

[Switched]

Quote: "And combining a fresh battery with an older battery is I believe what gets the average user that doesnt have a degree in electrical engineering into trouble. Puts even more stress on an already weakened battery. "

Thanks for posting this CtryBoy, should help iron out some confusion about safe practices. I also am not into stacking batteries with ecigs.

There is absolutely no problem stacking batteries, this is a myth that needs to be debunked. It has been going on for ages in the flashlight industry, amongst other places, to include your cell phone, your I pod, your laptop etc...

That being said, most vapers do not use their batteries stacked or otherwise within the safe operating limits of their batteries, or simply ignore battery safety, whether this be charging or trying to save a $.

 

[aspen]

There is absolutely no problem stacking batteries, this is a myth that needs to be debunked. It has been going on for ages in the flashlight industry, amongst other places, to include your cell phone, your I pod, your laptop etc...

That being said, most vapers do not use their batteries stacked or otherwise within the safe operating limits of their batteries, or simply ignore battery safety, whether this be charging or trying to save a $.

I agree Switched nothing wrong with it if used properly. I just don't like the aesthetics when stacked, just makes the ecig huge to me. I should mention that I am little and have tiny hands.

 

[CtryBoy]

I'll admit to being turned off by the stacked batteries, not scared, just can barely handle my 5V PT a 6V MOD would be a dragon.

But the comment about slipping a fresh battery in with an old battery gave me a chill up my spine. Like you said, we are not operating these batteries within their comfort zone most of the time. Of all the possible practices this one would seem to be the most unsafe for average vaper, who doesnt own a multimeter/battery tester.

 

[VaporMadness]

But the comment about slipping a fresh battery in with an old battery gave me a chill up my spine. Like you said, we are not operating these batteries within their comfort zone most of the time. Of all the possible practices this one would seem to be the most unsafe for average vaper, who doesnt own a multimeter/battery tester.

I get the impression that the real high power flashlight junkies know the type of demand they're placing on their batteries and exercise appropriate caution. A lot of ecig users (like those that read this thread) have an awareness that we're asking a lot of the batteries too, but it's soooo easy to just not realize this.

When it comes to advanced mass marketed systems like cell phones and laptops and hybrid electric cars, the system designers of those products have taken appropriate steps to make them "safe" for uninformed end-user use. Purely mechanical unregulated ecig battery mods and uninformed end-users is a dicey proposition.

I understand "you've got to be careful" and have some idea of how to be careful, but I wonder how many 6v mod owners really don't?

Most consumer battery operated devices are no where near the limit of the batterys operating limits. The high-end flashlights and ecigs and RCtoys come to mind as applications that really push the limits. With the RCtoys the stack is physically far removed from the person so a mishap is inconsequential. With ecigs a mishap is literally in the persons face. IDK... be careful out there.

 

[Vaporologist]

I can't believe I did this!!!

I have two chargers on my office desk, the WF-138 set at 3.0V for my AW LiFePO4 batts and the TR-001 for most of my 3.7V batts. I was on the phone and distracted and put my LiFePO4 batts in the TR-001 charger. Luckily, I noticed my mistake after about 40 minutes into the charge. I removed the batts from the charger and they metered at 3.35 each. So they never got overcharged.

My question is: Is there any reason why this set of batts should now be considered damaged goods and unsafe? Please note that they never got overcharged. They were really warm when I removed them from the charger but after letting them cool off, I placed them in WF-138 charged and they charged up to their normal voltage and are metering at 3.37V each after cooling off. I have not attempted to use them yet.

Thanks in advance.

 

[VaporMadness]

Good question? I don't really know the answer but I can speculate that they're just fine. CC/CV... if the TR-001 is doing CC/CV, and you pulled them off prior to reaching the CV stage, they may have been charging just like they would have been charging on the WF-138 during the CC stage.

 

[Vaporologist]

Thanks VM, that's more or less what I thought. I just didn't know if there is some underlined potential issue I should be aware of...

 

[VaporMadness]

I really don't know either... obviously, there's a decent chance they were charging at a very fast rate while on that charger too... in excess of max charge amps. If it were me, since the numbers look good on the meter, i'd give them a cautious whirl and see how it goes... and if it makes it thru a drain/recharge cycle w/o odd behavior... i'd just do it again with less caution and so on

Before using them, I might let them sit for a day just to see if they hold the charge as they should?

 

[Switched]

The WF-138 charges at 250mA whilst the TR-001 charges at 500mA. Basically twice the rated capacity and the batteries got warm. I dare say that if you had not caught them, they could have vented. Did you damage the batteries??? probably shortened their overall life though. Keep an eye on them and if they behave out of the norm when charging or vaping, I would toss 'em.

 

[Vaporologist]

I really don't know either... obviously, there's a decent chance they were charging at a very fast rate while on that charger too... in excess of max charge amps. If it were me, since the numbers look good on the meter, i'd give them a cautious whirl and see how it goes... and if it makes it thru a drain/recharge cycle w/o odd behavior... i'd just do it again with less caution and so on

Before using them, I might let them sit for a day just to see if they hold the charge as they should?

They were still holding the charge after about 8 hrs. Thanks.

The WF-138 charges at 250mA whilst the TR-001 charges at 500mA. Basically twice the rated capacity and the batteries got warm. I dare say that if you had not caught them, they could have vented. Did you damage the batteries??? probably shortened their overall life though. Keep an eye on them and if they behave out of the norm when charging or vaping, I would toss 'em.

I was wondering when you were going to bless us with your presence...

I've been using them since about 8 pm last night and so far everything seems normal. I'll let you guys know if I start noticing anything weird. Thanks.

 

[Switched]

They were still holding the charge after about 8 hrs. Thanks.


I was wondering when you were going to bless us with your presence...

I've been using them since about 8 pm last night and so far everything seems normal. I'll let you guys know if I start noticing anything weird. Thanks.

LOL,

This was a serious post and I wanted to ensure I had my data straight before I posted what I knew, but couldn't back up with numbers. Same reason you cannot charge 510 batts with the eGo charger, .... can charge an eGo batt with a 510 charger. It just takes longer.