That's entirely true Wegster and I hope you are right. I'm keeping mine as a backup and go to device but I until I know its safe, I won't be vaping on it on a regular basis. Would be nice if someone could have these analyzed so we'd know one way or the other. The concept is good and I'm sure improvements will be made along the way.
Burning Cartomisers? Dangerous?-510/Kr808/4081...etc filler type cartos
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That's entirely true Wegster and I hope you are right. I'm keeping mine as a backup and go to device but I until I know its safe, I won't be vaping on it on a regular basis. Would be nice if someone could have these analyzed so we'd know one way or the other. The concept is good and I'm sure improvements will be made along the way.
Thanks, saw the KR808 on alibaba previously, but no mention of the KR808D-1 models that I saw...?? Hrm, online chat available, that ought to be interesting
Someone feel free, or I may try sometime tomorrow..
I noticed that some versions of this 2pc cartomiser design are being sold with cartomisers in a 5-pack strip. My carts came as 4 pcs in a cardboard box. Some people have said that the flavor and longevity of the 5-pack carts are much better. Does anyone have experience with these types of carts? Do they burn just the same?? Are they the same in every way??
Another thread with a pair of pics, same results:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ues/10696-loongtotem-v9-aware.html#post166795
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ues/10696-loongtotem-v9-aware.html#post166795
Thought I'd chime in here as well. I have noticed the carts from the E9,Bloog,Totem,S51 type do get this burning taste and have pulled some apart as well. They also have the same appearance of burnt like the pics. I have not had this happen with the carts for the VK, KR808D-1, Nebula etc. series. The material between the two types of cartridges appears to be different. Spoke with a manufacturer of the KR series, and they informed me the material is sponge. For what it's worth.
The Kr808d-1 and LoongtoemV9 aren't the same. IT seems that the KR808d-1 is better insulated. However a lot of the carts aren;t filled right or are half filled. I always refill these before I start vaping to make sure they are filled correctly. Even then you can only vape for about 200 drags before needing to replace them. Making sure they are filled correctly from the beginning will insure that the cart material doesn;t burn through. HOwever I still am not convinced that these are safe ecigs.
Wegster, thanks for the other link. I didn't realize how much this topic has been covered already. You know I really wouldn't have guessed that so many forum members were aware of this problem. This issue is common enough that I would never ever recommend this type of E-cig to anyone. I was a little confused by the number of hardcore vapers on this site who use and endorse this type of E-cig and either deal with this issue, didn't realize it, or just don't care. Oh well, I feel I've done my part to warn everyone about it, now its up to you to make your own decision.
I always thought that the true power of this forum is to give people the right info to make informed decisions and hopefully steer them away from poorly designed, poorly manufactured, over-priced or unsafe products. Also, I thought this forum would give valuable feedback to the manufacturers about design flaws that should be promptly corrected. This issue has been around for months and I don't see any potential resolutions in view. Hopefully anyone considering to buy one of these models finds this thread and thinks twice before purchasing one. Maybe then the manufacturers would deal with the problem. If everyone keeps buying and endorsing this type of product then change will likely never come. (or it'll take a long time because sales are still good.) I know I know, some or many of you are not experiencing this issue and you think I'm the minority but I'm willing to bet it is way more common than most people think. I also think alot of people don't realize it. (or didn't until now)
If this was the first e-cig to come out on the market, people would have ripped it to shreds for a problem like this. I wonder if the only reason this model has come this far is because it has been grandfathered in under the name ecig and with the overwhelming array of different ecigs available it doesn't get the close scrutiny it deserves. I'll wait a few months and check in on this product again to see if they fix this problem, until then vape at your own risk. Too bad though, it really has alot of potential.
I always thought that the true power of this forum is to give people the right info to make informed decisions and hopefully steer them away from poorly designed, poorly manufactured, over-priced or unsafe products. Also, I thought this forum would give valuable feedback to the manufacturers about design flaws that should be promptly corrected. This issue has been around for months and I don't see any potential resolutions in view. Hopefully anyone considering to buy one of these models finds this thread and thinks twice before purchasing one. Maybe then the manufacturers would deal with the problem. If everyone keeps buying and endorsing this type of product then change will likely never come. (or it'll take a long time because sales are still good.) I know I know, some or many of you are not experiencing this issue and you think I'm the minority but I'm willing to bet it is way more common than most people think. I also think alot of people don't realize it. (or didn't until now)
If this was the first e-cig to come out on the market, people would have ripped it to shreds for a problem like this. I wonder if the only reason this model has come this far is because it has been grandfathered in under the name ecig and with the overwhelming array of different ecigs available it doesn't get the close scrutiny it deserves. I'll wait a few months and check in on this product again to see if they fix this problem, until then vape at your own risk. Too bad though, it really has alot of potential.
Took apart a Red Dragon cartomizer that I had used for about a day and was ready to top off with some JC juice.
To my amazement it looked almost identical to the burnt cart autopsy posted by udave.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo.../7837-disposable-autopsy-smoke51-epuffer.html
WTF??? I did not taste burnt, it tasted done, no flavor left, but not burnt and still vaping.
Putting the cartomiser model aside for now.
To my amazement it looked almost identical to the burnt cart autopsy posted by udave.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo.../7837-disposable-autopsy-smoke51-epuffer.html
WTF??? I did not taste burnt, it tasted done, no flavor left, but not burnt and still vaping.
Putting the cartomiser model aside for now.
RE: carts being different. I'm not so sure now.
My pic, posted here, was from a KR808D-1 cart:
udave posted a pic (I gave link previously, but it's http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo.../7837-disposable-autopsy-smoke51-epuffer.html ), udave's pic:
While dave did further disassembly, they sure look the same to me. I *think* there was some cart change at some point, but these two certainly look the same, no ?
(Dave's was from a smoke51, aka e9, etc)
My pic, posted here, was from a KR808D-1 cart:
udave posted a pic (I gave link previously, but it's http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo.../7837-disposable-autopsy-smoke51-epuffer.html ), udave's pic:
While dave did further disassembly, they sure look the same to me. I *think* there was some cart change at some point, but these two certainly look the same, no ?
(Dave's was from a smoke51, aka e9, etc)
Thank you Lazarus! Sweet victory. Everyone should take a look at their used cartomizers. If its burnt you need to decide if your OK with "Smoking" the cartridge material and burning the E-Liquid. If your not ok with this (and you shouldn't be), put it aside and use a safer model. If enough people do this, it will get addressed by the manufacturers.
Sorry to ruin the party for so many people, I realize these are probably the most convenient E-Cigs to date. Its not worth the risk.
Sorry to ruin the party for so many people, I realize these are probably the most convenient E-Cigs to date. Its not worth the risk.
Note: I need to dremel the darned cart apart, that's going to have to be the weekend, more than likely. On the KR808D-1 cart, there seems to be perhaps a minor difference, looking inside the cart, there's a small woven (cloth, like the other pieces, but thinner and longer) sleeve, which in this case, looks like it was/is totally detached from the wire.. I think it's actually just an insulator for the wiring, as it's more like the tiny gauge wires, can't fit over a coil.
Maybe there are several manufacturers at play, and perhaps some are better than others? My pics above are from the 5 packs, sealed in a plastic and foil blister pack.
I do have some differently packed 5 packs - these are simply in a whie box stating 'atomized cartridges'. They have the 'cartridge condoms' on each end, plus the same inner silicon 'toothpick plug' as the others, but maybe they're from a different manufacturer?
I have enough carts, will see if I can find an easier way to get these apart, ideally so can take apart, smoke, take apart again, but if not, will have to sacrifice a few carts, one brand new, one after a dozen drags, 2 dozen, 3 dozen, and possibly for the different packaged carts I've got to see if there's any difference.
I'd still like to have a chat with at least the one manufacturer link we posted above, or perhaps a vendor can push this issue and get some answers:
- what's the inner material(s) made of?
- is it known and expected to start burning nearly immediately?
- what can be done to correct this, assuming it's acknowledged as a problem?
etc...
This is unfortunate..I really like the two piece idea, even though cart prices need to come down for it to be remotely cost comparative vs 3 piece units (or be able to be refilled successfully at least a few times without burning...right now, it can't even go for an out of box, no refill.. :-( ) Perhaps the 'burnt pieces' can be shown to be non harmful, in which case, then we only need cheaper carts for them, but I'd continue using.
Most of all, it seems we need some more info yet...if anyone's up for some dissections, I think it would be good if we could determine (ideally and verify with others experiences) at what point the inner material *does* start burning, and some additional info from the manufacturer(s) or a vendor..
Other thoughts?
Maybe there are several manufacturers at play, and perhaps some are better than others? My pics above are from the 5 packs, sealed in a plastic and foil blister pack.
I do have some differently packed 5 packs - these are simply in a whie box stating 'atomized cartridges'. They have the 'cartridge condoms' on each end, plus the same inner silicon 'toothpick plug' as the others, but maybe they're from a different manufacturer?
I have enough carts, will see if I can find an easier way to get these apart, ideally so can take apart, smoke, take apart again, but if not, will have to sacrifice a few carts, one brand new, one after a dozen drags, 2 dozen, 3 dozen, and possibly for the different packaged carts I've got to see if there's any difference.
I'd still like to have a chat with at least the one manufacturer link we posted above, or perhaps a vendor can push this issue and get some answers:
- what's the inner material(s) made of?
- is it known and expected to start burning nearly immediately?
- what can be done to correct this, assuming it's acknowledged as a problem?
etc...
This is unfortunate..I really like the two piece idea, even though cart prices need to come down for it to be remotely cost comparative vs 3 piece units (or be able to be refilled successfully at least a few times without burning...right now, it can't even go for an out of box, no refill.. :-( ) Perhaps the 'burnt pieces' can be shown to be non harmful, in which case, then we only need cheaper carts for them, but I'd continue using.
Most of all, it seems we need some more info yet...if anyone's up for some dissections, I think it would be good if we could determine (ideally and verify with others experiences) at what point the inner material *does* start burning, and some additional info from the manufacturer(s) or a vendor..
Other thoughts?
Drew - see the other links, it's not something new, just revisited..entirely possible there are different manufacturers of the same style, or even same 'model' carts, with different results. I have no way to know where each came from, just packaging is different. My only pic to date has been from the 'blister pack' plastic and foil sealed 5 packs (check video reviews, I did one including the KR, and held up the pack).
So really, I doubt this is someone 'crying wolf' - people just want to now more, as others have had similar experiences on at least *some* 2 piece e-cig carts.
So really, I doubt this is someone 'crying wolf' - people just want to now more, as others have had similar experiences on at least *some* 2 piece e-cig carts.
Wegster...the first cart you had the picture of is the KR808d-1....there is more insulating material than the loongtotem V9 (second picture). The material is also different...it is far more fire ......ant. I see in your first picture that after 12 drags you went through the insulating material as well as the cart material. Remember in the other thread I was telling you that your carts aren't filled correctly....you have proof there. I can vape on correctly filled cart all day (with some topping off) and never go through the insulating material like that.
@Edo (and Drew) - yeah, I'm wondering on the manufacturers as well. I'm hopeful there's multiple (besides the obvious, the e9/LT/smoke51 etc vs KR808D-1) manufacturers of carts, and that some have better QC, or failing that, the issue is understood. I'll pull some others apart when I get a chance, starting at out of box, 12 drags, 24 drags, etc. And do the same with topped off (any recommendations, 5-10 drops seems to be the collective recommendation..?) from the start (meaning opening brand new cart, top off, take 12 drags, open it up, repeat, etc).
Is there any sure way to know how many, assuming there are multiple, manufacturers there are, within a given 'model' (e9/clones vs KR808D1-1/clones)?
Maybe greencig carts *are* looking like a better idea?
Is there any sure way to know how many, assuming there are multiple, manufacturers there are, within a given 'model' (e9/clones vs KR808D1-1/clones)?
Maybe greencig carts *are* looking like a better idea?
Drew, you have a few fair questions. I don't want anyone to think that I'm biased in anyway so here goes.......
I live on Long Island, 30 yrs old, I am an electrical test engineer and I work for a telecommunications company where I design automated testing software for high power microprocessor controlled solid state RF amplifiers. Typically used for jamming, electronic warfare, electronic counter-warfare and military communications. I am in absolutely no way affiliated with or employed by any manufacturer or supplier of electronic cigarettes. I have studied/analyzed every type of e-cig I've come into contact with and I recently purchased 3 E9 kits for me and two friends. On the 2nd day that I had the E9, I got the most disgusting burnt taste from a cartridge that was relatively new. (approx 25 puffs) Thats what made me open one up in the first place.
Being that I work in a manufacturing environment, I take a very keen interest on how things are made. Especially when they are not working correctly.
I bought my carts from e-cig.com. I tried multiple flavors and multiple strengths. I found that the burning starts in all of my cartridges and my 2 freinds cartridges within the first 20-30 puffs. I can't even taste any burning, but when I open the cart, it is black and charred. Both of my friends had the same experience. The one cart that had the strong burning taste was a relatively new cart that I puffed on maybe 20 times in a row, taking big pulls. I understand why that one burned, but all the others? Also, my friends are lighter smokers than me who take much smaller pulls and they had the same burning phenomenon inside their cartridges.
The moral of this thread is two things. First is to make everyone aware of whats happening in their e-cig, in case they didn't know. I'm sure most people wouldn't want to be inhaling the burnt cart material and burnt e-liquid if they knew about it. The second is to get a manufacturer to look at this problem and fix it. I'm sure whoever does will be very successful. I really want to use the 2-peice design but now I can't because of what I've learned. One person said theat this is exactly the type of thing that the FDA would go after, and I agree. The possible dangers in this design could lead to a serious setback in geting e-cigs recognized as a SAFE alternative to smoking.
I realize that some people post here with alterior motives. Trust me, that is not the case here. I even recently attended an LI-Vapers meeting and some people in this forum now know me personally. Like wegster said, I just want more info on this issue and a manufacturer to resolve it.
I live on Long Island, 30 yrs old, I am an electrical test engineer and I work for a telecommunications company where I design automated testing software for high power microprocessor controlled solid state RF amplifiers. Typically used for jamming, electronic warfare, electronic counter-warfare and military communications. I am in absolutely no way affiliated with or employed by any manufacturer or supplier of electronic cigarettes. I have studied/analyzed every type of e-cig I've come into contact with and I recently purchased 3 E9 kits for me and two friends. On the 2nd day that I had the E9, I got the most disgusting burnt taste from a cartridge that was relatively new. (approx 25 puffs) Thats what made me open one up in the first place.
Being that I work in a manufacturing environment, I take a very keen interest on how things are made. Especially when they are not working correctly.
I bought my carts from e-cig.com. I tried multiple flavors and multiple strengths. I found that the burning starts in all of my cartridges and my 2 freinds cartridges within the first 20-30 puffs. I can't even taste any burning, but when I open the cart, it is black and charred. Both of my friends had the same experience. The one cart that had the strong burning taste was a relatively new cart that I puffed on maybe 20 times in a row, taking big pulls. I understand why that one burned, but all the others? Also, my friends are lighter smokers than me who take much smaller pulls and they had the same burning phenomenon inside their cartridges.
The moral of this thread is two things. First is to make everyone aware of whats happening in their e-cig, in case they didn't know. I'm sure most people wouldn't want to be inhaling the burnt cart material and burnt e-liquid if they knew about it. The second is to get a manufacturer to look at this problem and fix it. I'm sure whoever does will be very successful. I really want to use the 2-peice design but now I can't because of what I've learned. One person said theat this is exactly the type of thing that the FDA would go after, and I agree. The possible dangers in this design could lead to a serious setback in geting e-cigs recognized as a SAFE alternative to smoking.
I realize that some people post here with alterior motives. Trust me, that is not the case here. I even recently attended an LI-Vapers meeting and some people in this forum now know me personally. Like wegster said, I just want more info on this issue and a manufacturer to resolve it.
wegster, Im very curious to see the results of your progressive tests. 12, 24, 36.......puffs/per cart with and without refilling should be very informative. I'm under the impression that by 12 puffs you might see the beginning of burning. By 24 and above, it should be very clear. Lets see what you find out..........
Well Drew, I can actually answer one of the questions you asked. I bought 20 KR808D-1 carts from you about a week ago. This morning I put a brand new one on a freshly charged battery and went off to work. By Noon, 3 hours later, with very light occasional vaping at my desk, I started to get that burned taste. So I ripped the cart apart and found even more signs of burning than Wegsters pictures show!
Now don't get defensive, this happens to ALL my KR808D-1 carts and it doesn't matter who I buy them from. The only thing that varies is how soon I get the burnt taste. The quality of these carts varies wildly, sometimes I barely get any use out of them at all, and sometimes they last much longer.
You asked about the moral to all of this? Well, I can only speak for myself and say that as soon as I use up all the KR808D1 carts I have, I won't be using this device anymore. I have no idea when these things actually start to burn inside. They might start burning while there is still enough juice in them so that it is not noticeable. If that's the case I have no idea what I'm inhaling and if I wanted to inhale something that was burning I would go back to analogs.
Since I have a bunch of carts from different vendors I'm going to start ripping them apart well before I notice the burnt taste and see what I find inside. Sounds like Wegster will be doing that too.
Stay tuned....
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Ok, but these carts are supposed to be disposable, put them on, vape em' and throw them away. Without ever adding juice to them. Right? In that regard they just haven't worked well for me...
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