BWB Malty Toffee Clone

[Katcandoo]

Backwoods Brew Malty Toffee has been my daily vape since January 2014 (longer than I thought!). My last cigarette was 4/15/2013, almost 4 years ago. I spent a lot of money with a lot of vendors on a ton of flavors - lots and lots of trial and error in the beginning, on not only flavors, but PG/VG ratios. I break out in hives with high PG. Ugh. Also, different vendors use different nic bases. I thought nic base was nic base. But some vendors' bases cause me to wheeze in my lungs.

I finally found the perfect replacement for 30 years of the same brand of cigs in Malty Toffee. I have a few other flavors from other vendors that I switch up during the day so I don't get vaper's tongue, but their Malty Toffee has been a life saver.

Sadly, BWB went out of business recently. I'm down to my last 40ml of MT, so I'm venturing into DIY. I've ordered a starter DIY kit from DIYFS, and found a clone recipe for MT.

If anyone has a better recipe, or helpful tips for a newbie to DIY, I'd love to hear them!

8% Toffee VG (DIYFS)
2.5% English Toffee PG (DIYFS) or (LA)
2.5 French Vanilla (DIYFS)
1% Holy Vanilla (DIYFS)
1% Butter Cream (DIYFS)
30% EM 10% (TPA) or (supersaturated EM solution)
55% Your combination of VG and VG nic base

 

[Richu75]

Not familiar with BWB, but I can tell you 30% of EM is way too much.

 

[IDJoel]

I believe credit for this recipe belongs to @Lyndagayle. I went searching for her original post but the closest I could get is here: Clone Recipes
Perhaps she gave it a different name (out of respect to the commercial owner).

Additionally (in reference to the 30% EM) I found this thread which documents some ECF members efforts to develop a clone. There is even some input from BWB owner @Dkrom68. It really doesn't offer a finished clone but it is interesting to see how the clone kinda/sorta developed. Here is that link: Recipe for BWB malty toffee and malty

One last thought on the 30%: While I too have never before seen a recipe with that much EM; I have to say it isn't totally out in left field. @Hoosier comments in his blog about EM:
"EM = Ethyl Maltol. You may as well tie one hand behind your back if you do not have some of this in your stash of stuff. (Two flavoring companies that I know of also sell this in a 10% solution as Cotton Candy Flavoring.) I use EM in a 10% solution and here is what it does:

1. Tiny Bit (A fraction of 1% in your mix) - Gives a "body" to the vapor and may slightly reduce sharp notes.
2. A Bit (Close to 1% +/- in your mix) - As above but will take the edge off sharp notes and may very slightly sweeten.
3. A Bunch (1%-5% of your total mix) - As above plus sweeten
4. A Load (10%+ of your total mix) - Cotton Candy flavor"

As EM is being used as the core "flavor," and not just a "sweetener," perhaps 30% is(?) required. Just a thought...

One thing DIY has taught me is to never say "never" until I have tried it. And then it is only never for me.

Side thought: as this is an older recipe (fewer flavor sources, not as large an experience pool) it would be interesting to hear from @Lyndagayle, or any of the other early users; if they still find this the "best" representation of BWB Malty Toffee, or if there have been improvements. Hopefully some will see this and chime in.

Oh, and I guess it would be polite to add the following disclaimer: I have vaped neither the original BWB FT, or ANY clone thereof, so I have no dog in this hunt.

 

[man00ver]

I also don't know this liquid. But if I were new to DIY, I'd want to try this simpler recipe first (by BB @ ELR):

Kinda Malty Kinda Toffee
6% 15% EM <-- I expect this would translate to 9% TPA Cotton Candy/EM 10%
2% Caramel Candy (TPA)
2% English Toffee (LA)
2% Malted Milk (TPA)
The author recommends adding 1-2 drops of malt vinegar per 5mL of mix (3 drops/5mL for extra malty).

You could get a much higher VG ratio in this one, up to ~85%.
And I must say, I'm strongly tempted to give it a whirl myself. I've never heard of using this much EM, either.

 

[IDJoel]

I also don't know this liquid. But if I were new to DIY, I'd want to try this simpler recipe first (by BB @ ELR):

Kinda Malty Kinda Toffee
6% 15% EM <-- I expect this would translate to 9% TPA Cotton Candy/EM 10%
2% Caramel Candy (TPA)
2% English Toffee (LA)
2% Malted Milk (TPA)
The author recommends adding 1-2 drops of malt vinegar per 5mL of mix (3 drops/5mL for extra malty).

You could get a much higher VG ratio in this one, up to ~85%.
And I must say, I'm strongly tempted to give it a whirl myself. I've never heard of using this much EM, either.

Interesting recipe @man00ver,
I don't know how much I buy into the "simpler is better for the inexperienced mixer" idea when the goal is to get closest to a known taste. Mixing (measuring) is mixing. If I can correctly measure one ingredient I should be able to measure 6, or 9, or 20. Certainly, if I am creating my own recipe (not just following a "proven"recipe), then there will be less room for error (bad combinations or inappropriate ratios) by keeping it simple. But with the OP saying they wished to replicate a known product, I am not so sure I would recommend a year+ old recipe that has no feedback over one that has been cited on multiple forum sites with positive feedback. (FWIW: I looked too and the only recipes I could find were Lyndagayle's and the one you posted by BB.)

If you looked at the second link I included in my post (Recipe for BWB...) those who knew the original profile played with malted milk in the early trials but decided later that that was not the case. The consensus seemed to be that the "Malty" was a nod to the ethyl maltol as opposed to an inclusion of some additional "malt" component (though I did see a post supposedly by Lyndagayle on kriticalmass that says she includes 1-2 drops of apple cider vinegar per 5mL however I didn't see that in the ECF threads).

I don't know. As I said; I haven't had ANY Malty Toffee so I HAVE NO IDEA as to what is going to get the OP to where they want to be.

 

[gratefulbuddy]

I am more familiar with BWBs Malty then their Malty Toffee but I can say if I was trying to clone Malty I would just experiment with different percentages of EM.

 

[man00ver]

I don't know how much I buy into the "simpler is better for the inexperienced mixer" idea when the goal is to get closest to a known taste.

Well, sure. And I mean no slight to Lyndagayle or any other mixer working hard towards a clone of a much-beloved liquid.
For myself, I'd do the simple one first for several reasons. I prefer using less flavoring. I'm unfamiliar with DIYFS concentrates (though I gather the Holy Vanilla is a big favorite). I'm curious about using vinegar. And I could use TFA Caramel Candy and Malted Milk in a barrelful of published recipes, so this route appeals to my thrifty instinct.

Of course I don't have @Katcandoo's incentive to make an exact duplicate. Nor would I know how hot-or-cold my result was. But maybe I'd like it anyway, and that goes for Kat too, eh?

Anyway, it's just a little input. Kat may have already purchased the DIYFS ingredients, so the "bird in the hand" principle would win out in that case. Good luck, Kat, and let us know! I'll certainly report if I try the other mix.

 

[IDJoel]

Well, sure. And I mean no slight to Lyndagayle or any other mixer working hard towards a clone of a much-beloved liquid.

I apologize if my previous post sounded critical. You in no way sounded disparaging of anyone, or anyone's efforts.

For myself, I'd do the simple one first for several reasons. I prefer using less flavoring. I'm unfamiliar with DIYFS concentrates (though I gather the Holy Vanilla is a big favorite). I'm curious about using vinegar. And I could use TFA Caramel Candy and Malted Milk in a barrelful of published recipes, so this route appeals to my thrifty instinct.

All very valid considerations.

Of course I don't have @Katcandoo's incentive to make an exact duplicate. Nor would I know how hot-or-cold my result was. But maybe I'd like it anyway, and that goes for Kat too, eh?

You and me both. That was why my initial reply tried to steer Kat toward those that did.

You bring up a very good point; Kat may well find something they like as much, or even better, than the original. Open minds most often reap the greatest rewards.

Anyway, it's just a little input. Kat may have already purchased the DIYFS ingredients, so the "bird in the hand" principle would win out in that case. Good luck, Kat, and let us know! I'll certainly report if I try the other mix.

And good input too! I only hoped to offer an alternate (not "better", and certainly not "correct") way of looking at the task. Again, I am genuinely sorry if I came across to you, or anyone else reading this thread, sounding the least bit critical, or confrontational. That was not at all my desire.

I have always found your posts to be thoughtful, well presented, and quite informative. I value your contributions and thank you for choosing to share them.

 

[Katcandoo]

Thank you everyone! I also saw @Lindagayle's recommendation for adding 1 drop of apple cider vinegar per 5 mls. I'm going to play around with the ingredients and see what I come up with. You're right - I may find something new I like better!

 

[Katcandoo]

And thanks for link to the MT recipe thread here on ECF. It didn't show up in my search.

 

[IDJoel]

And thanks for link to the MT recipe thread here on ECF. It didn't show up in my search.

No worries. Lyndagayle's user name doesn't "pop up" for reasons unknown to me. I know users can choose to "limit" their presence on ECF but I have never explored what those options might be. I only found what I did by doing keyword searches and just got lucky. I hope you find something that works!

 

[Katcandoo]

That other thread on BWB was extremely helpful! Don gave some helpful hints, so I at least know what direction to go.

 

[man00ver]

I apologize if my previous post sounded critical.

No need! It didn't. I was less reacting to what you said, and more in response to my realizing that the other recipe had a long history of community development. You helped with that realization, but not in a confrontational way.

 

[Ricksha]

@Katcandoo you got me at Toffee. I was in a similar position years ago with a juice called Toffee Coffee, made by a vendor in San Diego. As people became more aware of the health risks of the "custardy" and "buttery" notes in flavorings, a lot of vendors switched to the more healthy alternatives we have in flavors today. At the time a lot of flavors on the market changed (e.g. the demise of the original Cereal Killa) But it meant that my absolute favorite juice changed in profile as well and became just meh. This spurred my interest to start mixing my own juice and I was on a quest for years to come up with the right replacement, specifically the Toffee part. It lead to me coming up with other great juices and my ADV still has Toffee as a main ingredient. So I can appreciate your dilemma. A few considerations for you:

EM (Ethyl Maltol): Get the ingredients to make your own, it's super cheap and super easy to make. Just search ECF or the Web for mixing instructions. Most of the sites sells
the crystals. Mix at 10% solution which is the perfect ratio. That way you know you're dealing with the purest ingredient. I personally stay away from commercial Cotton Candy's as it typically includes other sweetners and doesnt taste like pure EM to me. I must agree with others that 30% is abnormal. At that high% you'll gunk up your atty in a matter of days. If the recipe does have a high % EM start with 6-10%.

Toffee: I've tried them all and Lorann's is the best IMO. They have 2 products, Toffee and English Toffee. English Toffee contains alcohol which you have to get rid of before using. It needs to be supported by a Caramel to really taste like a toffee. I rarely use it in a mix calling for a toffee as it is tricky to work with. Their Toffee is however a bang-on flavor, gives a thick, somewhat malty, full round and deep toffee flavor. And it smells great right out of the bottle. Use sparingly (2-4%) as it is a strong flavor and a coil gunker at high %'s. It's a great Toffee.

Supporting flavors: to support the flavor profiles of EM and Toffee you could add a small amount of a Caramel, or a Vanilla (1-2% max).

Something like this would give you a good baseline to work with:

• EM - 10%
• LA Toffee - 2 %
• TFA Caramel Candy - 2%
• Total flavor 14%

BTW, I dont know BWB Malty Toffee. Is the juice dark in color ?

 

[Katcandoo]

Thank you for all the helpful information! It's not dark like caramel, more of an amber color.

 

[Ricksha]

@Katcandoo this recipe intrigued me so I quickly whipped up 2 x 30 ml samples this morning. Please know that I have not tasted or smelled BWB's Matly Toffee so I have no reference to the taste profile. But I had to do this to satisfy my own curiosity:

V1
EM (10% dilution) - 10%
LA Toffee - 3%
FA Butterscotch - 2%
TFA Bavarian Cream - 2%
Total flavoring - 17%

V2
EM (10% dilution) - 10%
LA Toffee - 4%
TFA Bavarian Cream - 2%
Total flavoring - 16%

Mixed at 10% EM as this seems to be what everyone worked with. I did not have Caramel Candy so used Butterscotch as a replacement. After a quick taste I remembered that FA Butterscotch is quite sharp and needs to be smoothed out so added the Bavarian Cream. This then led me to mix V2, bumped the Toffee a bit with only Bavarian cream for a bit of richness over the Toffee and EM.

Considering the somewhat simple recipe, my initial thoughts were that this may be a shake and vape mix, but its not. The EM is strong, leaves an almost honey-like taste on the tongue. It makes sense with so much EM in the juice. Toffee is more pronounced with V2. I reckon the recipe should probably rest a 3-day steep. Will update again when I wake these guys up from their rest.

But let me tell you, this thing just smells bloody wonderful. What with the great respective smells of EM, Toffee and Bavarian cream you can't expect anything else. My neighbor actually came over to ask me what we were baking.

(PS - vaped in an Avacado tank, fresh cotton @ 65w)

 

[man00ver]

@Ricksha - did you ever try the Caramel Toffee from Hangsen? I've put it in my cart at BCF, since they don't carry the Lorann toffee flavors (and my curiousity about this thread is moving from idle to active).

 

[SteveS45]

For those looking for the Brews flavors check Backwoods Blends for similar or maybe even the same flavors.

 

[man00ver]

Unfortunately, Backwoods Blends carries no Malty Toffee. Nor anything with malt or toffee. But hey, they've got Chicken and Waffle!

 

[SteveS45]

Send them a message maybe they will add it.