brick and motars are doomed no mater what happens

[aikanae1]

I also predict someone will figure out that deeming doesn't cover "service" and if they sell no physical products, might start repairing, upgrading, older equipment with things the customer provides. Well, maybe that's on my wishlist.

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[SteveS45]

The 2 B&M vape Shops that I deal with locally have increased stock and done major improvements in the stores. They are following the Regulations and have all the GCC's and other paperwork on hand.

 

[dmska]

As long as smokers wish to make the change, brick and mortar shops will have business. Those are the folks who walk into a shop and keep coming back. At least I would think so.

 

[Stosh]

Some B&M will survive, some will fold up. This would have happened with of without the FDA. I've stopped into a bunch of shops in my area, and only one have I ever bought anything at, they know their products and respect their customers as far as what they are looking to buy.

I've been vaping over 6 years with all levels of equipment. At present I enjoy a nice 1 to 1.5 ohm build with 11 to 13 watts. A B&M that has personnel that can show me mods and tanks that fit my preferences is going to get my business. Too many vape shops are 100% the extremes selling only ego types on one end or cloud machines on the other.

 

[kbeam418]

The good B%M will be around for a while. Vaping is like computers and smartphones; they're is always something better out there. How many of us here DON'T buy something new? Sure some of have been using the same device for a couple of years but there's always something out there we want. I remember when RDA and high powered regulated mods came out, everybody said they'll never get a new mod, then sub ohm tanks came out, then the TFV4, now the TFV8. Kinda funny I remember getting my IPV4 (still works flawlessly BTW) and saying this is the last mod I'll ever get. Two years later and I've got enough mods to last a lifetime.

 

[ad356]

well i think sadly the desire for newer and better products has come to an end.... likely no new products on the US market, not unless the regulations get drastically changed. likely anything new will be a crummy "closed" approved system and i have no interest in owning such expenisve to operate systems. systems that are designed to cost you X $$ to use everyday. i think they want to adopt the model of the cigarette. you buy a pack of cigarettes per day, they last so many "drags" when they are done the .... gets disposed of. nothing left serviceable or usable in the future. a constant drain on the wallet of the user, and a constant revenue generator for the government. that's why they dont like our way of doing things. a mod can last several years, as can a RDA as you as you dont abuse your equipment and you buy good stuff. wire and cotton generates little revenue nor does a 18650 battery that lasts 5-600 charge cycles. nicotine extract is something they can tax the crap out of. good news for them i have nearly 17 liters of 100 MG in canning jars in the freezer. not getting much $$$ out of me.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Regulations? I bet it will be mostly about two things: no more nicotine for DIY and high taxes. Those B&M, which want to survive, will survive. And even prosper.

As for me, I do not want to pay taxes. I spent $300 on stockpiling (including nicotine), and I am good for the next 15 years.

The only thing I ever bought at B&M in 2.5 years of vaping was 10 ml bottle of juice.

 

[APathos]

The regs happened because of money (and power to some extent). The market is there, and it's not the same as cigarettes. It's a new market. If the regulations stopped instantly, b&ms would do fine, or at least do just as well as any other retail; and it's a market that will only expand. As of 2014, 16.8% of U.S. adults still smoke cigarettes.

 

[jambi]

I'm an... er... enthusiast? I DIY, build, own more than 100 mods (all with appropriate batteries and backups), and more than 170 atomizers. I still shop at Brick and Mortars to support local community and stave off shopping itches... they might not thrive, but they are not doomed.

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You're obviously far too wealthy to venture an opinion!

If what OP says is true, then online vendors are also living on borrowed time.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

You're obviously far too wealthy to venture an opinion!

If what OP says is true, then online vendors are also living on borrowed time.

Wealthy? Bwahahahahahahaha!

 

[Bad Ninja]

Most B&M stores have a poor business model and refuse to learn to play the long game.
They look for fast profits through misinformation and extreme markups.
They make excuses for why they cant compete and lay it at the feet of their customers.

Most of them deserve to go out of business.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Ok... gotta chime in a bit more, now...

I keep seeing references to "most." Has anyone here been to most? I've been to around 60, and that was across just 5 states, and only those shops close to the interstate. I've not been to most.

I've also seen complaints of price gouging for profit. That's rarely the case... most B&Ms are between a rock and a hard spot. If they want to stock the newest gear, they need to order direct from China, but to do so requires preorders and massive quantities which they can sell at a reasonable price, but might be stuck with if the device is a dud. Oh, and there's the shipping and waiting, and no return policy. Alternatively, they can buy from US based wholesalers who bought en masse from China. However, these wholesalers are actually selling the B&Ms merchandise at retail (100% markup), which the B&M has to markup again to stay in business while their wholesaler is selling the exact same thing online at a 130% markup, undercutting the retailers they just supplied.

Example: I bought my iPV5 for $90 at my local. They bought it for $45 from the wholesaler. The wholesaler bought it for $25 in massive quantities, and is also selling it retail at $40... yeah, I was allowed a peak at the books...

IF it were a level playing field, I could see bad-mouthing bad B&Ms. It's not a level playing field...

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[Rule62]

I don't know how many of the B&Ms stay in business as it is. In my area anyway, there are simply too many of them. Most of them are hang outs. The equivalent of the old time 'neighborhood bars'. Some are real dives; some are very elaborate, with plush sofas and chairs, big screen tv, video games, cappuccino machines, etc. People, predominantly young guys, find one they are comfortable with; and that's where they hang out. Of the ones I've been in, I don't see anyone spending enough money for them to stay in business.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Harsh but true, there are times when the truth does that.

Most B&M stores have a poor business model and refuse to learn to play the long game.
They look for fast profits through misinformation and extreme markups.
They make excuses for why they cant compete and lay it at the feet of their customers.

Most of them deserve to go out of business.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Ok... gotta chime in a bit more, now...

I keep seeing references to "most." Has anyone here been to most? I've been to around 60, and that was across just 5 states, and only those shops close to the interstate. I've not been to most.

I've also seen complaints of price gouging for profit. That's rarely the case... most B&Ms are between a rock and a hard spot. If they want to stock the newest gear, they need to order direct from China, but to do so requires preorders and massive quantities which they can sell at a reasonable price, but might be stuck with if the device is a dud. Oh, and there's the shipping and waiting, and no return policy. Alternatively, they can buy from US based wholesalers who bought en masse from China. However, these wholesalers are actually selling the B&Ms merchandise at retail (100% markup), which the B&M has to markup again to stay in business while their wholesaler is selling the exact same thing online at a 130% markup, undercutting the retailers they just supplied.

Example: I bought my iPV5 for $90 at my local. They bought it for $45 from the wholesaler. The wholesaler bought it for $25 in massive quantities, and is also selling it retail at $40... yeah, I was allowed a peak at the books...

IF it were a level playing field, I could see bad-mouthing bad B&Ms. It's not a level playing field...

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It is not the customers fault.

That is the current business model the shop owners chose to invest in.

Overhead and inventory logistics are part of running any business.

If they cannot compete, they chose incorrectly when deciding where to invest their money.

There is no "level playing field".
Thats not reality.
Life is harsh. The world of retail sales is extremely harsh and no, it isnt fair.
Business have to step up or get trampled.

 

[r77r7r]

I haven't been stocking up myself. I did try to order some goods thru my local vape shop that is struggling (PA.). They refused.

 

[Stosh]

B&M and online vendors have a tough road to hoe. Between the FDA and many state regulations they face scrutiny on the level of a nuclear power plant.

But even worse is the longer someone vapes the less they need to buy, You can pick up a few mods well under $100 that will last for years. Granted some will hit the stash box because the button is too clicky or not clicky enough or even in the "wrong" spot, but still perfectly serviceable. Tanks last near forever if cared for, an occasional new glass, just made a major purchase myself...$4 for two spare glasses. My tanks are rebuildable, so the $20 worth of wire and rayon will last me years. Ahh, you say...but juice, I DIY and have for years, it just tastes better. The more vapers that try that route and regular juice sales will dwindle.

The amount spent in a year won't keep any type of store going unless they have literally tens of thousands of customers, somewhat easier for online than B&M, but not an easy business model.

 

[BreSha6869]

I would be interested to know what % of new vapers buy their first rig at B&Ms vs online. I bet it is heavily skewed towards B&M or possibly a friend or a relative, but unsure. I don't see a lot of new vapers ordering their first mod and ejuice online.

B&Ms will always have their place, but it will be a tough road ahead for all of them IMO. Just selling mods and tanks at 100% markup and crappy juice for $15-20/30ml isn't enough to keep many in business as customers aren't stupid and most are more than willing to order everything they need online once they are comfortable and have some knowledge.

 

[Spencer87]

I'm not stocked up.... because frankly I can't really afford it, and carry all over the world. with me. I've got enough.

and if the going gets tough I'll find a way. the USA and UK aren't the only countries that sell supplies.


but... that being said.... brick and mortars are too expensive for me

 

[Bad Ninja]

I would be interested to know what % of new vapers buy their first rig at B&Ms vs online. I bet it is heavily skewed towards B&M or possibly a friend or a relative, but unsure. I don't see a lot of new vapers ordering their first mod and ejuice online.

B&Ms will always have their place, but it will be a tough road ahead for all of them IMO. Just selling mods and tanks at 100% markup and crappy juice for $15-20/30ml isn't enough to keep many in business as customers aren't stupid and most are more than willing to order everything they need online once they are comfortable and have some knowledge.

My first cig a likes were from Walmart.