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Can the protection be removed on positive side,my cell will charge but only reads 1.5-2.0volts

Discussion in 'Mom and Pop Vapor Shop' started by roberted5, Oct 13, 2013.

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  1. roberted5

    roberted5 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2010
    The protection device on my Trustfire went out.Cell will charge but with a voltmeter it will only deliver 1.5-2.0 volts,reads 1.9-2.1 volts but charger will read that it is delivering 4.19-4.2 volts.
    I will get using Zmax V3 screen but only for a second,I'm using thread conductive and I have a copper washer under spring for good ground.

    What are the dangers on non protective cells?Zmax directions say to use an unprotected cell,but it seems everyone uses protected cells.

    Can someone provide a link to removing protection cap?
    Can protection be replaced be replaced?Only 10-15 cycles on a new cell,don't really want to toss it.I can see protection cap,I cut a little of heat-shrink away and there is the protection cap.How or can it be removed?
  2. roberted5

    roberted5 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2010
    I removed it and it now works but it seems time limit is now removed.Instead of shutting down every 8 seconds it will keep producing vapor.Is there any other shut down in Zmax or just the protection on negative side.A few chips and resisitors must shut down device or battery every so many seconds??
    Cell can get warm,I guess I need to either replace protection cap or toss cell away.
    Any other way to protect Zmax or cell?
  3. pwyll

    pwyll Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    You probably need to throw the cell away. The problem is that even an "unprotected battery" is a battery that's built from a cell, and removing the protection from a LiIon battery leaves you a raw cell, not a battery--it would still need to be rebuilt with new caps and insulator to be a battery.

    The Zmax, as a variable voltage/wattage device actually has the over-current, under-current and short-circuit protection built into the device itself, which is why they suggest using unprotected batteries. Read the fourth and fifth paragraphs of this post: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/mom-pop-vapor-shop/319932-introduction-batteries-101-a.html to get a little bit of an idea of the difference between protected and unprotected batteries as they pertain to vaping.

    Now this post, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/mom-pop-vapor-shop/478416-pvs-apvs-mods-e-cigs-101-a.html, paying attention to the parts about the Electronic APV's.

    It will really help to understand my points in the following paragraph if you're already familiar with the information in the "intro to APVs" post.

    Now, the ECF has decided that it is easier to make a blanket statement that "protected batteries are always safer" than to try to explain when unprotected batteries are actually just as safe (if not safer) than protected ones. For the most part this is true since most people new to vaping already have a lot to absorb. However, the variable voltage and variable wattage devices are becoming more and more standard, and the fact is that protected batteries do not work as well as unprotected batteries in these units because they already have a better version of the same protection schemes built-in. The over-current, under-current and short-circuit protection is a function of being able to regulate and vary the voltage and/or wattage delivered from the battery, so the battery's protection is, at best, unnecessary. On the other hand, unprotected batteries have a higher C rating so the device can deliver more current (whether for lower resistance *omizers or for higher voltage settings) without compromising the battery. The devices are designed to use IMR batteries. Using protected batteries in a variable voltage/wattage device will, at best, limit the functionality of the device to less than its design limits (although most vapers wouldn't notice this). At worst, though, the protection in the battery can "conflict" with the protection in the device and prevent it from working (at least with that battery) or even end up permanently tripping the protection circuitry of the battery (effectively destroying the battery itself, though not likely hurting the device at all).

    I was going to put a paragraph in the APV post about which batteries are best for which types of Mods/APVs, but I decided against it because it would be recommending the use of unprotected batteries in those devices used to protect them and the ECF has a blanket policy against recommending the use of unprotected batteries, ever. So the following should in no way be construed to be a RECOMMENDATION of behaviour on the part of Mom and Pop Vapor Shop--that follows this sentence is purely my personal opinion:

    Any device whose manufacturer recommends using IMR/unprotected batteries will work better with IMR batteries. And IMR batteries are much better, and far safer, than unprotected LiION batteries.

    IMR batteries can be perfectly safe in mechanical mods, as long as you have researched battery safety and know what you are doing.

    Protected LiIon batteries should always be used in un-regulated electrical devices, and most regulated (but non-variable) ones.
  4. roberted5

    roberted5 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2010
    Thank you very much.
    I dropped the battery and I probably busted a chip??
    I do like my Ultrafire.It says it's a BCR 18650 3000mAh and it does work very well.My Trustfire I dropped several times so I messed it up myself.

    I am learning more and more.APV's do work very well,care must be taken.
    I'll lok around for some IMR's.
  5. pwyll

    pwyll Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Yes, I've lost a few batteries to dropping. At one time the common suggestion here (on ECF) was to throw out any battery you've dropped, whether it still works or not, just in case. The protection circuitry in them is not very robust and the fear is that it might be compromised enough to lose it's protective quality without being so damaged as to stop working altogether. While I try to be very careful and not drop batteries, I am not rich enough to just throw them away every time one falls. I've still had at least four stop working from a drop-p-one of them I never even got to use. I charged it up and tested it, but then dropped it while trying to install it in the mod. It wouldn't fire. I tested with a volt meter and it showed something like 2.4 volts, so I put it back on the charger which indicated it was fully charged. It was trash :(

    As far as what you did to damage it, there's probably no telling. You could have busted a chip, but the little things are so tiny it may have just created a short from to traces being compacted together, or one of the wires may have come loose, or...
  6. roberted5

    roberted5 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2010
    I got some 10mg in both Dragon's breath and Bud's blend.Much better,side effects are fading.I under-estimated APV's and even my older Ego 510's.
    Bud's blend,I was at very bottom of bottle of my 18mg bottle,and wow it was great.
    I'm very temped to dump a bottle in a tapered bowl to speed up steeping.Increasing the amount of air that can hit liquid may speed up steeping??
  7. pwyll

    pwyll Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Perhaps. I've never tried that, but I do know that you can greatly decrease the steeping time (from about a week to just under 24 hours) with Calipitter Chow by putting the sealed container in a cup or mug and then filling it with hot water (from the hottest your tap will put out to straight from an automatic drip-style coffee maker), letting the water cool, shaking vigourously, then letting it sit over-night. Don't know if it would work with tobacco-based flavours or not, but I can't see why it wouldn't...
  8. roberted5

    roberted5 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2010
    Good idea.I give it a try.
    I think removing cap/fuse makes my Zmax works better,but I'm going against vendors advice so I'm using at my own risk.
    I do like Dlish very well and it seems to agree with my chemistry,but steeped Bud's Blend is very good.

    I wasn't able to get a Bandit tank but switching to 10mg is working very well.Sub tanks I do like a little better but my big tank is working good too. As soon as I find my favorite blend,Bud's so far is my #1 and M and P's does taste better than others I've tried.
    I have noticed the smell of glycol.Is glycol and additive?
  9. pwyll

    pwyll Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Propylene Glycol is the "PG" in e-juice / nicquid / e-liquid / e-tc. The Vegetable Glycerin is also called "Glycerol," and I have seen a few places refer to it as "Vegetable Glycol." I know the PG is glycol but I don't know if the VG is actually a glycol or is just called that in some places. It is either PG, VG or a combination of both that form the basis of the juice, so it's actually the flavour and nicotine that are the "additives" :)

    PEG (Polyethylene Glycol) was the basis of the original liquids, but it actually is controversial and if you can still find it in a manufactured juice it will be from China--even most Chinese companies have stopped using it by now.
  10. roberted5

    roberted5 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2010
    My Zmax works the best in VV mode.I don't know if it's because I cut off caps or if after time Zmax starts to change it's behavior,but in any event I do like my Zmax.I don't know whether to get another one or try another APV???
    I'm still learning about APV's,but if I do get another one what is another good APV?
    I can make my own APV but I'm short on time and my 1st will be more for testing for I have another power supply idea.
    If I made my own APV what can I use to disappate heat?I'll use a fuse.
  11. pwyll

    pwyll Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    What kind of heat build-up are you worried about?

    You probably want to try Modding Forum. You'll have a lot more relevant information available there, and you'll be able to get better answers quicker :)
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