Busted at Wal-Mart! lol

[Wildsky]

Interesting discussion. I myself, chose vaping for a cheaper and less toxic option, (compared to the carcinogens in analogs.)

I have to ask, those with children, "Would you vape next to your child or infant?" (This question does not apply to those who smoke/smoked analogs next to their children or with their children...you opinion just doesn't count.)

Let me ask you another OT question in return. Do you vaccinate your children? Do you know whats in those vaccines?

 

[wv2win]

I think that you've forgotten the stand point that the FDA has taken. All that you have listed is sold at quality controlled dosages, the highest (I believe is 7-8mg of nicotine per 16-24 hour period)
Their supposed concern is that the nicotine is not under quality control because it's from China, since China does not have the same standards of quality control like things manufactured here in the U.S. and other regions that have the same practices. There seems to be many issues revolving FDA's concerns, like cross contamination, misuse and misguided medical claims and such.

Water vapor? Who steered you wrong?
Don't claim the vapor to be something that it is not.
Think of it as an odorless fume. This is the most correct description of the emission from your E-cig to mouth to exhale.

Just because it is liquid, gives you no right to assume that it is just water vapor. In that regards, heat up some odorless turpentine till it "vaporizes," take a deep breath and tell me if you still think that's water vapor.

I believe there is a fighting chance to have this not be banned. I believe the steps needed to be taken are, establishments under FDA guidelines and approval manufacturing the e-liquid. Selling only pre-measured cartridges, to reduce cross contamination to consumers of this controlled drug. Making no medical claims, until claims can be proven, and paying government taxes on the tobacco based product.

I personally think this is the route that will be taken. I don't believe that the E-cig device will be banned, as they haven't banned bongs and vaporizers in head shops. But, I do believe buying E-liquid direct from China will be and allowing a U.S. or FDA approved manufacture to take over the market, who will buy it from China...like Phillip Morris.

You must be into big government and complete control of all human functions. How about letting people figure out for themselves what is good for them and what is not good for them.

I don't have any problem and would welcome mandatory testing of liquid and labeling of contents that are verified. But mandating limited strengths, like "one size fits all" and that you have to get permission to buy the product is just one more step towards communism. This is nicotine not herion. Why are you not concerned that some kid or adult for that matter, could buy a package of nic gum and put every piece in his mouth and possibly OD on nicotine??

And how do you come to the conclusion that the vapor is harmful to others when all the ingrediants have been tested separately, are used in other products and found to have no harmful effects. (check the independent New Zealand study). If you live within 10 miles of a paper mill like about 20 million people in the US do, you have more chance of being harmed than possibly breathing in vapor that may have trace elements of nicotine and PG.

Where does this fear come from? You cannot regulate all risk out of life. Let people make informed decisions but don't take away their right to make those decisions. I believe that is one of the reasons why this country was founded.

 

[wv2win]

Let me ask you another OT question in return. Do you vaccinate your children? Do you know whats in those vaccines?

Good point! A percentage of children die every year from vaccines. Should we ban vaccines? Or should we inform people there is some risk and then let them make their own decisions?

 

[Wildsky]

Something smells odd around here or did the dog fart again?

 

[OutWest]

The whole reason for the second hand smoke scare was because of the 4000 carcinogens and 43 known, of which nicotine is one of the 43 known labeled as one of the most addictive drugs, and known as a pesticide, and non-medical poison. The effects of nicotine has been determined, pretty severe in terms of birth defects, personal side effects, and so on.

Um.... Nicotine is not a carcinogen. Yes, it's addictive, but it's not carcinogenic. And, like caffeine, it's a stimulant and will raise heart rate. It's also a vascular constrictor.

It's also thought to lower a person's risk of Parkinson's and ulcerative colitis; interfere with the development of Karposi's sarcoma, preeclampsia, and breast cancer; help reduce risk of seizures in certain patients; and alleviate symptoms associated with schizophrenia.

On a side note, if you read the wiki entry on caffeine, it'll make you wonder why it's legal and classified as a GRAS substance yet theyre so bent on classifying eliquid as a new drug. Caffeine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Back to topic - I ate at Furr's Cafeteria with family members today and afterwards, we sat there awhile chatting, so I vaped. Was up front, first table you see when entering , right by the no smoking sign, and nobody said a word to me. It helped, though, that I was using a black 901 with blue led, was only occassionaly hitting it, and was hitting it lightly (and thus very little vapor being exhaled).

 

[dedmonwakin]

You must be into big government and complete control of all human functions.

Not at all.

How about letting people figure out for themselves what is good for them and what is not good for them.

And here is my point. You talk of choice as a user....but what about the non-user. What choice, when many of you are smoking in establishments that are suppose to preserve their choice. COMMON EFFIN CURTEOUSY LACKS AMONG MANY BLINDED BY THIS SAFER ALTERNITIVE, FOR THE USER.


I don't have any problem and would welcome mandatory testing of liquid and labeling of contents that are verified. But mandating limited strengths, like "one size fits all" and that you have to get permission to buy the product is just one more step towards communism.

Your statement above in red, pretty much sums up why the FDA is involved and my standing on the issue.

No, never said that the substance should be controlled in a matter that we have to get prescriptions.

One step towards communism? No, not at all would it be like communism to have official recommended dosages during usage of the e-cig at one time or day be like communism. Look around, people are having to cut their liquid, get a feel for how much they should take, who to trust and buy from, etc.


This is nicotine not herion.

Nicotine is not ......, but the effects are. Geebus cripes! Use your damn google man!

Why are you not concerned that some kid or adult for that matter, could buy a package of nic gum and put every piece in his mouth and possibly OD on nicotine??

Maybe I am concerned about how much a kid or adult consumes during the usage of nic gum, patches, or anything that contains an addictive drug, it's called caring. But were, not talking about those products.

We are talking about a product that users are confident enough to expose others to unknown risks!

And how do you come to the conclusion that the vapor is harmful to others when all the ingrediants have been tested separately, are used in other products and found to have no harmful effects. (check the independent New Zealand study). If you live within 10 miles of a paper mill like about 20 million people in the US do, you have more chance of being harmed than possibly breathing in vapor that may have trace elements of nicotine and PG.

I am certainly aware of risks when I step out of my house. Hell, I think I take more risks than the average person! Friggin look at my avatar, and tell me if I'm sheltered!

How in the world do you know that the guy your sitting next to, isn't allergic to nicotine...especially if your vaping like a train, much like I do at 36mg. You flopping took away this guys right to choose to sit in a non-vaping/smoking area that doesn't exist! Who are you to assume that it is safe when the product has not gone under testing in a controlled environment! When I say controlled, I mean a considerable amount of time exposing the host and bystander. Not a chemical wrap sheet. That means nothing. It has a poison in it, it is nothing comparable to gum or patches or anything that only affects only the user!


If you have a non smoking friend, try this if he or she is willing. Take the highest E-liquid you have. Shotgun the "Vapor" to your friend. See how many shotguns it takes for he/she to get a buzz from your harmless water vapor.

Your harmless water vapor is a carrier of nicotine. Some are sensitive to this poison. Despite what you think, you have no right to expose people to your water vapor that you believe to be absent of anything harmful. You cannot deny that your water vapor is emitting a drug, period.


Where does this fear come from? You cannot regulate all risk out of life. Let people make informed decisions but don't take away their right to make those decisions. I believe that is one of the reasons why this country was founded.[/quote]

You call it fear, I call it concerns. As stated in another thread. Someone dare light a cigarette or e-cig in the presence of my children or newborn. It will not be taken kindly.

I believe we are arguing on two different subjects, that keep getting intertwined. Yes, we have a right to do what we will to our own bodies....but you don't have the right to extend it to others.

Anyway, believe what you will. I'm all for the E-cig, for other reasons than apparent popular. I definitely don't want it banned, after having invested more than a half a grand in my first 2 days of Vaping.

 

[Vapor Pete]

Let me ask you another OT question in return. Do you vaccinate your children? Do you know whats in those vaccines?

Good question. You know what, I in fact dont know whats in those vaccines. What I do know, is that neither of my children have gotten the flu, rhubella, chicken pox, measels, small pox, whooping caugh, or polio. And my pediatrician does give us the choice to opt out of vac's if we desire. Now... back to the topic at hand, which was I believe, "is it good PR to vape in no-smoking areas".......
My best,
-VP

 

[Vapor Pete]

I AM NOT advocating vaping in someone's face to irritate them. I am advocating vaping in the same manner that you would drink a beer around someone you don't know such as in a resturant or at a game. Some people are against consumering alcohol but that does not give them the right to stop me from having a beer, even in their presence unless it is in their home or someplace they own.

Again, WV, you are touching on the very analogy I am using. So with your logic: no, people who are against consuming alcohol cannot stop you from drinking.... UNLESS you are drinking it in a NON-ALCOHOL area. Likewise, as I said in my last post, go ahead and fill a beer can with water, and take it into a restricted area. See what you get. You will be explaining the benefits of drinking water all the way to the "drinking area". Just like vaping, flaunting it in that context is not the time, or the place.
My best,
-VP

 

[sherid]

You must be into big government and complete control of all human functions.

Not at all.

How about letting people figure out for themselves what is good for them and what is not good for them.

And here is my point. You talk of choice as a user....but what about the non-user. What choice, when many of you are smoking in establishments that are suppose to preserve their choice. COMMON EFFIN CURTEOUSY LACKS AMONG MANY BLINDED BY THIS SAFER ALTERNITIVE, FOR THE USER.


I don't have any problem and would welcome mandatory testing of liquid and labeling of contents that are verified. But mandating limited strengths, like "one size fits all" and that you have to get permission to buy the product is just one more step towards communism.

Your statement above in red, pretty much sums up why the FDA is involved and my standing on the issue.

No, never said that the substance should be controlled in a matter that we have to get prescriptions.

One step towards communism? No, not at all would it be like communism to have official recommended dosages during usage of the e-cig at one time or day be like communism. Look around, people are having to cut their liquid, get a feel for how much they should take, who to trust and buy from, etc.


This is nicotine not herion.

Nicotine is not ......, but the effects are. Geebus cripes! Use your damn google man!

Why are you not concerned that some kid or adult for that matter, could buy a package of nic gum and put every piece in his mouth and possibly OD on nicotine??

Maybe I am concerned about how much a kid or adult consumes during the usage of nic gum, patches, or anything that contains an addictive drug, it's called caring. But were, not talking about those products.

We are talking about a product that users are confident enough to expose others to unknown risks!

And how do you come to the conclusion that the vapor is harmful to others when all the ingrediants have been tested separately, are used in other products and found to have no harmful effects. (check the independent New Zealand study). If you live within 10 miles of a paper mill like about 20 million people in the US do, you have more chance of being harmed than possibly breathing in vapor that may have trace elements of nicotine and PG.

I am certainly aware of risks when I step out of my house. Hell, I think I take more risks than the average person! Friggin look at my avatar, and tell me if I'm sheltered!

How in the world do you know that the guy your sitting next to, isn't allergic to nicotine...especially if your vaping like a train, much like I do at 36mg. You flopping took away this guys right to choose to sit in a non-vaping/smoking area that doesn't exist! Who are you to assume that it is safe when the product has not gone under testing in a controlled environment! When I say controlled, I mean a considerable amount of time exposing the host and bystander. Not a chemical sheet wrap. That means nothing. It has a poison in it, it is nothing comparable to gum or patches or anything that only affects only the user!


If you have a non smoking friend, try this if he or she is willing. Take the highest E-liquid you have. Shotgun the "Vapor" to your friend. See how many shotguns it takes for he/she to get a buzz from your harmless water vapor.

Your harmless water vapor is a carrier of nicotine. Some are sensitive to this poison. Despite what you think, you have no right to expose people to your water vapor that you believe to be absent of anything harmful. You cannot deny that your water vapor is emitting a drug, period.


Where does this fear come from? You cannot regulate all risk out of life. Let people make informed decisions but don't take away their right to make those decisions. I believe that is one of the reasons why this country was founded.[/quote]

You call it fear, I call it concerns. As stated in another thread. Someone dare light a cigarette or e-cig in the presence of my children or newborn. It will not be taken kindly.

I believe we are arguing on two different subjects, that keep getting intertwined. Yes, we have a right to do what we will to our own bodies....but you don't have the right to extend it to others.

Anyway, believe what you will. I'm all for the E-cig, for other reasons than apparently the popular. I definitely don't want it banned, after having invested more than a half a grand in my first 2 days of Vaping.

Out of curiosity, were you a smoker before you became a vaper? I ask this because your post sounds more like the front page of an anti smoking web site than it does from someone who has only recently converted from cigarettes to vaping.

 

[dedmonwakin]

Out of curiosity, were you a smoker before you became a vaper? I ask this because your post sounds more like the front page of an anti smoking web site than it does from someone who has only recently converted from cigarettes to vaping.

Smoker for 14 years....Daughter asked her daddy to stop. Daddy is too weak, so he founder an alternative.

I really don't think I need to prove myself because I have concerns of "Second hand vaping." Especially when, my children are involved. I have never, exposed my daughter, sons or newborn to tobacco or it's by products willingly. I take precautions, after smoking that most do not when handling their children, like washing hands, smoking outside, never in the vehicle, and so forth. To you, this may sound extreme. To me, it's being a father.

 

[Wildsky]

Smoker for 14 years....Daughter asked her daddy to stop. Daddy is too weak, so he founder an alternative.

I really don't think I need to prove myself because I have concerns of "Second hand vaping." Especially when, my children are involved. I have never, exposed my daughter, sons or newborn to tobacco or it's by products willingly. I take precautions, after smoking that most do not when handling their children, like washing hands, smoking outside, never in the vehicle, and so forth. To you, this may sound extreme. To me, it's being a father.

You need to try not judge everyone else by your standards, we all do different things and believe different things.

I don't vaccinate my children because I don't think shooting them up with formaldahyde, thimerasol, alluminum etc.. is the best decision - I do not judge others on their choice to do exactly that!

 

[dedmonwakin]

You need to try not judge everyone else by your standards, we all do different things and believe different things.

I understand this. I don't expect people to put my children before them, they don't even know them. That's my job.

I don't think people intentionally put people at risk when vaping, when everyone insists that the vapors are harmless. I don't believe I've read anywhere in any advertisement claiming that the vapor is safe, not even in a foreign advertisement. Only that the E-cig doesn't apply to the traditional laws of tobacco cigs and the vapor being safer than analogs.

My issue is, that people want so bad to believe that this device is a saviour and liberated smokers everywhere from rules that only applied to analogs, that they are simply overlooking the common courtesy factor.

You have to be honest. You don't actually believe that you or someone careless don't expose others and self to an unintentional amount of nicotine that isn't common of analog cigarettes.

Most all of us carry liquid nicotine where ever we go. Most all of us have sucked in their fair share of liquids at a daily basis, on top of vapors(hell I'm high right now from the 5 e-cigs in my mouth for your picture.)

Alot of us who aren't near a water faucet, wipe excess off their hands on their clothing, nearby objects, or anything else that exposes bystanders to it, "cross contamination."

Sure dropper bottles are used with the best intention to save not only money, but control the liquid. But, crap happens. How do you grant people a choice to avoid contact with this liquid, when they can't even see it?

There are so many variables with dealing with liquids, that when/if approved...subject people to the drug, unintentionally...and that's not even dealing with vapors.

I hate to make it sound like the e-liquid is a contagious bacteria, but so many variables are being subjected to people, who may play a role on the deciding factor of the E-cig. My concern, is people giving the e-cig a negative image before we even had a fighting chance.

Going into public establishments and vaping in areas that are not even common to smokers like the ER is outrageous. It's like walking into someones home and putting your shoes up on their couch, better yet...licking your finger and sticking it in their plate of food.

 

[Rookie]

You can be polite and explain it to them without being nasty about it. Better to persuade them than antagonize them. Keep stirring them up and they will find a way to tax it or ban it. "In your face" confrontations don't help our cause.

 

[Oldnamenomore]

I dunno why people should get .... hurt over it it doesn't smell and it poses no threat to them

 

[Rookie]

The instant you get the government involved, no matter how well intentioned, it's all downhill from there.

 

[Alexander]

I agree with dedmonwakin on all points. The idea of an industry "best practices" self-regulation board is fine, but where is it? The early bird gets the worm, and the bird here is the FDA and Health Canada and the NHS and whatever else. Like dedmon says: we're exchanging information about websites to trust, techniques to practice, tips to stay safe... That's not going to do the trick in the long run. Healthy practices are a goal, sure, but what is really at stake is money in the sense of culpability and lawsuits.

 

[Alanae]

Vaccines? My daughter isn't allowed to receive the DTP shot since she has a medical condition that makes getting pertussis fatal! So is she going to get whooping cough? It's possible, but I know the approved "drug" is fatal to her all the same so I choose to take my chances and not give her the vaccine.

Smoking in front of my children? We always ran outside and smoked in the garage. Now that we vape do we ever vape in the house? Yes we do. We don't sit around and blow the vapor into their faces, but we do vape in the house. My children have been VERY proud of us for switching. We've managed to cut down out nic count by cutting the liquid and are also very proud of our accomplishments. My older children run around telling everyone that we got off analogs and now are using an electronic cigarette instead. They also tell their friends how proud they are of us for making the switch and for trying to get off analogs as well as the e-cig *eventually*.

I think the one thing that is clear in this whole conversation is the different views. I accept that people might not agree with my vaping, or my vaping in the house, or people who vape in public. The one thing I do know however is that we all have to stick together whether we agree with the others points of views or not. We are still a community of vapors and as such we need to stick together as a community even if we don't always agree. I don't "agree" with my husbands need to vape anywhere and everywhere since I am not the confrontational type, but I also won't shun him for it. It's a personal decision and I am glad to see others taking interest simply BECAUSE he vapes in public.

This is no different than any other group of people trying to agree on big issues. Do I smoke pot? No, but I have friends that do and I don't have an issue with it - it's their choice. Do I drink every day? No, but I have friends that do and it's fine with me since it's their choice. I just want to have CHOICES in life. I want the right to choose my own path and not be shunned or slammed for it whether it be from the general public or from people on this forum within the vaping community. It's back to tolerance, which none of us had when we smoked analogs. I'm finding alot more tolerance from people now that I vape. I have had alot of questions about it, and not once has anyone been rude or snotty - mostly it's just curiosity.

I will not however condemn myself to the "smoking area". I don't like the smell of analogs much anymore and I am NOT a smoker. Why should I make the change to vaping for my health and the health of my children just to continue poisoning myself with second hand smoke from other smokers because I can't get past the mindset that I myself am NOT a smoker?

Instead I will vape, and teach others about vaping, and raise awareness. Once we got our ecigs and got our feet on the ground we started telling everyone we knew who smokes all about our change to vaping. I will not be ashamed about vaping as I was with smoking analogs. I'd rather stand up straight and know that I made a change for the better. I will not apologize for making a change that I still feel is a healthier alternative. I realize that not everyone will agree with my opinions and that's fine, but I will hold my head up high and not feel ashamed and hide any longer. I'm tired of being treated like a second class citizen and I just simply won't take it anymore.

 

[wv2win]

........Instead I will vape, and teach others about vaping, and raise awareness. Once we got our ecigs and got our feet on the ground we started telling everyone we knew who smokes all about our change to vaping. I will not be ashamed about vaping as I was with smoking analogs. I'd rather stand up straight and know that I made a change for the better. I will not apologize for making a change that I still feel is a healthier alternative. I realize that not everyone will agree with my opinions and that's fine, but I will hold my head up high and not feel ashamed and hide any longer. I'm tired of being treated like a second class citizen and I just simply won't take it anymore.

I agree with you wholeheartidly. If we vape only where smokers use analogs then we are telling everyone by our own actions that vaping is exactly the same as smoking, that it should be shunned, that it should be banned, that it is bad, that we should be ridiculed and that we are second class citizens. Actions speak louder than words. Be polite but be an intelligent, informed advocate for vaping.

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

Excellent points, Alanae, and congratulations to you and your husband.

I told all the smokers I know about vaping. Reactions varied from 'wow' to 'dumb'. However, from my point of view, they're not really the people who need to know about this, since none of them tried to interfere with me, or stop me indulging in a perfectly legal activity.

Serial disapprovers are the ones who should see this. I'm not seeking their approval but I am quite invested in making them understand that they don't own the environment I live in.

Emp

 

[sherid]

Smoker for 14 years....Daughter asked her daddy to stop. Daddy is too weak, so he founder an alternative.

I really don't think I need to prove myself because I have concerns of "Second hand vaping." Especially when, my children are involved. I have never, exposed my daughter, sons or newborn to tobacco or it's by products willingly. I take precautions, after smoking that most do not when handling their children, like washing hands, smoking outside, never in the vehicle, and so forth. To you, this may sound extreme. To me, it's being a father.

Well, I've been a mother for a couple of decades, and I certainly have not done anything to put my kids in harm's way. I am happy to say that they are good, intelligent, and healthy young people. I am happy that you have found an alternative, but from my reading of your extreme concerns about the effects of vaping; you might be happier and less fearful of another alternative like snus or dissolvable tobacco to get you smoke free. There are other wonderful parents out there, you know. And, yes, you do sound extreme, or perhaps preachy. I, for example, would neither vape or smoke around babies and small children. On the other hand, I would not worry if I did not wash my hands after smoking a cig. You sound like a believer in 3rd hand smoke as well. It is difficult to understand how anyone with such a hatred of cigarettes would smoke for 14 years. It is equally difficult to understand how anyone with such a fear of vaping would spend hundreds of dollars to take up vaping.