What I have is just a little too big for that, unless you got some huge lungs
Although......I do have a 3D printer......
BOTTOM FEEDERS= a place for everything modified and/or custom made
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What I have is just a little too big for that, unless you got some huge lungs
Although......I do have a 3D printer......
Alex I think you're in Turbo's back yard with that. He's certainly the best qualified gearhead here
Aal, not mixing with the air is the same as stagnant in this context, how much this is a result of delay combined with higher concentrations that are not as diluted is as much a guess to me as it is to you really, prolly a combination of both factors combined with other things that may go on at a molecular level within the vapor that we could only guess at.
that's the problem here, without being able to actually "see" whats going on the best we can do is hypothesize and draw conclusions, in the end I think we are both noticing the same thing but maybe visualizing it slightly differently in our heads or giving more weight to one aspect vs another, I may give a bit more weight to the delay factor where you give more weight to the higher density/less dilution factor, it's more likely a combination of both factors combined with others we both may not even realize, both are correct enough for us to form our own visualizations in our minds to represent what it is we perceive to help us understand what is going on the best we can though at this point
that's the problem here, without being able to actually "see" whats going on the best we can do is hypothesize and draw conclusions, in the end I think we are both noticing the same thing but maybe visualizing it slightly differently in our heads or giving more weight to one aspect vs another, I may give a bit more weight to the delay factor where you give more weight to the higher density/less dilution factor, it's more likely a combination of both factors combined with others we both may not even realize, both are correct enough for us to form our own visualizations in our minds to represent what it is we perceive to help us understand what is going on the best we can though at this point
O do have my theory on the flavor also...
I really noticed a big change on flavor on my orchid once y changes to the kayfun 4 chamber using the same base and coils...
As the kf4 chamber has a conical shape it concentrates the vapor without creating more turbulence.....
Let's make an analogy here; the conical area reduction tends to put more color on the same area of paper this increasing the saturation.. The turbulence would just bring really saturated spots as well as noon saturated ones...
The key is uniformity
I really noticed a big change on flavor on my orchid once y changes to the kayfun 4 chamber using the same base and coils...
As the kf4 chamber has a conical shape it concentrates the vapor without creating more turbulence.....
Let's make an analogy here; the conical area reduction tends to put more color on the same area of paper this increasing the saturation.. The turbulence would just bring really saturated spots as well as noon saturated ones...
The key is uniformity
yeah, your right. I think most drippers sacrifice a little bit of flavor with the squared off upper chamber for sure
Tried that turbo/nuppin build in the short amount of time I had today with NI200 MM. Goodness it made it hot. I'm a MTL and with both sides open about 1/2 way and even dropping to 20W I still couldn't quite tame it for me. Any less than 20 W and 380 degrees lost vapor volume and flavor too much. It wasnt harsh, just hot. Looks like I should try reducing the chamber volume instead. Haven't found a build on the Nuppin that satisfies me yet.
yeah the under air coil atties do give great flavor. you can also run a nuppin kinda like that, just put the coil in the center, right under the driptip opening and use both side airholes, then the air will slipstream around the coil straight into the driptip, really kills it when it comes to high flavor single coil, especially in a chamber that's kinda too large for a single otherwise, by positioning the coil like this you are removing the excess chamber size from the equation. the nuppin is one of the only atties that can be built like this and if you got a nuppin you gotta try this
here's a from the top down view of the coil through the driptip
I hadnt quite gotten along with my Nuppin v1 before this. Just couldnt find a single or dual coil build that worked for me. Tried this new build and the flavor is so much more intense. Its a lot warmer vape but it really makes the flavor pop, esp the sweet notes. A little too sweet, too saccharine, after first wicking but it settles down after a few vapes. Loving my Nuppin now. Btw, it works great on a Cyclone with AFC as well
Thank you Turbo!
mundy, I find this works really well with the airholes wide open, then I tried it with the afc ring off all together and it's even better. tightening it up to half way or more kills this for me too, it's a bit different than a coil that's at the air inlet. I'm also a mtl vapor, you can just draw softly even when the air is wide open, it works better to me on a setup like this. if you like the feeling of resistance to your draw then you can try a smaller bore driptip even with the air wide open.
so far I've found 2 driptips that I really like with this setup, one is a science of vaping tip with a pretty small bore and the other is a longer tip with a restricted inlet. I think I like the longer tip with no afc ring best. it's a little strange looking I guess but man the vapor is just really spectacular from this setup. the slightly longer tip cools the vape a bit more for a really smooth vape and vapor production is really nice with the airflows opened up. I still can take soft light mtl draws no problem, I actually don't take much vapor to my lungs at all, I'm more of a mouth to exhale kinda vapor, occasionally take a little to my lungs but not much. only time I take vapor deep into my lungs hard is if I haven't had a vape in a while and I'm fiending for a vape fix or when I'm vaping stealthy, then I take in deep and absorb it all so nothing is exhaled. I vape 10mg nic though so I get my nic well enough with just mouth to exhale and I do a lot of exhaling through nasal passages too. when I do a lot of deep lung inhales I get a little nic od, and since I vape close to 100%vg too much heavy lung inhales and I feel it as congestion in my chest.
the driptip is a very integral part to the overall vape you'll get from this, even more so than a standard atty setup would be. still playing with setups but the driptip def makes a big difference here and I'd say try wide open air or at least close to it and with all 3 openings it's better than with only 2
here is the 2 tips I've found working best for me so far, left is a SOV tip, right one is something I bought that I have no idea where but it's a really cool tip. by cool I mean cools the vape and cools off really quick too because it's so thin. it doesn't really get hot much at all even when chaining it. it reminds me of a kayfun style chimney. I always thought I would trim it slightly but I really like the way it works as is so far. wish I could figure out wtp it is or where it came from
and here it is on the mod, definitely a strange looking setup, but man it vapes so good like this it's sick
that tip is a little quirky in that it has a reduced opening at the inlet and because it's so thin it cools and vape condenses on the inner wall then pools at the base of the tip, which makes it kinda gurrgle after a while when enough condensation builds up. a quick blow into the tip clears it
the sov tip is pretty good too but the longer one is just awesome for some reason
so far I've found 2 driptips that I really like with this setup, one is a science of vaping tip with a pretty small bore and the other is a longer tip with a restricted inlet. I think I like the longer tip with no afc ring best. it's a little strange looking I guess but man the vapor is just really spectacular from this setup. the slightly longer tip cools the vape a bit more for a really smooth vape and vapor production is really nice with the airflows opened up. I still can take soft light mtl draws no problem, I actually don't take much vapor to my lungs at all, I'm more of a mouth to exhale kinda vapor, occasionally take a little to my lungs but not much. only time I take vapor deep into my lungs hard is if I haven't had a vape in a while and I'm fiending for a vape fix or when I'm vaping stealthy, then I take in deep and absorb it all so nothing is exhaled. I vape 10mg nic though so I get my nic well enough with just mouth to exhale and I do a lot of exhaling through nasal passages too. when I do a lot of deep lung inhales I get a little nic od, and since I vape close to 100%vg too much heavy lung inhales and I feel it as congestion in my chest.
the driptip is a very integral part to the overall vape you'll get from this, even more so than a standard atty setup would be. still playing with setups but the driptip def makes a big difference here and I'd say try wide open air or at least close to it and with all 3 openings it's better than with only 2
here is the 2 tips I've found working best for me so far, left is a SOV tip, right one is something I bought that I have no idea where but it's a really cool tip. by cool I mean cools the vape and cools off really quick too because it's so thin. it doesn't really get hot much at all even when chaining it. it reminds me of a kayfun style chimney. I always thought I would trim it slightly but I really like the way it works as is so far. wish I could figure out wtp it is or where it came from
and here it is on the mod, definitely a strange looking setup, but man it vapes so good like this it's sick
that tip is a little quirky in that it has a reduced opening at the inlet and because it's so thin it cools and vape condenses on the inner wall then pools at the base of the tip, which makes it kinda gurrgle after a while when enough condensation builds up. a quick blow into the tip clears it
the sov tip is pretty good too but the longer one is just awesome for some reason
Turbo, what size is the reduced opening in those driptips? Also curious is that you like these two about the same (that's my take away at least) and the one has a conical opening and the other is flat, which would reduce the effect of having a conical shape at the top of the chamber. I'm not so sure about the conical advantage.
That longer tip basically has a secondary chamber, a Vapor Collection Area™, before the mouth that is .
Steve, you talked me into trying a CA finish on a koa mod, for which my wife said it is like holding hand lotion.
That longer tip basically has a secondary chamber, a Vapor Collection Area™, before the mouth that is .
Steve, you talked me into trying a CA finish on a koa mod, for which my wife said it is like holding hand lotion.
actually I like the longer one more on the nuppin cap. it's somewhere around 2.8mm or so on both of these. the ideal conical upper I'm really talking about is more about the whole ceiling of the chamber being dome shaped or funnel shaped, just the driptip alone may make a slight difference but not all that much by itself
here is a fully conical domed upper cap. this is my favorite big dual coil atty and it's mainly because of this cap. it vapes better than any other 22mm atty I've ever tried, awesome atty
it's flush to that conical tip so they work together well
here it is in the nuppin cap, big difference
I decided to try the domed cap with the center coil, it's not an exact fit but close enough to seal and test.
there honestly is a significant difference. as good as it is with the nuppin cap even with the long tip, it's better with the domed upper cap and the sov tip. guess I shouldn't be too surprised really but it's pretty wild to see the difference trying these side by side comparison
here is a fully conical domed upper cap. this is my favorite big dual coil atty and it's mainly because of this cap. it vapes better than any other 22mm atty I've ever tried, awesome atty
it's flush to that conical tip so they work together well
here it is in the nuppin cap, big difference
I decided to try the domed cap with the center coil, it's not an exact fit but close enough to seal and test.
there honestly is a significant difference. as good as it is with the nuppin cap even with the long tip, it's better with the domed upper cap and the sov tip. guess I shouldn't be too surprised really but it's pretty wild to see the difference trying these side by side comparison
Ahh nice to see pics of the materials in question. With the domed cap and domed tip, does it reduce condensation and not splatter into your mouth?
I've been doing things in the opposite direction, with a flat top chamber and an offset down tube from that, but could experiment with some parts to do a domed cap and no tube.
Here's an older pic that sort of shows where things are, but without the chamber tube:
I've been doing things in the opposite direction, with a flat top chamber and an offset down tube from that, but could experiment with some parts to do a domed cap and no tube.
Here's an older pic that sort of shows where things are, but without the chamber tube:
I've been fixin' in taking the plunge and modding some old atties for a while now and as usual your pics are inspiring Turbo. Nothing beats those domed top caps IMO
Well said turbo. I hope one day someone would study all this in a scientific manner. Not because it's geeky, but because I'm tired of manufacturers using trial and error with creating atties!Aal, not mixing with the air is the same as stagnant in this context, how much this is a result of delay combined with higher concentrations that are not as diluted is as much a guess to me as it is to you really, prolly a combination of both factors combined with other things that may go on at a molecular level within the vapor that we could only guess at.
that's the problem here, without being able to actually "see" whats going on the best we can do is hypothesize and draw conclusions, in the end I think we are both noticing the same thing but maybe visualizing it slightly differently in our heads or giving more weight to one aspect vs another, I may give a bit more weight to the delay factor where you give more weight to the higher density/less dilution factor, it's more likely a combination of both factors combined with others we both may not even realize, both are correct enough for us to form our own visualizations in our minds to represent what it is we perceive to help us understand what is going on the best we can though at this point
The pessimist in me says you'll never get a definitive answer because there are so many different ways to make and place a coil in an atty, all of which will impact airflow.
Add to that everyone's idea of the perfect vape differs and all you have is a recipe for disagreement!
T
Add to that everyone's idea of the perfect vape differs and all you have is a recipe for disagreement!
T
turbocad, you and I have similar vaping methods/quests. I found your nuppin' method to be perfect for my needs. I am enjoying the continuation of your initial post and in depth explanation.
Pretty interesting stuff and while I'm certainly no expert on fluid dynamics (in fact I'm not even an amateur) I've done my share of mucking about with coil placement with respect to airflow while pondering turbulence and such. I just wonder if the size of the interior of an rda and relative air velocities scale effectively to apply the physics?
There are so many condition variables inside the very small envirionmemt of an rda such as coil gunk, wick swell, droplets of juice hanging on air intakes and flying around as splatter as we fire, etc, etc...if the interior volume was 100 ccm instead of maybe 3...it's analogous to putting a 1/16 scale ship model in a tank to test for hydrodynamics, there are some properties that just don't scale accurately.
...but fun and interesting to ponder just the same
There are so many condition variables inside the very small envirionmemt of an rda such as coil gunk, wick swell, droplets of juice hanging on air intakes and flying around as splatter as we fire, etc, etc...if the interior volume was 100 ccm instead of maybe 3...it's analogous to putting a 1/16 scale ship model in a tank to test for hydrodynamics, there are some properties that just don't scale accurately.
...but fun and interesting to ponder just the same
quigs, the things you mention are all indeed variable factors that will affect things no doubt, as well as many others no ones mentioned yet , but I can tell you for sure that all the basic properties of fluid dynamics, pressure differentials and airflow definitely does still apply, even in a chamber as small as this
pete I use stagnant as a description for little movement, largely undisturbed and relatively still compared to it's surroundings, kinda like the eye in a storm would be. yes stagnancy can be associated with foul odors when it comes to some things like stagnant water,here instead it's associated with throat hit and harshness,and yeah lots of people like various amounts of throat hit, not always a bad thing, I add some sometimes for a little more kick, or bite, or hit, or whatever you want to call it,but in order to really control it it helps to understand it which is why I've spent effort studying it trying to figure it out.just knowing how it works is one thing, figuring out why is another. for example we all know raising a coil or moving it back slightly will increase throat hit, but I never really knew exactly why until really seeing enough of the whole picture. it's like the moment that light bulb goes on in your head and finally all the bits and pieces come together and make sense
pete I use stagnant as a description for little movement, largely undisturbed and relatively still compared to it's surroundings, kinda like the eye in a storm would be. yes stagnancy can be associated with foul odors when it comes to some things like stagnant water,here instead it's associated with throat hit and harshness,and yeah lots of people like various amounts of throat hit, not always a bad thing, I add some sometimes for a little more kick, or bite, or hit, or whatever you want to call it,but in order to really control it it helps to understand it which is why I've spent effort studying it trying to figure it out.just knowing how it works is one thing, figuring out why is another. for example we all know raising a coil or moving it back slightly will increase throat hit, but I never really knew exactly why until really seeing enough of the whole picture. it's like the moment that light bulb goes on in your head and finally all the bits and pieces come together and make sense
I would say that the term throat hit in this instance is wrong, it's more about harshness which you mentioned. I would associate throat hit to the amount of nic level as opposed to the "stagnant" effect associated with harshness. It's certainly a totally different effect. Air hole placement (or coil placement if you will) I would say influences farshness and nic levels influence throat hit.
Try experimenting with 0 nic and you'll see some interesting results. Harshness varies but throat hit is virtually nonexistent
Try experimenting with 0 nic and you'll see some interesting results. Harshness varies but throat hit is virtually nonexistent
The main issue here is that vaping and taste are very much subjective concepts. A dream setup for me could well be a terrible vape to someone else and vice versa so designing the perfect atty is pretty much a huge conundrum. What's needed is a versatile atty which can be configured to cover a broad spectrum of users. Perhaps a modular design which can be configured to taste by the user.
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