Charging batteries

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m.a.t

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Hi guys,
Quick question...
Does charging batteries in a charger will make them last longer than charging them using the USB cable while they are inside the mod ?

The status for batteries after using the USB port is 4.18 for each one ( I am using 3 cells 18650s) but they don't last me a full day, while my friend using only two 18650s plus same wattages i use and they last her full day!!
Any comment?!


Thanks
 

Hawise

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I wouldn't expect different vapers to get the same battery life. It's all a factor of how you vape - how often, what resistance, what power setting, how long your draws are, etc.

A good charger is definitely recommended over charging in-mod, especially for multi-battery mods. Chargers tend to have more safety features and may charge the batteries more evenly, although that can depend on the mod. I don't think the charge would necessarily last any longer, although the batteries' overall lifespan might be higher if charged in a charger.
 
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m.a.t

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I wouldn't expect different vapers to get the same battery life. It's all a factor of how you vape - how often, what resistance, what power setting, how long your draws are, etc.

A good charger is definitely recommended over charging in-mod, especially for multi-battery mods. Chargers tend to have more safety features and may charge the batteries more evenly, although that can depend on the mod. I don't think the charge would necessarily last any longer, although the batteries' overall lifespan might be higher if charged in a charger.


We are using same batteries,Tanks and same wattages plus she does more wattages than I , but how can two batteries last more then three batteries?
 

KenD

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We are using same batteries,Tanks and same wattages plus she does more wattages than I , but how can two batteries last more then three batteries?
What mods are you using? Different mods can have different voltage cutoffs, as well as different chip efficiencies. Also, your friend might vape at a higher wattage but perhaps he/she vapes less frequently. There can be very many variables.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk
 

Hawise

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We are using same batteries,Tanks and same wattages plus she does more wattages than I , but how can two batteries last more then three batteries?

You might vape more than she does. Even taking longer puffs can make a significant difference. Additionally, as @KenD says, your mod might cut off earlier (which can extend your batteries' lifespan) and hers might charge as high as 4.25 V (which is bad for a battery's lifespan), or even higher if it's really unreliable.
 
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Joergl100

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It is a matter of the termination current in the final CV (Constant Voltage)-mode! E.g.: At a charging current of 1000mA it is usually 100mA...at a charging current of 500ma it is usually only 50ma, which will give a few extra-mah! I am charging often wih 2A (MC3000) and adjusted the termination current to 50mA. Standard would be 200mA. At 3 amps it would be 300mA. Always 10%.
 
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m.a.t

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It is a matter of the termination current in the final CV (Constant Voltage)-mode! E.g.: At a charging current of 1000mA it is usually 100mA...at a charging current of 500ma it is usually only 50ma, which will give a few extra-mah! I am charging often wih 2A (MC3000) and adjusted the termination current to 50mA. Standard would be 200mA. At 3 amps it would be 300mA. Always 10%.

I'm not good at calculating that stuff. I just wanna get more vaping time, do I need to get minikin v2 or DNA166 as those two need only two batteries to function?
 

Hawise

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I'm not good at calculating that stuff. I just wanna get more vaping time, do I need to get minikin v2 or DNA166 as those two need only two batteries to function?

Going down to two batteries is very unlikely to increase your vaping time. It will probably decrease it. Most likely, you vape more than your friend does so you use up your batteries faster.
 

Don29palms

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The only mod I have that will last me all day without changing batteries is my Ijoy Maxo. Quad 18650 batteries. I only use Samsung 25r batteries. If I start with fresh batteries in the morning it will last until I get home. All my other mods I have to change my batteries atleast once. Usually at around lunchtime.
 

B.S.

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I'm using Rx2/3 with three batteries in, while she uses Minikin v2.
I'm thinking to get the Minikin now lol

Pardon the reply to a somewhat dated thread ...

(1) So keep your tanks, but swap mods with your friend for a charge, see if your observations follow the units.

(2) You noted you might purchase another or the same unit - did you, and have you any observations on your results?
 

Barkuti

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There's no guarantee a standalone charger will provide any benefits over charging in the mod. Seems certain people tend to believe this way, but this is only as long as you both:
  1. Use a well designed and built standalone charger.
  2. Your mod has problems charging its cells (inadequate charging algorithm, unbalanced charging, overheating, etc).

Both termination current and charge voltage do have an impact over the available cell charge/energy, but in practice slight differences are hardly noticeable. Reference: Test of Battery Charge Termination Test
A 30Q terminated at 100mAh yielded 2895mAh, at 10mAh it was 2921mAh and 2857mAh for 400mA end-current. Very few percent differences.

:)
 

B.S.

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> There's no guarantee a standalone charger will provide any benefits over charging in the mod.

From what I've read / understand, electrically, I believe this is (sufficiently) correct.

However, I think a consistent problem with such statements is the definition of 'benefit'. And therefore any corresponding and opposite (lacking) definition of 'cost'. Neither of which are by necessity restricted to 'electrical characteristics'. So I don't think the statement is wrong (incorrect), but I also don't thing the statement is right (entirely correct).

TL;DR;

If I understand balanced charging, and assuming any amount of unbalance, it will consume more power to bring > 1 cells up to snuff, as 'full' power is applied to everything, and drained (bled off) prior to each (first?) up to snuff cell. (Which implies all cells before a lesser charged one get overcharged somewhat until that cell comes up to spec?) Versus individually (charger) charging cells where only enough power is applied to bring each up to snuff. (At the expense and aggravation of removal from mod, placement in charger, waiting and monitoring for charge, then returning cells to mod. Let alone any resting, or constant surveillance in case of problem.)

Yet, I don't 'want' the added cost of yet another doohickey to monitor (let alone my 'bench' is already full) - although I understand the necessity. I have enough aggravations and distractions in my life already. [I want a magic wand by which things just work as they intuitively should. I've been looking for such a wand for a very long time. In the mean time ... ]

I also want to know (vs assume), that each cell is OK, and their health (mAh capacity wise, for matching pairs) - and the only way to get there is by charger. Drat it all. i.e. Evaluating each cell individually. (I don't trust 'individual' battery icons, being too gross a measure, yet still want them. Better a false positive than no negative.) {Too often, in my 4 NiMh camera flash, only 1 battery is 'poor' and swapping only it out let's me get on with whatever I'm in the middle of - vs knee jerk automatically putting all 4 in the charger.}

In this day and age of recycling, mod charging may be equivalent, but charger charging is more efficient.

And there must be some merit to efficiency over expediency. For one's definition of 'cost', 'merit', 'efficient', and 'expedient'. e.g. Cost (to the world) of additional power (via coal power plant?) vs consumption of one's time in minding the charger.

Simultaneously, one must determine which cost they are willing to bear. For example, it appears worst case to things is shorter battery life - so buy batteries more frequently (?). < CDN$20 per battery vs cost of charger and one's time to mind it ...

Further, if I understand what I've read correctly, there is some merit to occasionally individually charging (in a charger) - say every 10 charges or so. Just as there is merit to occasionally rotating the batteries within the series mod, to improve battery lifespan.

I've also seen where one should keep a battery between 30% - 70% for maximum battery life - however no non-cumbersome means of effecting that is apparent to me. Even if I could set both mod and charger appropriately, it'd be a PITA to do ... and still involve more frequent batt changes - the point of what we're trying to not have to do, in mod charging.

It's not black and white, unfortunately. There are pros and cons to each, and each must judge for themselves which pros / cons and benefits / cost they are willing to seek / bear. And even that isn't B&W - circumstances often dictate different courses of action. e.g. Dead battery, no charger to hand - charge in mod, or don't vape. And, in pass thru mode, as the mod is charging the batteries (at least) between fire presses, one is consuming # of lifespan charging cycles (?) ...

Whither that magic wand ... <sigh>

So:
> There's no guarantee a standalone charger will provide any benefits over charging in the mod.

There may be no benefits, but it will be less efficient. Each will have to judge whether they are willing to bear any costs - however minimal, or not, they might be. e.g. Buying batteries more frequently, such as 1 more per year?, vs the cost and minding of a charger. Or the costs to multiple people of more frequent disposals / recycling - again, what, 1 more per year?

[Myself, I will probably buy an Xtar Dragon, grumbling all the way, suffering the costs and aggravation of such - being the more 'moral' / 'responsible' thing to do. And probably still charging in the mod not infrequently. Everyone has to live with their own definition of 'sufficient'. At a personal cost of X more batteries per year.]
 

Coastal Cowboy

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Battery life is also dependent on the resistance of the coils. Given a fixed wattage, two coils of differing resistance will require different voltages to deliver the wattage requested. Even a seemingly slight difference between the resistance of two coils can make a significant difference in voltage demanded and thus, different battery charge life.
 

KenD

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Battery life is also dependent on the resistance of the coils. Given a fixed wattage, two coils of differing resistance will require different voltages to deliver the wattage requested. Even a seemingly slight difference between the resistance of two coils can make a significant difference in voltage demanded and thus, different battery charge life.
Sorry to contradict, but this isn't true. The wattage determines the amp draw, and therefore battery life, on a regulated mod. The resistance doesn't matter.

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Coastal Cowboy

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Sorry to contradict, but this isn't true. The wattage determines the amp draw, and therefore battery life, on a regulated mod. The resistance doesn't matter.

Oops.

For an electrical engineer, I make a fantastic economist.
 
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