Clone Versus Authentic Discussion

[Two_Bears]

Clone is a one on one copy. Something that looks very much the same and function the same.
Those are not clone.
Its like saying Bambino is a clone of Derringer Atty.

Well Luxt in my opinion the bambino is a clone of the Derringer. Look how much money the Group Men at work had to pay for copyright infringement because they borrowed the beat from another song that noobr had ever heard of when the arrangement and the lyrics was completely redone.

I keep expecting Warren Zevon go file a lawsuit against Kid Rock. The beginning of both songs are identical not just the beat

Anytime you borrow ideas from someone's intellectual property you are cloning. Not a 1 to 1 clone with the same logo it is a clone none the less.

I build alcohol stoves and everyone tells me I should patent or trademarks my design.

I can't do it because I borrowed ideas from Intense Angler's v8 stove, and used the idea from smomeeater's Roll over stove to solve the cold ppt flame out problem

But the jets were completely my own design and the alcohol in my Ultimate stove burns twice as long as the same amount of alcohol will burn in either the v8 or the Rollover stove either one.

All of the stove builders thinks it is essential that the jets be 5/8 inch 18 mm from the top and have 16-21 jets.

My ultimate stove has 15 jetd that is 1/5 of an inch 5 mm from the top and only needs 40℅ as much fuel as the other stoves.

That is why thru hikers like my stoves. They carry less fuel and this means less Weight on their back.

 

[luxt888]

Well Luxt in my opinion the bambino is a clone of the Derringer. Look how much money the Group Men at work had to pay for copyright infringement because they borrowed the beat from another song that noobr had ever heard of when the arrangement and the lyrics was completely redone.

I keep expecting Warren Zevon go file a lawsuit against Kid Rock. The beginning of both songs are identical not just the beat

Anytime you borrow ideas from someone's intellectual property you are cloning. Not a 1 to 1 clone with the same logo it is a clone none the less.

I build alcohol stoves and everyone tells me I should patent or trademarks my design.

I can't do it because I borrowed ideas from Intense Angler's V8 stove, and used the idea from smomeeater's Roll over stove to solve the cold ppt flame out problem

But the jets were completely my own design and the alcohol in my Ultimate stove burns twice as long as the same amount of alcohol will burn in either the V8 or the Rollover stove either one.

All of the stove builders thinks it is essential that the jets be 5/8 inch 18 mm from the top and have 16-21 jets.

My ultimate stove has 15 jetd that is 1/5 of an inch 5 mm from the top and only needs 40℅ as much fuel as the other stoves.

That is why thru hikers like my stoves. They carry less fuel and this means less Weight on their back.

Thats not Cloning. Thats infringement of trademark.

Cloning is taking a precise copy of one product, and make an exact copy out of it.

If bambino is precisely looks like derringer, and slap a jaybo design on it, now thats f#@*ed up.


But hey good luck with your stoves i hope you can find a way to patent it sounds like an amazing invention or maybe you can approach those big companies and sell you design? ( if of course thats a route you wanna take )

Now imagine if your very stove somehow got shipped to china and they make exact Clone , Copy out of it and start selling it off at much much lower price to everywhere else in the world where that patent is not an issue. Same design, same logo. What would you feel someone stole your design.. (knock on the wood hope it doesnt happen!)

 

[Two_Bears]

[QUOTE="luxt888, post: 16233362,


That $10-15 is your donation for supporting counterfeiting.[/QUOTE]

No Luxt it is making the little money I have go as far as it can.

If the authentics would have their mods made where labor is less expensive then sell the authentic at 75-100% more than the clones I would buy authentics. I can't justify a 400-2000% mark up over the clones. I might have to scrimp and save 6-9 months for something that is no better than a $20 clone.

I paid 40℅ more for my Freakshow Mini than I did for the clone. It was worth it to me.

The authentic had the possibility of working with a single coil instead of double coils, and I knew the flavor was there so 40% more for an authentic was worth it to me. If the authentic was $100+ more than the clone I would have sealed up one of the airflow chamber with Clay and thought the authentic people can go take a flying *_____.

I am not sponsoring theft. If I could have bought an unbranded 1:1 clone of the FS MINI that worked with a single coil I would have bought it

I got an authentic FS MINI for $14.01 and very happy with it especially after changing the o rings.

The designers don't have to rip people's lungs out. The American economy has been terrible since the Great Recession and Obama Care. It is next to impossible to get a full time job because the companies won't give you full time jobs because they can't afford Obama Care especially since the cost of the insurance went up 50-80 this year.

My financially embarrassed friend has two part time jobs and barely can afford to pay rent utilities and put food on the table.

There are a lot of hurting people out here and I am one of them.

Before you say we penny pinchers are supporting theft I suggest you take your rose colored glasses off and look at the real world for a change.

Sorry Admins but this post hit a nerve.

Luxt I have a friend Karen. She gets $600 a month SSI (Supplemental Security Income) she is disabled and gets 56 dollars a month of food stamps. Out of that she had to pay rent and utilities and buy a bus pass to get around. She often ran out of food and had no money or food stamps to get more. She was addicted to cigarettes and would pick up cigarettes out of every ash tray she could find. Until she moved away a few months ago I gave her food when she ran out and gave her an Ego T battery and a Clearomiser and bought her ejuice.

How dare you accuse me of sponsoring theft when you have no clue what is happening out here two years ago Karen got &225 a month food stamps and she could make ends meet. I don't even know if she is still alive.

 

[Two_Bears]

Thats not Cloning. Thats infringement of trademark.

Cloning is taking a precise copy of one product, and make an exact copy out of it.

If bambino is precisely looks like derringer, and slap a jaybo design on it, now thats f#@*ed up.


But hey good luck with your stoves i hope you can find a way to patent it sounds like an amazing invention or maybe you can approach those big companies and sell you design? ( if of course thats a route you wanna take )

Now imagine if your very stove somehow got shipped to china and they make exact Clone , Copy out of it and start selling it off at much much lower price to everywhere else in the world where that patent is not an issue. Same design, same logo. What would you feel someone stole your design.. (knock on the wood hope it doesnt happen!)

They could not do that and make anything. I sell my little stoves for $9.99, and even released the exact measurements and needed materials to build their own 1 to 1 clone of my stove.

It's not about making money. It's about helping people. I hope these survivalists and peppers take the idea and run with it because when the grid goes down they won't find themselves in my position in January 2011. The outside temperature 9 below zero and the electricity off for 6 hours. I was a prepper with all kinds of food and no way to make coffee, tea, soup, rice, etc all I could do was open a can of corn and eat it raw, and it did nothing to warm my body temp.

Some things are too important to make a lot of money on and helping people break the addiction to tobacco should be one of them.

 

[luxt888]

First of all im sorry to hear about Karen hope she's well.


There are cheap atty without resorting into buying counterfeit

<$20
Under 20 Dollars RDAs
$20-$50
20 to 50 Dollars RDAs

If you have to buy a high-end product then thats how much its priced.
You pay for the cost of inventing them, not production fee's alone.


Like i said before. I hope we see more authentic atty and mods geared toward the lower spectrum.

 

[Two_Bears]

First of all im sorry to hear about Karen hope she's well.


There are cheap atty without resorting into buying counterfeit

<$20
Under 20 Dollars RDAs
$20-$50
20 to 50 Dollars RDAs

If you have to buy a high-end product then thats how much its priced.
You pay for the cost of inventing them, not production fee's alone.


Like i said before. I hope we see more authentic atty and mods geared toward the lower spectrum.

Luxt: I am glad you have a heart in there somewhere. Sorry about going off on you like that.

If the clones would make 1:1 clones without the logos that would be the perfect solution.

Friends again?

 

[luxt888]

Luxt: I am glad you have a heart in there somewhere. Sorry about going off on you like that.

If the clones would make 1:1 clones without the logos that would be the perfect solution.

Friends again?

I am just voicing my opinion and my strong standing for authentic.

I myself dont earn a lot of money therefore i saved up and wait for getting the right gear.
Hardly have a budget to collect much gears.
I carefully select my gear and to me that feeling of owning something you been longing is great.
You treasure that items more.
You can see my post elsewhere i asked opinion about atty and all.

I am new to this forum but been vaping for almost 2 years.
It got me off analog (smokes for 15y) and to that i feel i owe it to the industry and support.
Vaping helps people quit smoking. But its such a small industry. let alone legalized..


@Two_Bears you are always be my vaping buddy and dont worry i dont have a rose colored glasses nor fancy it haha

 

[mauricem00]

Well Luxt in my opinion the bambino is a clone of the Derringer. Look how much money the Group Men at work had to pay for copyright infringement because they borrowed the beat from another song that noobr had ever heard of when the arrangement and the lyrics was completely redone.

I keep expecting Warren Zevon go file a lawsuit against Kid Rock. The beginning of both songs are identical not just the beat

Anytime you borrow ideas from someone's intellectual property you are cloning. Not a 1 to 1 clone with the same logo it is a clone none the less.

I build alcohol stoves and everyone tells me I should patent or trademarks my design.

I can't do it because I borrowed ideas from Intense Angler's V8 stove, and used the idea from smomeeater's Roll over stove to solve the cold ppt flame out problem

But the jets were completely my own design and the alcohol in my Ultimate stove burns twice as long as the same amount of alcohol will burn in either the V8 or the Rollover stove either one.

All of the stove builders thinks it is essential that the jets be 5/8 inch 18 mm from the top and have 16-21 jets.

My ultimate stove has 15 jetd that is 1/5 of an inch 5 mm from the top and only needs 40℅ as much fuel as the other stoves.

That is why thru hikers like my stoves. They carry less fuel and this means less Weight on their back.

aren't most new inventions just improvements on older ideals? if a company wants to use cheap labor in a developing nation they have to accept the laws and loss of certain rights that go with that.the companies abandoned the social contract years ago not the people.they made this a global market place and have to compete under those rules.as a consumer I want the best value for my dollar. it sounds like you made some great improvements to an older product and the market is rewarding you for that innovation. thats the way a free market is suppose to work. intellectual property rights are not natural rights. they are created by government and limited to the jurisdiction of the government that grants them.I owe nothing to members of society that recognize no debt to society I am a sovereign individual.not the property of any government

 

[luxt888]

If the clones would make 1:1 clones without the logos that would be the perfect solution.

I hope we see more new companies like Wotofo, Infinite, Indulge creating more affordable authentic. Competition are good.
The high end will always have their own market anyway.
But then, possibly, people will still prefer to buy a clone of that high end..

 

[ricks]

Life is too short to wait and save money to buy an over-priced atty or mod... Clones allow me to get the best equipment fast and cheap.

 

[hypocritelecteur]

So do you guys only buy Kleenex brand Kleenexes? Pyrex brand pyrex containers?

Kool-aid brand koolaid?
Polo brand polo shirts?
Never drank a Mountain Thunder?

Cloning is bad when it hurts competition, not when it generates it.

 

[roxynoodle]

One person here told me he's never once bought a generic product, including medications. Good thing he doesn't have my insurance company or he might have died by now. Even if its life threatening they will deny it if its not generic.

 

[stevegmu]

So do you guys only buy Kleenex brand Kleenexes? Pyrex brand pyrex containers?

Kool-aid brand koolaid?
Polo brand polo shirts?
Never drank a Mountain Thunder?

Cloning is bad when it hurts competition, not when it generates it.

I think you are confusing generic products or similar products with counterfeits... There isn't another paper manufacturer selling Kleenex with the same name and packaging as Kimberly Clark Kleenex, or else they would be sued out of existence...

Most of the Kayfun 4s I have seen on this forum are counterfeits- name, logos, made in stamps, packaging and all. Only Svoemesto makes Kayfuns. The rest are counterfeits bought because the user wanted the brand and look without the price- like fake watches and handbags...

 

[katsu911]

So do you guys only buy Kleenex brand Kleenexes? Pyrex brand pyrex containers?

Kool-aid brand koolaid?
Polo brand polo shirts?
Never drank a Mountain Thunder?

Cloning is bad when it hurts competition, not when it generates it.

Kleenex is just a brand of a tissue.
Pyrex is just a brand of a clear low-thermal-expansion borosilicate glass
Kool-aid is just a brand of a flavored drink mix
Polo by Ralph Lauren is just a brand of shirt with collar.

Those brands are so popular and recognisable it becomes a word in dictionary to refer to the actual product.
Just like "google" replace the word "search engine".


So what you are saying were exactly like:

Do you guys only buy tissue brand Kleenex?
Clear low-thermal-expansion borosilicate glass brand Pyrex?
Flavored drink mix brand Kool-aid?
Shirt with collar brand Polo?

Of course NOT.

Sorry you analogy does not make any sense.

Its like saying:

Do you only buy atty brand Kayfun? no..


If i wanted to buy a tissue branded Kleenex, of course i buy Kleenex.
But i dont buy Fake Kleenex. Would you buy Fake Kleenex?
How is Fake Kleenex creates competition?

P.s. replace the word tissue with atty, kleenex with kayfun. Get the idea?

 

[hypocritelecteur]

You're assuming I am defending branded clones. I'm not, because as you point out, my analogy would then not make sense. I strive to make sense, so kindly do not insert things I am not saying into my posts and then claiming your insertions mean that I am not being consistent.

I'm saying generic clones that mimic precisely the function of their branded brothers are as American as apple pie

 

[Freedom2Vape]

So do you guys only buy Kleenex brand Kleenexes? Pyrex brand pyrex containers?

Kool-aid brand koolaid?
Polo brand polo shirts?
Never drank a Mountain Thunder?

Cloning is bad when it hurts competition, not when it generates it.

1. Yes to the Kleenex question.
2. Do not buy Kool-aid since the kids are grown, but store-brands do not say Kool-aid or use the Kool-aid logo
3. Polo shirts? Never played polo so I guess not.
4. I have had Mountain Thunder when others brought it to the "party", but very much prefer Mountain Dew, which is what I purchase.

 

[Freedom2Vape]

You're assuming I am defending branded clones. I'm not, because as you point out, my analogy would then not make sense. I strive to make sense, so kindly do not insert things I am not saying into my posts and then claiming your insertions mean that I am not being consistent.

I'm saying generic clones that mimic precisely the function of their branded brothers are as American as apple pie

In this case, I would not have issue with a non branded item than one that uses the trademark. Invariably there are small (or large) differences between the generic and the authentic branded item. Competition is good, but theft of trademark is not.
If these clone makers want to create an atomizer that functionally works the same as a Kayfun, or Squape, or Calix, or Goblin, etc. but doesn't have the logo/trademark, would people buy it? Many in this thread indicate they would, so why don't they?

 

[coolerat]

I think you are confusing generic products or similar products with counterfeits... There isn't another paper manufacturer selling Kleenex with the same name and packaging as Kimberly Clark Kleenex, or else they would be sued out of existence...

Most of the Kayfun 4s I have seen on this forum are counterfeits- name, logos, made in stamps, packaging and all. Only Svoemesto makes Kayfuns. The rest are counterfeits bought because the user wanted the brand and look without the price- like fake watches and handbags...

I buy them and throw away the build deck, screw a Silverplay clone deck under the tank and show it around saying I had tanks custom made with my initials.

People who don't vape don't care.

About half the vapers I show believe me.

About half the vapers I show think I'm full of crap but aren't sure why.

Nobody I have yet come across has ever heard of SM.

 

[coolerat]

I buy them and throw away the build deck, screw a Silverplay clone deck under the tank and show it around saying I had tanks custom made with my initials.

People who don't vape don't care.

About half the vapers I show believe me.

About half the vapers I show think I'm full of crap but aren't sure why.

Nobody I have yet come across has ever heard of SM.

Well they've heard of SM meaning me but not that other guy.

 

[sonicbomb]