Cloud9vaping pulls Five Pawns and other liquids from the shelf after testing.

[kates]

Lack of knowledge? Kates must know since qualified as a c9 except. Maybe kates can explain why c9 sells the troublesome istick 50, and fp is dangerous? Safety first.

What I know is cloud 9 have a policy for selling non D/AP juice and FP do have these in their juices. (They will also, I'm sure, deal with any problems any of their customers have with any of the products they sell). I am not an expert - I just bother to read the information given on both sides. I understand you are unhappy your favourite juice vendor is being attacked - so allowances are made I think I've said enough about the whole subject.

 

[zoiDman]

...

... e-liquids that are completely diacetyl and AP-free, ...

This is Not the 1st Time I have heard Five Pawns say this about their e-liquids.

LOL

 

[Mr.Mann]

This is Not the 1st Time I have heard Five Pawns say this about their e-liquids.

LOL

I know, right?! Ain't that the funniest part. They are doing it again.

 

[zoiDman]

I know, right?! Ain't that the funniest part. They are doing it again.

Yeah... When I read that line from Five Pawns, I could hear the lines from an old song...

"Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss"

Won't Get Fooled Again, The Who, "Who's Next" - 1971

 

[SeniorBoy]

@Mr.Mann - You noticed! Thank you. I had to blink three times, take a break, consult my ex PR lady, and wait a few hours to digest and finish my efforts. /LOL

I'm looking forward to another insightful, fact filled, and on topic post from Mr Burton concerning this issue.

 

[rurwin]

Cloud9 describe the timeline here: Liquid test results - update - Blog - Cloud 9 Vaping

They declined to provide their own test results when we commenced trading at the start of 2015, accordingly (and in accordance with our product testing policy) we submitted 8 Five Pawns liquids to testing at an independent UKAS accredited laboratory.

We published the results approximately 7 weeks after providing them privately to Five Pawns.

By using the Wayback Machine, we can see that they were listing it under Popular Brands on March 15th: Cloud 9 Vaping - electronic cigarettes, e-liquid & vaping supplies
but that it had disappeared by May 27th: Cloud 9 Vaping - electronic cigarettes, e-liquid & vaping supplies
Unfortunately only the front-page was captured in May and there are no samples between those dates, but it does indicate that they likely pulled the line shortly after getting the results and contacting Five Pawns, which I believe I read was circa May 7th.

 

[aikanae1]

I get that, but they said to "to satisfy any customers who are looking for...diacetyl and AP-free...we are introducing a new PG-alternative line."

To me that almost implies a correlation.

And most notable: there was absolutely no mention of DA/AP-free in their previous long article about this new line. So is this a new development? Hmmm...makes you wonder. But if they had previously said they were releasing a new line "free of DA/AP" they would've also implied that their current one was not. And this was prior to the brouhaha (that older article was written in late April of this year) so I guess they wouldn't have done that without showing their cards, or more apropos, their next move. Looks like a "castle" to me. LOL

That statement is confusing as _ _ _ _ (fill in your own fav uncensored word). They must've hired a politico's pr firm because their answer is too similar to the way most politicans respond. Seriously. That is not a normal response imo, even from a marketing firm.

5p feels ok with removing me from making informed decsions about what health risks I choose to make. I am pg sensitive and it looks like their alternative (Zeama) has been on the market for apx 5 yrs in "natural, organic" and "petroleum" free products. I intended to give them the benefit of doubt that 5p's had done their homework - but not with that piece of doublespeak. 5p's has seriously misjudged the vaping community if they believed anything less than straight honest transparency will suffice. That's the same rabbit hole Suicide Bunny got lost in; it wasn't the numbers as much as the decietful response.

Very dissapointing.

Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk

 

[Taaja]

Great, I actually really like Gambit. So there goes Five Pawns out of my daily rotation. Anybody know the results for Milkman? I'm really liking it lately, doubtless this means it'll probably set a new world record or tie Five Pawns for most toxic sludge. Sigh.

I take it that what's left on Cloud 9's site, has been deemed safe, therefore Johnson's Creek is ok. It's starting to feeling like 2010 all over again. Is there any generalized listing of brands of e-juice and their relative ratings? I know that study which mentioned the potential dangers when Suicide Bunny got nailed, failed to list a best/safest collection, even if they didn't want to name the negative ones to trash different companies.

EDIT: OMFG Vaping Rabbit came up clean! Since they're the same company that makes Milkman, I'm hoping for the best despite the fact that it's not tested.

What is the DA? I read above the name of the AP but I really don't know what these ingredients are or what they do. The numbers on the chart, should they be zeroed out where the high numbers are listed in color-coded-columns? Sorry, I'm just new to vaping and the lingo as well. This sounds like something I SHOULD know!!!!!!!!!!

 

[zoiDman]

What is the DA? I read above the name of the AP but I really don't know what these ingredients are or what they do. The numbers on the chart, should they be zeroed out where the high numbers are listed in color-coded-columns? Sorry, I'm just new to vaping and the lingo as well. This sounds like something I SHOULD know!!!!!!!!!!

Many of us are using "Da" as an Abbreviation for Diacetyl (2,3-Butanedione)

 

[Racehorse]

Maybe kates can explain why c9 sells the troublesome iStick 50

A moderator has already entered the Vaporshark topic and said that bringing in hardware issues to a topic about ejuice....that those posts will be deleted.

This was done because, like you, the person was trying to change the subject by bringing in issues that have nothing to do with the topic which was about ejuice.

THIS topic, which is Cloud9 Vaping Pulls Five Pawns from their Shelves, and which is what most people are in this topic to discuss. It is not about vaping hardware sold by vendors.

It is understandable that out of frustration when one is losing in a debate, that it is easy to default to subject changing---- but if you want to talk about faulty hardware, and the vendors who sell it, please start a separate topic on that. There will be hundreds of names and it really deserves it's own topic......just like this one does, which is about Five Pawns.

 

[SeniorBoy]

A moderator has already entered the Vaporshark topic and said that bringing in hardware issues to a topic about ejuice....that those posts will be deleted.

This was done because, like you, the person was trying to change the subject by bringing in issues that have nothing to do with the topic which was about ejuice.

THIS topic, which is Cloud9 Vaping Pulls Five Pawns from their Shelves, and which is what most people are in this topic to discuss. It is not about vaping hardware sold by vendors.

It is understandable that out of frustration when one is losing in a debate, that it is easy to default to subject changing---- but if you want to talk about faulty hardware, and the vendors who sell it, please start a separate topic on that. There will be hundreds of names and it really deserves it's own topic......just like this one does, which is about Five Pawns.

Red by me. Thanks and Ditto!

 

[rurwin]

What is the DA?

This handy poster tells you everything you need to know in an easily digestible form: http://gfn.net.co/downloads/2014/posters/122 Farsalinos - DA_AP.pdf

 

[Igor Novak]

Why you people even bother any more to reply to Pinggolfer posts? He apparently is pushing you here all so thread can be closed. Just ignore him.
His posts are poor repetition, nothing more.
By the way I never bought anything from Cloud9 and VaporShark because they have only expensive shipping to my country, but I will definitely buy something now to support them and I call all of you to do the same. Even if its only pack of cotton. They are piooner of safe Vaping not those....uh.... I don't know how to called them....those 5 imbec.... from FP.
No, no, no, we will not sit down and shut up!
Yes we will always support whistleblowers(do you also call in your country like this people that finger point to problem)!
And yes, I will personally held guilty FP if FDA banned e-cig or just open tank system, but again I know FP don't care they are here just to make money. They will probably open high end liqueur shop after this.

 

[kates]

And yes, I will personally held guilty FP if FDA banned e-cig or just open tank system

Here in Europe we are already facing this - amongst other things the max. tank size will be 2ml from May 2016 and it will need to be leak-free filling/ tamper proof (no-one has any idea what that actually means). I smoked for 38 years - with these regulations( and the max nicotine level of 20mg) I doubt I would have stopped.The general consensus in the UK is we need to be totally transparent as we want to stop any further external 'regulation' and fight to change existing. We can only fight the nonsense if we acknowledge and deal responsibly with areas that may have potential problems. Reputable companies already have a testing policy - and after this I think most will start posting results - so something good will come out of this. Totally Wicked are legally challenging the TPD (they posted all their test results for flavours and juice online yesterday) but these regulations are passed and will be in place in Europe early next year.

 

[USACelt]

http://fivepawns.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Five-Pawns-2014-Diacetyl-Test-Results.pdf

I don't know if this has been looked at or posted here, I do find the discussion interesting all the same

Or this

Five Pawns - Be Informed - Five Pawns

I got no dog in this hunt I am 100% DIY now .

 

[kates]

An interesting article/ summary
DA and AP in E-Liquid: Five Pawns, the Reliability of Results and the Worst Offenders to Date -

 

[ReacT]

I just wanted to post this here as well, because the other fivepawns thread is closed and I'm not going to allow my post to become hidden.

I just wanted to share cloud9 company test results and you can simply calculate how much Acetyl Propionyl you were vaping. Dont misunderstand me, I am not a hater, I was a big fan of castle long. I dont see any reason for cloud9 company to lie or create fake test results, they are reseller of fivepawns and the company withdrawn the whole stock which costs them a lot money.

1ppm = 1 microgram.
The safe limit of daily exposure to AP is 135 micrograms.

So I was vaping castlelong all day, it has 900ppm Acetyl Propionyl, I was vaping 5ml per day, that means I was getting 5x900 = 4500 micrograms Acetyl Propionyl. Holy c****, I was also paying $27.5 for getting 4500 microgram AP daily........ Can we make competition ? who is getting the highest AP ? lol. I guess it will be the one who vapes Absolute Pin everyday. Fivepawns needs to sit their as.. and re-formule their liquids with V2 and DX version of flavors which are completely acetoin and AP free flavors already released few months ago. Why not to solve the issue from its root ? They can do that. The only thing they need to do is, ordering v2 version of flavors, they are the same flavors without ap lol.

 

[Robino1]

@react I was super conflicted about closing that thread because there was so much information in it. I'm glad you reposted here. I wish I had seen that thread when it was created because I could have merged them at that point in time and the flow would not have been messed up.

If people would report a duplicate when it is made, we can either merge or close so we don't lose valuable information.
Merging at the point of closing would not have worked with the thread in question. Posts get inserted by the time stamp they received when the posts were made.

@ anyone that feels that someone should just be quiet because they go against the popular belief of what a majority of the people posting, please remember it might just be you next time an issue arises in the community. Would you want to be called a troll or be told to drop it?

This is to Everyone: do NOT make it personal. Attack the POST, not the Poster.

As Racehorse said, the conversation is about DAP, not hardware. Let's keep this on topic and civil.

Thanks in advance

 

[Robino1]

SmokeyJoe just posted this on the ongoing thread in General Vaping:

I've just blogged my thoughts on the DA/AP issue. I've approached this from a wider and historical perspective.

It's a bit of an essay, but I wanted to get all my thoughts down!

Read it here: Confused about diacetyl? You should be | Vaping.com

 

[LouisLeBeau]

Thank you Robino, for that link. That is the best, most objective and fully explained summary on the topic I have seen yet.

When I smoked cigarettes, "safer" had sufficient appeal to lure me to vaping.
I thought Vaping would be a transitory stage in my ultimate goal to quit.
I found that I LOVE vaping. The gear, the flavors, the tech, the hobby, the people.
Now that this is the case, "safer" is no longer good enough for me. I will be exposed for many years to come.
SAFE is my current goal. It is a much higher bar than "safer". I think many feel the same way.
There is not yet sufficient science to assure "Safe", but there is enough to at least improve on "safer".
Manufacturers who claim "safe" and lie, and fall back on "safer" when caught, are jeopardizing my goal for their profit and do NOT belong in this game.
I think it is correct to expose, hound, and vilify manufacturers who knowingly deceive their customers at the risk of their health for profit.
My hope is that experiences like this one with regards to 5P and Suicide Bunny will compel all manufacturers to be UPFRONT with their customers.
Thanks for your efforts in providing a venue where these things can be brought to light and discussed.