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Casper City WY drafts smoking ban, smokefreE-cigs on ban wishlist

Discussion in 'Legislation News' started by Tom09, Feb 15, 2012.

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  1. Tom09

    Tom09 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 22, 2009
  2. six

    six Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2011
    under the blue sky
    I'll be surprised if any such thing passes in Casper. Wyoming is a place where you can get liqueur, tobacco, and prescription drugs from drive through windows, and open containers of alcohol in vehicles is not just accepted, but normal behavior. I was in a bar in Casper a few weeks ago that still has a pair of cigarette vending machines and has single cigars sold by the cash register. The entire state is open range so you can drive cattle through any town you want to and let them graze in people's lawns. About 60% of the vehicles on the road are pickup trucks and 97% of those have gun racks in the rear window, and almost 100% of those racks are populated with rifles.

    Laws and ordinances restricting any freedoms the residents consider to be normal meet stiff opposition in Wyoming.
  3. TennDave

    TennDave Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 19, 2010
    Knoxville, TN
    Page 24 is about e-cigs and reading it made me raging mad- So many lies on that page.
    Someone needs to write these guys and straighten this out.
    Here is what it says:

    E-Cigarettes are battery-powered nicotine inhalation devices that claim to deliver nicotine to the user
    through a vaporized propylene glycol solution. Manufactures and retailers are making unproven health
    claims about this product.

    As of April 1, 2010 the importation of e-cigarettes was banned indefinitely due to a unanimous ruling by
    the U.S. Court of Appeals. The FDA has warned that the use of e-cigarettes can cause potentially serious
    symptoms including racing pulse, dizziness, slurred speech, mouth ulcers, and heartburn. –E-Cigarette

    Imports Banned Indefinitely. Actions on Smoking and Health. April 1, 2010.
    The FDA has tested e-cigarettes and found that they contain carcinogens including nitrosamines, and
    toxic chemicals including diethylene glycol, used in antifreeze. -Summary of Results: Laboratory Analysis of
    Electronic Cigarettes Conducted By FDA. July 22, 2009.

    Currently the FDA does not monitor or license e-cigarettes, and considers them illegal. E-cigarettes have
    already been banned in Australia, Brazil, Canada, Israel, Mexico, Panama, and Singapore and restricted
    in Denmark, Finland, Malaysia, Netherlands, and New Zealand.

    Allowing e-cigarettes causes confusion when implementing a smoke-free policy. An employee is forced
    to determine whether or not a customer is smoking a cigarette or an e-cigarette, they are then forced to
    explain why one is allowed and not the other. Prohibiting both makes enforcement and compliance
    easier for everyone.

    T h e r e i s n o s c i e n t i f i c e v i d e n c e t h a t e - c i g a r e t t e s c a n h e l p s m o k e r s q u i t .
    -Eissenberg, T, "Electronic nicotine delivery devices: ineffective nicotine delivery and craving suppression after acute
    administration," Tobacco Control 19:87-88, 2010.
  4. TennDave

    TennDave Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 19, 2010
    Knoxville, TN
    I should have gone to bed, but that "wish list" just got me raving.
    I put this together and sent it to the reporter of the article mentioned above:

    I read with interest your article on the proposed smoking ban in Casper City.
    I am very happy that more and more smoking bans are going into effect across the country because no one needs to be enhaling very harmful second hand smoke. The statistics and research that the city council outlines about the harm of cigarette smoking and health effects etc. was very impressive.

    I smoked for 30 years, 2 packs a day and so I know what kind of damage smoking can do and second hand smoke as well. That said, I was finally able to stop smoking by switching to smokefreE-Cigarettes or E-cigs. I had tried every other way to quit over a dozen serious tries and never was able to quit (patches, lozengers, gum, chantix, even hypnosis)- but e-cigs worked. I have now been smoke free for 15 months and my health is greatly improved. I'm sure you'll be hearing more about these and from other users of e-cigs. I have also been able to pursuade several of my friends to quit smoking after years and years of failed attempts with the aid of e-cigs. I have literally seen these save the lives of my friends and mine as well.

    I loved what I was seeing in Casper City's "wish list" until I got to page 24. I couldn't believe that they listed e-cigs as something they want to also ban. I researched long and hard before I took the plunge- yes, I had also read of the FDA's findings in the few poorly made e-cig cartridges they tested from China back in 2009. I also found that there were 8 independent studies on the same "evidence" that the FDA had found and that the conclusions of the studies were that the amount of toxins found in the badly made cartridges were the same levels or less than the very nicotine patches that the FDA had already approved for smoking cessation. Since then there have been many other studies showing how much better SmokefreE-Cigarettes are over Combustible Cigarettes- and the e-cig products themselves are better today than they were back then. Also, although the FDA did stop their importation for a short time, that restriction is no longer in effect. The two companies that were under fire by the FDA, fought back and in 2011 won against the FDA in a higher federal court. The preciding judge, Judge Leon declared that the FDA did not have jurisdiction over e-cigarettes and that as long as e-cig companies didn't make pharmaceutical claims, they could be imported? I'm not sure why, but this little fact is left out of the City Council's info. Anyway, long story short- much of the information about SmokefreE-Cigarettes that is on page 24 is either completely incorrect or is outdated. For one, e-cigarette makers are not allowed to make health claims or they can't sell them and the idea that employers wont be able to tell the difference between smoke and vapor is ludicrous. You can smell a cigarette burning from a mile away. With SmokeFreE-Cigarettes, by definition, there is no smoke so you don't smell anyting burning- thus there is no second hand smoke either. I have used my e-cig in many places and no one has ever complained of it smelling like anyting, much less a burning cigarette. The vapor might look like smoke for an instant but disappates quickly- after all, it's only water vapor. If you hold the vapor in for a few seconds, there isn't even vapor to expelled. So, I'm still shocked that the City Council wants to ban smokefreE-cigarettes too. All I can think of is that they are either completely ignorant about smokefreE-cigarettes or someone is giving them bad information to decieve the public.

    Also, the last part that mentions Dr. Eisenburg's research is also outdated- and is taken out of context. His most recently published study concludes that e-cigs ARE effective and that they are much safer compared to combusting and smoking tobacco that they could be a true help to someone wanting to quit smoking.

    I just wanted to put in my 2cents here about what I saw as very innacurate information. I read a study recently- that somewhere upwards of 80% of those who switched to smokefreE-cigarettes have been able to stay off of combustible tobacco. I really feel that in these combustable tobacco bans, if smokefreE-cigs are also included, that the public will get the wrong message about what could be potentially an instrument to save lives, being banned as well. Cigarette smokers who might have switched to a safer alternative won't as they'll also see incorrectly that e-cigs are in the same boat as combustible tobacco.

    The more I read, the more I learn where the FDA and the other organizations that want these bans (AHA, ALA, etc.) are coming from- they get funding from big pharmaceutical companies and the way things have been going with smokeFreE-cigs becoming more and more popular and being more effective than the patches, gum, etc, it is taking away their funding. Following the money is a real eye opener. Thanks for letting me rant. I feel I have just scratched the surface about my concerns and I really wanted to tell you more of how my life and how the lives of my friends have improved- like my friend Pete who has COPD and no longer needs medication after he switched to smokefreE-cigarettes but I'll wait on those stories if/when I hear back from you.

    One last thing- Let me suggest that you do some research and share the "other side of the story" concerning bans on smokefreE-cigs. It would make a great article and would be educational to the public as well. A good place to look is here: and The Consumer Advocates for Smoke Free Alternatives CASAA | The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association There is so much research out there now that shows that these really do work (although the companies that make or sell them can't advertise them as such), and they are much safer than combustible cigarettes. I feel that they have saved my life and the lives of many many others and pose no health risks what-so-ever to anyone who may be around someone who is using one.
    Best regards,
    David Emxxxx
  5. BoiseMike

    BoiseMike Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2009
    Boise, ID USA
    And here I was thinking I'd move to Wyoming when the liberal control freaks were done screwing up Idaho. Just can't escape it.
  6. Vocalek

    Vocalek CASAA Activist ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 7, 2009
    Springfield, VA
  7. TennDave

    TennDave Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 19, 2010
    Knoxville, TN
    And it's a true shame- the very organizations that are suppose to be the watchdogs of health for our nation...and I truly despise the fact that they made up a kids organization to further their lies:
    American Cancer Society = Cancer
    American Heart Association = Heart Disease
    American Lung Association = Lung Disease
    Campaign for Tobacco‐Free Kids = Using kids to do do the above's dirty work to continue sickness and dying in large avoidable numbers.
  8. TennDave

    TennDave Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 19, 2010
    Knoxville, TN
    Got this email response. Anyone want to respond to it or give me ideas of how to respond?
    Btw, here email addy is: Kelly.Byer@Trib.Com

    Hi David,

    Thanks for taking the time to comment. When I spoke to Rachel Bailey before the last meeting, it was my understanding that the main reason they wanted e-cigarettes included in a ban was because of the confusion it could cause if other smokers see someone using an e-cigarette in a non-smoking establishment. They fear it will be more difficult to enforce a ban if e-cigarettes are included.

    I encourage you to contact Smokefree Natrona County for more information. As soon as I know when the next meeting will be, it will also be in the paper and should be open for discussion before the council shortly.


    Kelly Byer

    City government reporter

    Casper Star-Tribune
  9. TennDave

    TennDave Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 19, 2010
    Knoxville, TN
    I sent this response for now. I'll write her again.

    Thanks Kelly,
    It's funny that she says it would be hard to enforce. Actually, she is right- you can't smell the vapor so it would be hard to enforce. LOL. But to make it illegal is really not helping anyone. I think there is a good compromise. I know that at my work I have the blessings of my boss to use my electronic smoke-free cigarette. Maybe allow it if and only if the one using the e-cig is forthcoming about using it. Of course there are employers and public places that don't want you to use it in their establishment. I go to a sushi bar that doesn't want me doing it at their counter so I don't- it's common sense too. I always ask before using mine anywhere that I don't already have approval. To make the use illegal would be throwing out the bathwater sort of speak to save the baby... Just my opinon. I'll respond with a better though out answer to this issue in the near future.

    Thanks for getting back to me!
  10. Striker911

    Striker911 Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 7, 2012
    Mountain Home, AR
    Lol "can cause heartburn" Better outlaw the foods that cause that too. ....ers.
  11. Placebo Effect

    Placebo Effect Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 19, 2008
    I feel terrible for the poor health and law enforcement officers that have to deal with people drinking non-alcoholic beer in public.

    Actual investigation is so hard :(
  12. TennDave

    TennDave Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 19, 2010
    Knoxville, TN
    Well, that just goes to show- don't pass laws you can't enforce!
  13. TennDave

    TennDave Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 19, 2010
    Knoxville, TN
    Btw, I looked up Smokefree Natrona County.
    They have a Facebook page: Smokefree Natrona County | Facebook
    Also more info here (if anyone wants to try to deal with these apparent ANTZ): Natrona, Wyo. stands up for smokefree workplaces (warning- they have all the typical supporters- the ALA, AHA, etc). The nice thing is, there is no mention of e-cigs on their website at all.... Yet.
    Oh, and there is also a list of city council members on their website!

    Now's your chance Natrona County residents to act preemptively!!
  14. Paul S

    Paul S Full Member

    Jan 6, 2012
    Excelsior, MN
    I tip my hat to Kelly for responding to you. So many reporters today aren't interested in any facts which don't support the agenda which they--or their publishers--are trying to push.

    As for the city council and their concern that someone might "look" like he/she is smoking and "cause confusion," that's a total red herring. How many other things can you think of that are banned by law because they look like they MIGHT constitute something illegal? Can anyone think of ANY?
  15. wyojoe

    wyojoe Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 8, 2011
    I live in Casper and will try to contact Kelly and talk to her. I may try to contact a couple of the city council members and tell them I don't like e-cigs to even be considered in the smoking ban. If anyone has a link to other studies that disproves the bunk coming from the Smokefree Natrona county packet page 24, let me know.
  16. TomCatt

    TomCatt Da Catt Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 8, 2011
    Upland, PA
    Wyojoe, check out the CASAA website ( I think it is)

    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapa-tapa-tapa-tapatalk
  17. XDoctor

    XDoctor Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 19, 2009
    Casper, WY
    I read this last night while I was doing my show on VapeTV. Might be the first time I've ever done an actual spit-take. Casper is my home town, I was born and raised here. I was pretty fired up last night when I read that. I wrote a very good email, offering to educate them on the benefits of ecigs and sent it to every council member and the reporter who broke the story.

    Ten minutes ago I got a phone call from one of the Councilmen. He assures me that he is also a fan of electronic cigarettes and will fight to keep their inclusion out of this bill. He tells me that many things the reporter said were based on what the American Cancer Society wanted in the bill, but it will in fact be scaled back to be a better fit for our town.

    I feel good about this.
  18. yvilla

    yvilla Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 18, 2008
    Rochester, NY
  19. BoiseMike

    BoiseMike Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2009
    Boise, ID USA
    I was under the impression that a better fit for the state of Wyoming was not telling consenting adults what they can and can't do. I could be wrong.
    Years ago I saw a t-shirt or bumper sticker that said, "Wyoming. Where it's still legal to act like an adult." I didn't think folks there would take kindly to bans on activities like smoking. While I think it's good to fight for exemptions for e-cigs in these laws I think we really need to fight for private property rights as well. Because I'm sure that once they take care of eliminating smoking from all public places, they WILL be back for the e-cigs. And the smokers won't be defending us because we let the government walk all over them. Power-hungry nanny statists won't be happy until they have created their little Utopia where nothing offends them and all dissent is squashed.
  20. XDoctor

    XDoctor Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 19, 2009
    Casper, WY
    As an update to this, I've been told that the Council will be putting the actual creation of this bill off until April or May.

    Mike, Laramie and Cheyenne already have laws prohibiting smoking in businesses and within 10 feet of a door. Its bound to come here sometime, there isn't much that can be done to stop it.

    In related news, I've decided to run for City Council.
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