Class Action Exploding Devices

[Shekinahsgroom]

The E-cigarette maker has no control over what battery people buy and use in their devices, or how they handle them. This could only apply to those E-cigs that have built in batteries, and those are generally cheaper devices anyway.

Not entirely accurate. Lawyers are going to attack their failures to disclose the dangers of misuse. Back in the day, there were no warnings. Heck, you were lucky if you got a manual that was even legible let alone any warnings.

And when the smoke clears, the FDA will probably pop-in and set new rules for mods without built-in cells.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if mechs are banned at some point? And you can bet if/when that happens, building your own coils might go with it as well.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

How many actual joyetech devices have malfunctioned causing injury?

I'm not saying they're protected from being sued, but I doubt there are enough cases to form an actual "class."

Do a Google search on all of their products and start counting.
You're gonna have to go back quite a ways though, roughly 2007 if I remember right?

I don't remember their first model name, but the model that made JT famous was the Joye 510. It's this cigalike that outsold everything else at the time. It's the reason why 'everything' has a standard 510 connector now. You can thank modders for making that happen.

Riva's...that was another sibling back in the day. They were an eGo off-brand much like iSmoka is now. Riva is/was also owned by JT.

JT is also the first manufacturer to have issued a worldwide recall of a big battery mod; the eVic.

Then there's the first release of iStick 50W...(yikes!)

Shortly after that was the 'rumored' Cuboid meltdowns....

They're out there, just gotta look.

 

[Lessifer]

Do a Google search on all of their products and start counting.
You're gonna have to go back quite a ways though, roughly 2007 if I remember right?

I don't remember their first model name, but the model that made JT famous was the Joye 510. It's this cigalike that outsold everything else at the time. It's the reason why 'everything' has a standard 510 connector now. You can thank modders for making that happen.

Riva's...that was another sibling back in the day. They were an eGo off-brand much like iSmoka is now. Riva is/was also owned by JT.

JT is also the first manufacturer to have issued a worldwide recall of a big battery mod; the eVic.

Then there's the first release of iStick 50W...(yikes!)

Shortly after that was the 'rumored' Cuboid meltdowns....

They're out there, just gotta look.

Right, there have been a number or incidents with a number of products. The point that I'm arguing is that you can't have a class action lawsuit against joyetech because a few joye ego's, and a few Riva's and a few eleaf isticks caused problems. You also can't sue the "vaping industry" as a whole. You need enough complaints of a single product/manufacturer to form a class, otherwise you just have individual lawsuits.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Right, there have been a number or incidents with a number of products. The point that I'm arguing is that you can't have a class action lawsuit against joyetech because a few joye ego's, and a few Riva's and a few eleaf isticks caused problems. You also can't sue the "vaping industry" as a whole. You need enough complaints of a single product/manufacturer to form a class, otherwise you just have individual lawsuits.

A few?

Top Class Actions is not just any ole site, Less.

So if you see a law firm posting a formal investigation thread there, you can BET that there's more than "just a few" problems. They'd most certainly already have a long list of injury complaints before they'd even bother paying TCA for a Class Action advertisement.

Take a look around Less...

Top Class Actions Connects Consumers to Class Action Lawsuits and Settlements

I understand your argument, but do you understand mine?
There are only 2 (that I'm aware of) manufacturers based in the USA...
Joyetech and Evolv.

I highly doubt that Evolv would be sued for anything. But Joyetech...most definitely. And they are very likely the target of this CA ad. I can't prove that, it's just a probability guess.

 

[Lessifer]

A few?

Top Class Actions is not just any ole site, Less.

So if you see a law firm posting a formal investigation thread there, you can BET that there's more than "just a few" problems. They'd most certainly already have a long list of injury complaints before they'd even bother paying TCA for a Class Action advertisement.

Take a look around Less...

Top Class Actions Connects Consumers to Class Action Lawsuits and Settlements

Notice that it's an investigation and that no specific manufacturer is named. Presumably they are looking to see if there are enough cases for a particular company to be sued. You can't file a class action lawsuit against the automobile industry because 5 toyotas, 3 subarus, 4 fords, and 2 chevrolets had problems. You can file a class action against toyota if you have 50 toyota's that had the same or similar problems.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Notice that it's an investigation and that no specific manufacturer is named. Presumably they are looking to see if there are enough cases for a particular company to be sued. You can't file a class action lawsuit against the automobile industry because 5 toyotas, 3 subarus, 4 fords, and 2 chevrolets had problems. You can file a class action against toyota if you have 50 toyota's that had the same or similar problems.

See my edit/addition above, it didn't save to your quote.

I agree, however....I seriously doubt that a law firm, not an independent lawyer, would bother to pay for a TCA ad if they didn't already have enough injury complaints against a certain manufacturer.

Law firms won't do anything unless they see multi-millions and a quick settlement and Joyetech is the most likely target for more than one reason.

Joyetech has had a LOT of problems with their gear in recent years and it's not just one or two products. I have no idea just how many injuries they've caused, but I would say that it could be significant.

I'd sure like to be the fly on the wall though....

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

To clarify though between my opening statement and what this CA is mostly likely targeting...may not actually be "exploding devices", though obviously would be included.

This firm is probably looking for injury claims, which could be anything ranging from personal injury to damages caused from a malfunctioning device.

Exploding devices are usually caused from negligence and/or improper use and only in rare cases be the fault of an internal battery or it's circuitry. You see off-brand cigalikes that have caused fires and have in fact exploded, but even those cases are rare. Often times I've seen people using the wrong kinds of chargers or chargers that did not come with the device....which is also an issue.

Malfunctioning devices though, those are pretty common...especially with new model releases. Even Evolv had a problem with the release of the DNA40.

 

[Lessifer]

See my edit/addition above, it didn't save to your quote.

I agree, however....I seriously doubt that a law firm, not an independent lawyer, would bother to pay for a TCA ad if they didn't already have enough injury complaints against a certain manufacturer.

Law firms won't do anything unless they see multi-millions and a quick settlement and Joyetech is the most likely target for more than one reason.

Joyetech has had a LOT of problems with their gear in recent years and it's not just one or two products. I have no idea just how many injuries they've caused, but I would say that it could be significant.

I'd sure like to be the fly on the wall though....

I understand your point, and like I said there are undoubtedly a few cases that could go to court and be won. I just don't think there are enough from any one company to constitute a class action. Personally, I think they've heard the media reports and like most people they don't quite understand what the industry is yet. Rarely, if ever, is the device named in one of the reports. The majority that I've seen are user error, mishandling of batteries, especially the more recent ones. The old ones, like egos charging catching fire, could often be attributed to "user error" such as not using the correct charger. I'm not saying suits won't happen, but from what I've seen, there isn't any one device/company that anyone can point to as being a major problem.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

I understand your point, and like I said there are undoubtedly a few cases that could go to court and be won. I just don't think there are enough from any one company to constitute a class action. Personally, I think they've heard the media reports and like most people they don't quite understand what the industry is yet. Rarely, if ever, is the device named in one of the reports. The majority that I've seen are user error, mishandling of batteries, especially the more recent ones. The old ones, like egos charging catching fire, could often be attributed to "user error" such as not using the correct charger. I'm not saying suits won't happen, but from what I've seen, there isn't any one device/company that anyone can point to as being a major problem.

I dunno....Kanger is on my own "never again" list.

But that's mainly because I did one too many Co-Ops for their stuff and got burned repeatedly.

 

[trentenmarschel]

In all reality, If it makes it past the investigation part, which could take a year or more, it will most likely be settled out of court from 2-8 million is my guess. But they can narrow it down to certain states and so on. But If anything maybe this will make some people buy better quality devices and do more research into what batteries are better, and how to properly handle them. Not likely to happen, but who knows if just one person starts paying attention, then I guess that's good.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Perfect example of the media FAILING to report the "facts"...

Man Losses 7 Teeth Due To Vape Explosion

Key note; "Vape Pen"

Eh-eh...



"I've been doing this for about a year now and assure you I did not do anything I wasn't supposed to (battery was in right, always had the shop put it together when I first bought it and add things and maintenance it the right way while taking their advice) but it exploded in my face."

"I did revise this to state clearly that before the laws changed yes, it was easier for me to have them build my coils. I did it after the laws changed and did everything myself."

Another IDIOT with a mech...

Poster's comment...

"Yeah what you failed to mention is that you were using a mechanical mod. Which is UNREGULATED. Meaning there is no chip in the device to prevent (redacted) like this happening!!!! Ohms too low, shorting the batteries, coils touching metal, etc etc. with a normal device which is regulated, the device will NOT fire but with a mechanical mod, you have NONE of those safety measures in place. It's your own (redacted) fault. Period."

I noticed the very same thing when reading this guy's post.
No mention of what device(s) he was using, no mention of his coil ohm's, no mention of the battery, no mention of just how long he's been using the same battery (a year?), no mention of anything of importance that would indicate "I'm not at fault"...

So who's gonna get sued?
Who's responsible?
Like the guy that posted the comment, "It's your own (redacted) fault. PERIOD."

This is probably true.

 

[ENAUD]

^^ another unwitting person injured/ maimed by a dangerous product sold by an industry that fails to police itself and recklessly sells harmful products to the American public. Another statistic for the FDA to be used to pound yet another nail in the coffin of the vape industry...

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

^^ another unwitting person injured/ maimed by a dangerous product sold by an industry that fails to police itself and recklessly sells harmful products to the American public. Another statistic for the FDA to be used to pound yet another nail in the coffin of the vape industry...

This is why so many of us 'normal' vapers were afraid of mechs when they were first introduced.
It's quite literally placing a stick of dynamite into the hands of an idiot with a detonator.
There are just too many irresponsible people that don't have any fear of the potential dangers of mechs and refuse to accept the reality that even a tiny mistake can be disastrous!
Just my own opinion, but....you seriously need to have your head examined if you're currently vaping a mech. And I don't care how much experience that you claim to have, you're holding a potential pipe-bomb.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Just reading through these comments should give readers a much clearer picture of just how uninformed the general (FB) population is about vaping.

(Click "view previous comments" just below the images)

One chick even adds to the media link:
"The pen vapes are the models that explode, with the coil directly above the battery."

(Facepalm)

This is EXACTLY what our "media" does, it plants lies into airheads.

Here's another classic FAIL:
"We had a battery explode at our house, thank God it wasn't in use. The battery want even connected and it also want being charged. It was just sitting on the table. It hit or ceiling then fell onto the carpet and burned a hole in it about the size of an apple. So what's your opinion on that."

Yeah....sure buddy. And the malicious spirit that inhabits your house found a better way to scare ya, right?

 

[Lessifer]

This is why so many of us 'normal' vapers were afraid of mechs when they were first introduced.
It's quite literally placing a stick of dynamite into the hands of an idiot with a detonator.
There are just too many irresponsible people that don't have any fear of the potential dangers of mechs and refuse to accept the reality that even a tiny mistake can be disastrous!
Just my own opinion, but....you seriously need to have your head examined if you're currently vaping a mech. And I don't care how much experience that you claim to have, you're holding a potential pipe-bomb.

My mech has a hot spring and more venting than most regulated mods... I also inspect my batteries whenever I change them and my build often even though it rarely gets changed.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

My mech has a hot spring and more venting than most regulated mods... I also inspect my batteries whenever I change them and my build often even though it rarely gets changed.

I'm sure that the FDA will appreciate your input and professional experience, Less...

Just before they ban mechanicals forever. (which they should IMO)

How many times have we all seen threads where the FDA or associations were asking for "our input"...only to turn around and do the exact opposite and come out with draconian regulations?

No offense Less, but it's not going to matter to the FDA how much experience many of us possess, they'll ban them on the foundation that there are too many idiots that can not only harm themselves but innocent people around them.

It's a genuine concern for many of us, especially seeing a (redacted) KID playing with it like a toy and bragging about how big their clouds are compared to yours. Or in cases like Mr. Toothless-Hall above, "I'm not at fault"....

This idiot did more damage to vaping as a whole by publishing his story with images, but without any clear facts and then making the claim that he's not at fault, than 100 fake news articles.

There are almost 500,000 shares of his story AND it made Google News.

This is why vaping is truly in danger; too many stupid people with zero accountability for their actions.

(And I'm not venting on you, Less...I'm just venting. )

 

[Lessifer]

I'm sure that the FDA will appreciate your input and professional experience, Less...

Just before they ban mechanicals forever. (which they should IMO)

How many times have we all seen threads where the FDA or associations were asking for "our input"...only to turn around and do the exact opposite and come out with draconian regulations?

No offense Less, but it's not going to matter to the FDA how much experience many of us possess, they'll ban them on the foundation that there are too many idiots that can not only harm themselves but innocent people around them.

It's a genuine concern for many of us, especially seeing a (redacted) KID playing with it like a toy and bragging about how big their clouds are compared to yours. Or in cases like Mr. Toothless-Hall above, "I'm not at fault"....

This idiot did more damage to vaping as a whole by publishing his story with images, but without any clear facts and then making the claim that he's not at fault, than 100 fake news articles.

There are almost 500,000 shares of his story AND it made Google News.

This is why vaping is truly in danger; too many stupid people.

(And I'm not venting on you, Less...I'm just venting. )

I get what you're saying, but it doesn't make sense to me to say mechs should be banned. It's like saying stick shift cars should be banned because people have to know how to use them in order to drive them properly. I agree that uninformed users shouldn't be using mechs, but I don't agree with regulations trying to guarantee that, because they won't work. A mech mod is no more inherently dangerous than a knife, the difference is that people haven't learned to associate mods(regulated or mechanical) to potential danger so they don't pay them the respect they deserve.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

I get what you're saying, but it doesn't make sense to me to say mechs should be banned. It's like saying stick shift cars should be banned because people have to know how to use them in order to drive them properly. I agree that uninformed users shouldn't be using mechs, but I don't agree with regulations trying to guarantee that, because they won't work. A mech mod is no more inherently dangerous than a knife, the difference is that people haven't learned to associate mods(regulated or mechanical) to potential danger so they don't pay them the respect they deserve.

Knives don't explode like pipe bombs and burst into flames at the press of a button.
There's just too much potential for "mass destruction" in the hands of people with zero sense or accountability. And I seriously DOUBT that the FDA is gonna be handing out licenses for handling mech-mods, they'll just ban them from being made or sold.
It never even occurred to this guy that he may have done something wrong or that he's directly responsible.
If this guy were wielding a knife and harmed a handful of people around him, then making the very same claim..."It's not my fault", he wouldn't be in the ICU....he'd be in the padded-hotel.
There are just too many insanely-stupid people that cannot be trusted to do the right thing not only for themselves, but for others around them.
And I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if this clown got a visit from Child Protection Services considering that he has 3 children. According to his claim, the explosion occurred in his bathroom.

 

[Lessifer]

There may be a "lot" of media attention but the fact is, accidents with vaporizers are rare. There aren't even enough incidents across the entire industry to justify a recall even if they were all from the same model. It sucks when it happens, but usually it's akin to someone grabbing the wrong end of a knife.

Personally, what I would worry about more is regulated mods that mysteriously auto fire. That is an issue that is completely out of the user's control, unless you remove the batteries when the mod is not in use.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Personally, what I would worry about more is regulated mods that mysteriously auto fire. That is an issue that is completely out of the user's control, unless you remove the batteries when the mod is not in use.

Yes, the auto-firing is actually a pretty common flaw with many devices and there are quite a few videos on YT showing the "zombie-effect". But in the worst case scenarios, peeps fry their coil....NOT their face.
You don't see explosions, mods turning into RPG's or flaming rockets....like you see with mechs.