Cloning Milk and Honey

[matrix961]

Thanks for the info doubleewe. You know I never thought of the "Land of Milk and Honey" thing but you know what it would make perfect sense as to why they chose that name. Not because it tastes like it but because that's what it reminds you of.

Now about the flavor enhancers. I'm going to attempt to play with those a bit so thanks for posting that info. I was able to find the threads talking about the examples you posted. I was also doing some google searching and found a particular one that to me makes some pretty bold statements.

I have actually ordered a bottle just out of curiosity and I'm definitely not keeping my hopes up on it but I just find it interesting how they literally claim that it can "work with any juice" or "increase flavor" or even better "Steeps e-liquids to full flavor in 45 minutes". Now to me that last one is very interesting. I obviously know anything can be said about a product to sell it but you never know. If that's the case then I'll be super speed steeping sometime next week LOL . Not keeping my hopes up tho.

The thing I'm battling with now is that I want to increase the percentages and I know anymore and I will ruin it even for myself. I know that peanut butter if too high will ruin it for me. I think everyone will definitely have their own upper limits tho. Heck for all I know the recipe I'm working with could be completely off and my crazy mind and senses are saying different throwing me off. We could also be playing with the wrong brand of ingredients, so many things.

I'm definitely interested in trying others recipes as well. So if C4M3120N or anyone else has one I should try let me know. I hope I don't steer anyone in the wrong direction with what I come up with.

I was able to mix up a new test batch with the marshmallow since that came in the mail today. Not sure if I really notice a major difference but it still tastes close enough for me. Gonna let it sit for a day or so and rest my senses. I think maybe the last piece I'm looking for is that thicker smoother feeling when vaping the original. I notice it with other juices as well, they all have this coating feeling when vaping. Smooth and consistent if that makes sense. That's why I'm interested in trying an enhancer for myself.

Anyways sorry for the long posts.

 

[DrLucky]

Yep, the Land of Milk and Honey is where the name comes from. Vaping paradise! I mentioned that WAY back on like page 2 or something. Even their other names for flavors aren't directly descriptive to their product (like Church or Shocker).

I've used a number of sweeteners and enhancers. Ethyl Maltol, Acetyl Pyrazine, MTS Vape WIzard, Sucralose, TFA's Smooth. Even some Marshmallows are more an enhancer than a flavor.

My latest all FW batch came out just as bad. The peanut butter doesn't have that buttery bite, and the marshmallow was atrocious. I was quite hyped on the idea of all FW flavors. It made a lot of sense from a business perspective. But at this point, I'd be very surprised if that were the case.
So its back to a big open selection of possible ingredients for me.

I'd been out of TFA Banana Cream for some time now during the all FW experiments, but I've ordered more today

Ethyl Maltol is very likely an ingredient. It adds depth and a rich sweetness. It also, in my experience, doesn't char the coils (a nice feature of M&H) like other sweeteners do. EM does tend to mute other flavors, so perhaps a higher overall flavor percentage brought "down to size" and sweetened with EM is the trick.
I've been happy with the success of Acetyl Pyrazine in my tests as well (in very small quantities). But as some commentators have mentioned, other flavors contain AP already.
I'd be surprised if someone's marshmallow wasn't in the final mix.

The flavor profiles i'm confident in are a peanut butter, a banana and a marshmallow.
There's a creaminess to M&h, though, that I cant lock down. I plan to experiment with higher amounts of EM and overall flavor percentage next.

 

[matrix961]

Yeah man just did a comparison with getting the TFA marshmallow today. Big difference so im glad I have the TFA version again. Im liking the flavors im getting although I would like more. I tried to increase them with a small sample and found my threshold. I definitely cant go past 6% peanut butter. I like the cotton candy and marshmallow in it tho. Just trying to get more flavor enhancement and creminess out of it.

I was thinking about taking some cream flavors and working up a nice cream mix to add to it. Im wondering if that would add the creminess, not much just a little. Ive been working on a vanilla milk vape ive been testing, maybe i can reduce the vanilla and work something out. Maybe my own type of light cream enhancer.

I think my next order ill finally get some ethyl maltol etc to play with. Although im really wanting to try this flavor booster i ordered. Just curious to see if it does what it says.

 

[C4M3120N]

I would like to offer my sincere apologies for hyping up the Flavor West brand. That was all me and I am sorry that I caused some of you to waste money those flavorings. I myself am also extremely disappointed in almost all of my Flavor West flavorings. Some of them have a really bad aftertaste and almost all of them have a very perfumey aftertaste to them as well. I'm thinking of taking off all the caps and droppers from all of them to let them all breath for a solid twelve hours to hopefully evaporate whatever it is that is causing that perfumey trait. Sometimes this can be caused by using alcohol in their flavor extraction/making process and I'm hoping that breathing them will help make them useable so they are not a complete waste. Them being an hour away from the Cosmic Fog headquarters coupled with all the threads in other forums pointing to them, it only made sense to me to try them. Again, I am really sorry for hyping them up and wasting some of you money. I feel really bad about it...

In other news, my Derringer RDA showed up today and I'm really liking it. Though it is my first real RDA so I can't really compare it anything else except the RDA head that came with my Kanger Subtank Mini, which also works really well too. I ordered the Derringer through Angelcigs, a US based Chinese warehouse in California with prices almost comparable to Fasttech. This was my first order with Angelcigs and I had my items five days after ordering, in case anyone else is interested in ordering from them but was hesitant. I'm thinking of picking up their Hellboy RDA, it's square and looks awesome, lol! Anyway, I'm happy to have a dedicated RDA so I can start testing out single flavors better and more efficiently.

I have also read the main thread on here talking about using additives awhile ago. Talking about lemon juice, vinegar and saline and while it was incredibly interesting and insightful, I can't imagine any well established vender like CF adding these things into their e-liquids, especially with the FDA getting ready to crack down. That however is just my personal opinion. I would however not be surprised to see sucralose or EM or some type of sweetener in M&H.

For me personally, I think I'm only going to try and make this clone using only FA and TFA flavors from now on. These are the two bigs dogs in the world of flavoring, especially for e-cigarettes. I do have a few CAP and Signature flavorings I might try but for the most part I'm only going to be trying to work with FA and TFA from now on.

I'm currently mixing up some single flavors right now, all at 5% to start off with to see which flavors I want to try working with and to see if I can definitely taste certain individual parts of M&H better or at least more accurately instead of going off speculations or what is being said on other forums, like the FW hype, lol. I'm also thinking of doing a test batch with just some EM in to see if that is indeed the sweet note true M&H has.

So, again, I apologize for spreading the FW hype and for wasting all our time and money with it. I am still 110% dedicated to solving this mystery and I'm still hard at work with it!

EDIT:
@ matrix961, I am using syringes for all my measurements, I use .5 ml, 1ml and 3ml for my flavorings. I'm thinking I ruined your recipe in the speed steeping method I used, lol. I set it a travel mug with a lid of very hot water and threw it in there before I went to bed and left it overnight, in a plastic bottle as well, I'm pretty sure that it was ruined it for me, lol. Though, for me personally, it could have been from cooking your recipe, lol, but the peanut butter definitely seemed to high and it wasn't sweet like M&H, though that could have all been a result of my poor late night mixing and horrible speed steeping technique. When you throw another recipe at us, I will be more precise in measuring it all out and I won't speed steep it at all, lol.

 

[C4M3120N]

Dripping individual flavors is definitely proving to be helpful. I'm feeling pretty good about TFA Marshmallow and TFA Banana Cream.

I just wanted to throw something out there, it may be way off and just downright completely absurd, I don't currently own any strawberry flavors so I can't test this out myself but can anyone with any strawberry flavor take a nice big whiff of it and then do the same with CF M&H? It just hit me tonight, that banana may not be the only fruit note in this. Smelling my bottle of CF M&H, I tried to imagine what other fruits I might be smelling, and strawberry definitely seems like it could be a likely candidate and I could swear I almost smelled a light hint of it.

 

[DrLucky]

No need to apologize at all, C4M3120N! One has to find the 99 wrong ways to make a lightbulb.
We won't get anywhere from ignoring ideas and suggestions.
Welcome to the wonderful world of rebuilding and dripping! If your batter (WAY important) and lungs are up to it, try a dual or quad 0.2 ohm build with 26 gauge wire, fantastic flavor. If you read this in time, try some OG Milk and Honey in it first.


Hazelnut is a good way to add creaminess and I imagine would compliment peanut butter nicely.
Caramel seems like a good way to add richness and sweetness too.
I've also ordered some TFA Banana Nut Bread which seems plausible.

My next batch will be:

Peanut Butter (TFA) 4%
Banana Cream (TFA) 3%
Graham Cracker Clear (TFA) 2%
Hazelnut (FA) 1.5%
Marshmallow (FA) 2%
Caramel (FA) 0.5%
AP 0.2%
EM 0.5%

If anyone wants to try this while I wait for my banana cream to arrive, let me know how it goes.

I am now looking for creamy flavors that aren't some sort vanilla base to try. Give me your suggestions!

 

[DoubleEwe]

Dripping individual flavors is definitely proving to be helpful. I'm feeling pretty good about TFA Marshmallow and TFA Banana Cream.

I just wanted to throw something out there, it may be way off and just downright completely absurd, I don't currently own any strawberry flavors so I can't test this out myself but can anyone with any strawberry flavor take a nice big whiff of it and then do the same with CF M&H? It just hit me tonight, that banana may not be the only fruit note in this. Smelling my bottle of CF M&H, I tried to imagine what other fruits I might be smelling, and strawberry definitely seems like it could be a likely candidate and I could swear I almost smelled a light hint of it.

Have you by any chance tried Vaping Birdy's Emperor Penguin?
The reason I ask is that I have had it (and love it), it is listed as 'condensed milk and honeydew melon' but the flavour to me is not melon at all (I dislike melon), it tastes to me like a very mild banana with a luscious cream.
So I am wondering if honeydew melon in small amounts gives the mild banana taste? (or helps it/softens it)

I looked up a clone recipe for Emperor penguin and they had:
honeydew 5 %
banana cream 3 %
Along with some creams etc.
They stated that they couldn't replicate the creamy element at present so I have not bothered listing what they had.

It is just a thought, might be misguided, but if you have honeydew (not sure of brand but I assume TFA) it might be worth a try. (Also it could give weight to the 'Milk & Honey' having dual meaning)

 

[matrix961]

No need to apologize at all, C4M3120N! One has to find the 99 wrong ways to make a lightbulb.
We won't get anywhere from ignoring ideas and suggestions.

Well said sir... C4M3120N! doesn't need to apologize for that. I definitely wouldn't be here if I didn't want to spend some money and try new things. The FW suggestion was valid for me when I researched it for myself. We have to try things or we won't know. It's all good C4M3120N!.

DrLucky I definitely plan on trying a batch with the actual TFA Banana Cream. I haven't done that yet fiddling around with the banana mix I made. I think it's time to at least try the TFA version which I did plan on doing but got caught up with other things. I don't have the other ingredients so I'll make do with what I have but if you have tested with banana cream before do you recall it being strong? I'll start with the lower percentage and see.

I also tested a creamy type mix last night to try and add some creaminess. All I did was mix up some tfa dairy milk with tfa sweet cream and a tiny amount of cap custard to give it that thicker cream smell and taste. Not enough to add much if any vanilla flavor. This is all I had to work with. Started this morning with 2 drops per 1ml so I'll see how it goes. For me the mixture does have a nice creaminess to it so we will see. I really like tfa dairy milk & tfa sweet cream BTW.

C4M3120N! I don't sense any strawberry but that could be the fact that my senses don't pick up on strawberry very well. I can't even taste strawberry in my other recipe at 10% LOL. I actually had a hard time even tasting strawberry in the retail unicorn milk. I think it's just me with strawberry tastes.

DoubleEwe I do have the honeydew from TFA and it is very strong. It has a good smell and taste. I only had to use a tiny amount when I was developing a melon vape a few weeks ago. For me .1-.2 ml on a 15ml batch was enough to have it as a background flavor in a fruity melon type vape.

 

[DoubleEwe]

I just googled and apparently it is Capella's Honeydew (saw on another popular vaping forum) in Emperor Penguin, no experience of the flavouring personally so cant say if my theory has any legs or not.

I wonder if any manufacturers would sell their recipes, I mean like $100 or something (obviously with the buyer signing a non-disclosure agreement etc), as they would know that we DIY on the whole to get away from having to buy pre-made e-juice, so it isn't as if they would lose a customer, but can profit regardless...

 

[matrix961]

Hell yeah DoubleEwe I'd buy a personal usage license to their recipes lol. Ain't gonna happen tho. I imagine it's like in the food industry, they keep their recipes locked away and secret. I wouldn't think it would work anyways, someone would buy them just to leak them out on the net anyways.

Ok guys so I've switched over to the TFA banana cream tests and I'm liking it very much. So I likely won't use the DIY recipe anymore, it was fun while it lasted LOL.

This is what I'm trying now:

TFA Peanut Butter - 4.65%
TFA Banana Cream - 3.3%
TFA Marshmallow - 2.65%
TFA Cotton Candy - 2.0%

Testing has been going well and I definitely notice a difference in taste. I'm liking the TFA Banana Cream, I found the FW banana in my banana cream mix had more of a candy banana type taste. The TFA seems better for me.

I'm still getting the profile that I think M&H is when I smell and vape it, the best I can tell anyways. Although when vaping I only get the flavor if I let myself rest a bit. I'm definitely getting plenty of sweetness. For me it's sweet enough when I start tasting sweetness when I cough LOL. Yeah it's like sweet loogies LOL, sorry for being gross.

I'll report back once I let myself rest a bit and test some more.

Edit:
One more thing I'm also testing a creamy addon I whipped up to add that creaminess and coating in the mouth feeling I definitely got with the original. Just adding a few drops per ml has worked well. I'll share it once I finish up testing & tweaking.

 

[DrLucky]

Yeah when I tested TFA banana cream, it seemed strong. But I was vaping Milk and Honey all day, every day and didn't notice a strong banana flavor in it, more of an undertone.
Now that I'm doing more DIY and changing up my all day vapes, I notice the banana flavor more. This is very probably a issue with my crock pot speed steeping method not allowing the banana to meld with the rest of the batch. That being said, I think there's a strong possibility that a sweeter banana like from a banana nut bread, complimenting the mystery creaminess is where M&H is actually at. Also, I'm going to hunt for a banana pudding which would be sweet and creamy and not too much like ripe or candy banana.
Does anyone else get a baked goods note from M&H? I was first on the theory that this was from graham cracker or Acetyl Pyrazine. Still could be. Tastes change I guess.

 

[matrix961]

Yeah when I tested TFA banana cream, it seemed strong. But I was vaping Milk and Honey all day, every day and didn't notice a strong banana flavor in it, more of an undertone.
Now that I'm doing more DIY and changing up my all day vapes, I notice the banana flavor more. This is very probably a issue with my crock pot speed steeping method not allowing the banana to meld with the rest of the batch. That being said, I think there's a strong possibility that a sweeter banana like from a banana nut bread, complimenting the mystery creaminess is where M&H is actually at. Also, I'm going to hunt for a banana pudding which would be sweet and creamy and not too much like ripe or candy banana.
Does anyone else get a baked goods note from M&H? I was first on the theory that this was from graham cracker or Acetyl Pyrazine. Still could be. Tastes change I guess.

Interested to see how that banana nut bread does. The first time I vaped M & H the banana reminded me of a banana nilla wafer pudding. My grandma used to make that a lot and it was good LOL.

I'm basically done for a few days I think. I can't taste anything with M & H now. The funny thing is that I've been vaping this vanilla milk recipe I made and can still taste the custards, creams, and vanilla. It's weird how that hasn't lost it's flavor yet. I would have thought vaping that all day would have opened up my senses to test M & H again but nope, only for a few puffs it did and that's it. Everything else is so flavorful tho so I'm not losing my tastes totally. I think I need a rest, sniffing coffee and other tricks don't do nothing.

 

[C4M3120N]

Hey, Thank each of you for not being upset and for being understanding about the FW hype I brought to the table. I'm now starting to wonder if I will ever find a use for the 40 or so bottles (over 400ml) of FW flavors I have, lol.

@ the TFA Banana Cream discussion: I also don't really personally notice or directly taste any banana in M&H either, however I definitely think some sort of banana is used. When smelling banana flavorings next to a bottle of M&H, it really becomes quite apparent that some sort of banana is used. TFA Banana Cream seems like it could be a good candidate. The thing to keep in mind, that when mixing all these flavors together, were creating a new flavor profile all together. For example, if you mix a bunch of delicious smelling FW flavorings together, it doesn't really matter which ones, you can always create a new flavor profile that will always taste exactly like or very close to something crappy, lol. I really think that some sort of banana is a key to obtaining one of the sweet notes in M&H.

I have personally contemplated using both TFA Banana Nut Bread and TFA Bananas Foster in the past but I never tried them. After doing some RDA tests over the past couple of days. I'm definitely starting to lean towards trying both of these flavors out in place of the TFA Banana Cream as well. And what ever banana it ends up being, I also feel that it's going to be one of the higher %'ages of ingredients as well.

I've been having a serious taste test experiment with the RDA over the past couple of days and I created a list of flavors that I think are all very good candidates to try in our M&H clone. A lot of these flavors were already suspect and after RDA'ing them, they definitely deserve to be on this list.

All TFA

Vanilla Swirl
Cotton Candy
Marshmallow
Bananas Foster
Banana Nut Bread
Whipped Cream
Smooth Flavor

With the RDA now, I'm also trying something new, I'm starting off with a 10ml bottle of 50/50 and adding drops to taste, adding more and violently shaking after testing. I know it isn't really accurate or scientific, lol but it definitely seems to be working better than all the other methods I have tried.

My taste buds are definitely fried though from continually tasting and testing all these specific flavors. I did order all the flavors I needed to make up the recipes both you DrLucky and matrix961 sent me. They should be here on Monday, and I'm excited to try them out. It was also my first order ever placed with Wizard Labs and I was pretty impressed by their large selection and prices.

 

[matrix961]

I’ve been doing a lot of testing to try and get creaminess and more sweetness into the mix. I started by just taking a vanilla milk recipe I did and mixing both together, half n half. This surprisingly turned out good. I merged both recipes and am now in the process of tweaking the amounts. I also had to reduce the vanilla that was in the vanilla milk recipe so it wasn’t too strong. Actually the vanilla I used in that recipe was vanilla swirl. I also reduced the custards a bit so their notes don’t interfere too much. Right now there is a total of 8 ingredients with a total of around 30% flavoring. This is helping with keeping certain stronger ingredients like the peanut butter under control at higher percentages. I'm finding that it's blending nicely. I'll post my recipe once I'm done with a few more tests.

I also went back to my DIY Banana Cream. I really liked just the TFA on it’s own at first but found that I liked that missing ripeness. So I made up a mixture using the TFA Banana Cream and FW Banana flavor. This can also be done with the TFA Ripe Banana Flavor. I also don’t want too much banana. I taste it in the original but it’s very light and most of the time it’s the peanut butter I’m tasting along with the creaminess and sweetness.

I am interested in maybe trying the banana bread flavor but I’m not sure about the banana foster since they do say it has hints of cinnamon and nutmeg. Not sure how that would do depending on how noticeable those notes are. I’m going to order a sample of both to play with. I also ordered some bulk sizes from TFA finally. The other thing I’m going to try and it’s on order is the graham cracker clear.

I did get that flavor booster in the mail yesterday. It actually seems to work pretty decently so I’m surprised. However not at what their recommended usage is. 1 drop per 1ml is plenty but it also depends on how sweet the liquid is in the first place. Just by tasting it, it seems to be a mix of saline, a super strong sweetener, and some very very light cream + fruity notes. It definitely enhances the flavor profile. I’ll likely try to make my own in the future tho.

 

[DoubleEwe]

I am interested in maybe trying the banana bread flavor but I’m not sure about the banana foster since they do say it has hints of cinnamon and nutmeg. Not sure how that would do depending on how noticeable those notes are. I’m going to order a sample of both to play with. I also ordered some bulk sizes from TFA finally. The other thing I’m going to try and it’s on order is the graham cracker clear.

I did get that flavor booster in the mail yesterday. It actually seems to work pretty decently so I’m surprised. However not at what their recommended usage is. 1 drop per 1ml is plenty but it also depends on how sweet the liquid is in the first place. Just by tasting it, it seems to be a mix of saline, a super strong sweetener, and some very very light cream + fruity notes. It definitely enhances the flavor profile. I’ll likely try to make my own in the future tho.

Sounds like even if you don't emulate the original M&H exactly you are still going to make a pretty damn tasty juice! Maybe change the name to 'Mink & Holey' (almost Milk & Honey) or something.

The Banana Foster sounds interesting and the extra ingredients in it may explain some of the reviews I have seen that say "a hint of spice" in M&H.

Keep up the awesome work, I love hearing your latest thoughts, recipes and revelations!

 

[Gersey]

Has anyone tried adding a little malted milk to the mix?

 

[matrix961]

Sounds like even if you don't emulate the original M&H exactly you are still going to make a pretty damn tasty juice! Maybe change the name to 'Mink & Holey' (almost Milk & Honey) or something.

The Banana Foster sounds interesting and the extra ingredients in it may explain some of the reviews I have seen that say "a hint of spice" in M&H.

Keep up the awesome work, I love hearing your latest thoughts, recipes and revelations!

That could be right with the banana foster. I do remember hearing some say they tasted a hint of spice. I never have but that doesn't mean it's not in there. Others might be more sensitive in taste to those. I'll have to get a sample of that on my next order from WL.

I agree, even if I don't end up with an exact clone it might be something that ends up as a good vape. I'm also gonna post my vanilla milk in the recipes forum soon. I love it and is one that I have not gotten fatigued on yet surprisingly. Also vaping it in the house the wife said it smells really good so maybe that's a sign.

Has anyone tried adding a little malted milk to the mix?

I haven't but I'd be interested to hear thoughts on it if anyone has. I've also wondered how the malted milk is. I love malted milk as a drink.

 

[matrix961]

This is the result of merging my vanilla milk for the creaminess and the M&H clone I was working on. It still wasn’t right tho and realized something was wrong with the specific percentages based on the intensity of the ingredients. Also having to add a specific ingredient back in after thinking I didn’t taste it but realized I may have been fatigued with it. When I tried M&H for the first time I was messing with graham crust in another recipe at the time. That could explain why I thought I never tasted any graham.

When I taste the original now it’s peanut buttery but there’s something else. I decided to try again but with graham on top in the recipe and peanut butter at a lower percentage. So I took my merged recipe and adjusted it. Below is what I came up with and so far with tests it seems much more promising for me.

I finally get that mouth feel, sweetness, nutty and creaminess. I also can now get hints of the banana but I have to keep that one pretty low. I have now gone to using just both TFA Banana Cream with a lower amount of FW Banana for more of a riper banana.

I do want to try the graham clear in place of the graham crust as well as the banana foster in place of the other banana, they are just not here yet so I decided to improvise for now. I think those would be good to at least test out a bit. The recipe does seem to blend well and not allow peanut butter to take over, it seems to work well with the graham crust and I expect graham clear to be the same. The cotton candy adds that nice sweetness without interfering with the flavoring. The milk, custards, and vanilla add that creaminess I think it was missing.

I know the total flavoring percentage is high for some but I like it like this. I do think that with the right ingredients you can blend them in such a way that a high percentage isn’t even an issue. If the overall percentage is too high you can lower the percentages but I would keep the order from highest to lowest. I think this is what’s needed for the graham and peanut butter to work well together. I also used both CAP and TFA custards. I do this because I think they both have unique characteristics. Although sometimes I can’t just use one but if I use both they seem to work with each other. Hard to explain but it seems I get more creaminess. This is how I have the custards in my vanilla milk and since I merged them I want to be careful and not remove too much without more testing.

I can only test so much myself and need some opinions. I'm definitely tasting what I think is the profile or close to it along with the body and sweetness. I think it tastes good to me anyways. LOL

Of course I could be totally off my rocker again and it might taste like crap to anyone else.

TFA Cheesecake, Graham Crust 7.0%
TFA Cotton Candy 6.0%
TFA Marshmallow 4.0%
TFA Peanut Butter 3.0%
TFA Dairy Milk 2.0%
CAP Vanilla Custard 2.0%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 2.0%
TFA Banana Cream 2.0%
FW Banana 1.0%
TFA Vanilla Custard 1.0%

 

[C4M3120N]

Hey matrix961, I'm liking what I'm seeing in this latest recipe! From my own tests and conclusions using almost all of these flavors myself in trying to get this clone, your %'ages look really good to me as well as your list of ingredients. I just experimented with several milk flavors the other night and was surprised at the smoothness they brought to the table used at lower %'ages. I'm currently missing the CAP Vanilla Custard but I ordered some last Monday from WL and I'm expecting it to show up tomorrow or Friday. I will try using the TFA Vanilla Custard or Signature Custard I have and see how this recipe turns out for me. I'm going to mix this up right now! lol.

 

[matrix961]

Hey matrix961, I'm liking what I'm seeing in this latest recipe! From my own tests and conclusions using almost all of these flavors myself in trying to get this clone, your %'ages look really good to me as well as your list of ingredients. I just experimented with several milk flavors the other night and was surprised at the smoothness they brought to the table used at lower %'ages. I'm currently missing the CAP Vanilla Custard but I ordered some last Monday from WL and I'm expecting it to show up tomorrow or Friday. I will try using the TFA Vanilla Custard or Signature Custard I have and see how this recipe turns out for me. I'm going to mix this up right now! lol.

Ok just let me know. You should be fine with just the TFA Custard. The difference I notice with using both is more subtle, I don't think just using one or the other should make a huge difference but who knows. I just like them together in some recipes. Also can you tell me how strong the graham clear is? I never had that one and it's still on it's way. I was wondering if it was a stronger or lighter graham. I've always used graham crust and have been happy with it. I like trying new things tho.

Also the milk in this recipe is an attempt to help smooth out the custards. I wanted the creaminess without a real strong custard flavor to interfere with the M&H profile. I'm hoping this is what it has done since I don't taste any real custard notes like I still do with my vanilla milk. I reduced the custards from what they are in the vanilla milk but not by a whole lot so...