FDA Business way down because of 8-8??

[schismz]

You wonder how many are stockpiling. Lets say there are 10 million vapers in the US. If 10% are seriously stockpiling at this point I'd be amazed. Stockpiling has become one of the more interesting parts of the hobby for me. Hoarding and bing buying are not the same as stockpiling.

Just curious, what's the difference between stockpiling & hoarding? So far as I know, same thing, one's just using a negative label (why anybody cares if someone else is stockpiling I've no idea). You go on ECF, people are stockpiling, you go on a few other forums, and they're hoarders.

At the end of the day, I can shrug and vape on, secure in my knowledge that our government is completely corrupt and wants to kill all of us, just slowly, so we keep paying taxes. It's shocking to me that when I thought I knew everything at age 18, it turns out I was right, it's all smoke and mirrors, and everything really is all about the money and nothing else.

 

[Myrany]

Just curious, what's the difference between stockpiling & hoarding? So far as I know, same thing, one's just using a negative label (why anybody cares if someone else is stockpiling I've no idea). You go on ECF, people are stockpiling, you go on a few other forums, and they're hoarders.

At the end of the day, I can shrug and vape on, secure in my knowledge that our government is completely corrupt and wants to kill all of us, just slowly, so we keep paying taxes. It's shocking to me that when I thought I knew everything at age 18, it turns out I was right, it's all smoke and mirrors, and everything really is all about the money and nothing else.

Hoard sort of indicates indiscriminately buying anything and everything with no intention of using it. I consider myself a stockpiler as I purchased very carefully selected items in measured quantitys that I expect to last my lifetime and no further.

 

[sofarsogood]

Just curious, what's the difference between stockpiling & hoarding? So far as I know, same thing, one's just using a negative label (why anybody cares if someone else is stockpiling I've no idea). You go on ECF, people are stockpiling, you go on a few other forums, and they're hoarders.

At the end of the day, I can shrug and vape on, secure in my knowledge that our government is completely corrupt and wants to kill all of us, just slowly, so we keep paying taxes. It's shocking to me that when I thought I knew everything at age 18, it turns out I was right, it's all smoke and mirrors, and everything really is all about the money and nothing else.

Hoarding can be a psychological disorder. I notice as I accumulate my stockpile the tendency for it to become open ended and lose it's rationality. I want to avoid pretending I'm adding to a stockpile when I'm really doing something else so it's segregated. I know when I'm adding to the stockpile and when I'm just buying a new toy. There is no such thing as forever and the farther out you try to push the end date the more difficult and uncertain it becomes. I want a high probability of making it 10 years. To do that I have some back ups so that if something doesn't perform as predicted there is a second supply that might. Then if both supplies work without faults and nic really does keep indefinitely may be I'm good for 20 years. The stockpile outlined above will cost me $650. That is well within my means and what I would have spent to smoke for less than 3 months. If I'm hoarding I keep accumulating without any rationale for when it's time to stop.

 

[ENAUD]

I am a stockpile'r and a hoarder/collector rolled into one. A major part of my stash I consider a stockpile, the atties, coils, nic, pg/vg, wire, batteries etc. are what I consider my stock pile. My ProVari's and REOs mods, well those I have multiple redundancies, and many more than I need because I like to collect them. Many of these mods were bought just because it was a color I didn't have, so in that aspect if I want to feel nice I am a collector, if I want to be realistic...then yes, I am a hoarder.

 

[schismz]

Thanks for the clarifications. I'm over with Enaud bein' a collector!

 

[Enigma32]

Vape shops are a crazy business. You can make the core product for a couple of cents per ml and sell it for 50 cents or a dollar? [removed] Nobody gets markups like that. Too many vape shops is predictable and governments are insanely jealous and it's funny to watch.

A disruptive technology is usually something that has such a supreme price advantage that it buries it's competition. PC's and smart phones and the internet have done that to a bunch of businesses. It hard to find something low tech and mechanical, like ecigs, that can do the same, but it's happening.

If autonomous vehicles actually work they will change the world too but that's mostly about computers and networking, not the mechanical part of automotive technology.

Your cost estimate includes just raw liquid ingredients. You leave out the cost of labor for mixing, cost of bottling and labeling, cost of retail overhead, cost of spoilage and overstock, cost of marketing. The liquid itself is the lowest cost associated with it. When you buy a bottle of pepsi, you realize that the bottle itself costs more than the product within it? Then of course the labor, distribution, marketing, etc again.

 

[sofarsogood]

Your cost estimate includes just raw liquid ingredients. You leave out the cost of labor for mixing, cost of bottling and labeling, cost of retail overhead, cost of spoilage and overstock, cost of marketing. The liquid itself is the lowest cost associated with it. When you buy a bottle of pepsi, you realize that the bottle itself costs more than the product within it? Then of course the labor, distribution, marketing, etc again.

I've owned a business. I understand what you're saying. Never the less hardware sold at vape shops might have a 100% markup. A product that can be sold for 10 x the bare cost is unusual. I'm not complainging or criticizing. That markup allows a lot of vape shops to exist. The more of them there are the more people will get off smoking which is exactly what our dear dear government hates. Governments should be happy that so many people are able to stop smoking so easily but...mysteriously, they aren't. Hmmm...

 

[jambi]

I've owned a business. I understand what you're saying. Never the less hardware sold at vape shops might have a 100% markup. A product that can be sold for 10 x the bare cost is unusual. I'm not complainging or criticizing. That markup allows a lot of vape shops to exist. The more of them there are the more people will get off smoking which is exactly what our dear dear government hates. Governments should be happy that so many people are able to stop smoking so easily but...mysteriously, they aren't. Hmmm...

If you've owned a retail business, you know that a large portion of that markup is gobbled up by rent. Here in L.A. non-prime storefront space in a decent (meaning not ghetto) area adjacent to, but not on, a main drag is averaging 3$ sq. foot. for locations with street parking only. Locations with dedicated off-street parking can run significantly higher. Doesn't sound like much, but it equates to $3600 mo. for a 1200 foot store (no parking, off main drag).

And that's at the cheap end. You want to go prime location with a vape shop, good luck. Just a main drag, or anywhere within 500 feet of a metro station, will double the rent, parking or no. "Premium" retail areas like "old town" type districts are basically untouchable for a vape shop. I just checked out an 1100 ft. storefront in "Old Town Pasadena" great area, huge pedestrian traffic day and night...$9,400 per month (no parking, not even an employee parking area)!

Now, a vape shop could go cheaper by going ghetto, or going to a retail no-man's land, but only with significant added risk. Could also go smaller, 800 sq. ft. should be sufficient for a retail-only (no online sales) vape store. Problem in L.A. is there's a huge demand for small retail because everyone and their mother wants to open an 800 sq. ft. sandwich shop/coffee house/cupcake boutique, so small locations in good areas are very challenging to find.

Notwithstanding regulatory hassles, the best bet for a vape shop is a small shop in a funky area, maybe with used book-record stores, tattoo parlors, etc. for neighbors, that isn't undergoing or is unlikely to undergo in the near future, gentrification, preferably with a studio apartment above the shop included (to run your online side-business at night), because there ain't gonna be no income sufficient to be paying home mortgages and the like. It'd also be wise to go ahead and add hookas, zig-zags, crack pipes and psychedelic fluorescent glow in the dark posters to your inventory, just to like build a protective .... around your little empire and hope it's enough to keep the regulatory waves at bay.

But why go through the hassle and heartache when you can just pay a guy the equivalent of a couple month's rent to set up a website for you and sell stuff online out of your apartment?

Vape shops were pretty much doomed from the start, though I admire the audacity of those who turned a blind eye to impending Regs and opened up anyway. But nowadays it's like Rommel blitzkrieging through the desert..."We don't need gasoline! We can Win!" Well, look what happened to Rommel.

 

[sofarsogood]

If you've owned a retail business, you know that a large portion of that markup is gobbled up by rent. Here in L.A. non-prime storefront space in a decent (meaning not ghetto) area adjacent to, but not on, a main drag is averaging 3$ sq. foot. for locations with street parking only. Locations with dedicated off-street parking can run significantly higher. Doesn't sound like much, but it equates to $3600 mo. for a 1200 foot store (no parking, off main drag).

And that's at the cheap end. You want to go prime location with a vape shop, good luck. Just a main drag, or anywhere within 500 feet of a metro station, will double the rent, parking or no. "Premium" retail areas like "old town" type districts are basically untouchable for a vape shop. I just checked out an 1100 ft. storefront in "Old Town Pasadena" great area, huge pedestrian traffic day and night...$9,400 per month (no parking, not even an employee parking area)!

Now, a vape shop could go cheaper by going ghetto, or going to a retail no-man's land, but only with significant added risk. Could also go smaller, 800 sq. ft. should be sufficient for a retail-only (no online sales) vape store. Problem in L.A. is there's a huge demand for small retail because everyone and their mother wants to open an 800 sq. ft. sandwich shop/coffee house/cupcake boutique, so small locations in good areas are very challenging to find.

Notwithstanding regulatory hassles, the best bet for a vape shop is a small shop in a funky area, maybe with used book-record stores, tattoo parlors, etc. for neighbors, that isn't undergoing or is unlikely to undergo in the near future, gentrification, preferably with a studio apartment above the shop included (to run your online side-business at night), because there ain't gonna be no income sufficient to be paying home mortgages and the like. It'd also be wise to go ahead and add hookas, zig-zags, crack pipes and psychedelic fluorescent glow in the dark posters to your inventory, just to like build a protective .... around your little empire and hope it's enough to keep the regulatory waves at bay.

But why go through the hassle and heartache when you can just pay a guy the equivalent of a couple month's rent to set up a website for you and sell stuff online out of your apartment?

Vape shops were pretty much doomed from the start, though I admire the audacity of those who turned a blind eye to impending Regs and opened up anyway. But nowadays it's like Rommel blitzkrieging through the desert..."We don't need gasoline! We can Win!" Well, look what happened to Rommel.

Every few months I stop at a vape shop and hang out for a while. I'm not a very good customer but they enjoy the converstion. I like to see who is coming in and what they are looking for. Baring government interference I think there are vape shop models that would work for some customers and be profitable. Talking about the most expensive retail space is not a good comparison. All the vape shops in my area are in retail spaces that were empty when they went in, areas where retail is declining and the landlords are making great deals. The high e liquid margins mean vape shops can cover the rent with reletively few customers which helps them stay in business until they have more customers. Vaping is a social scene for some vapers (not me, I'm so out of step with the market it's funny). It's hard to believe that the FDA intends to infuriate the customers I saw in a vape shop today, younger, interested in clouds and flavors, not nicotine.