Congress to grant FDA approval to regulate tobacco

Discussion in 'Legislation News' started by jbbishop, Mar 3, 2009.

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  1. jbbishop

    jbbishop Senior Member ECF Veteran

    With the media attention electronic cigarettes have gained lately, will this renewed attempt at legislation also incorporate broader controls to allow the FDA to regulate nicotine and thus electronic cigarettes? How is the FDA to demand the farcical elimination of cancer causing chemicals in cigarette smoke without banning cigarettes? Will the elimination of menthol and other flavors in tobacco products make any sense to anybody?

    Congress renews push to regulate cigarettes - Capitol Hill- msnbc.com

    Congress renews push to regulate cigarettes

    Legislation passed House last year but faced veto threat from Bush

    [​IMG]updated 1:29 p.m. MT, Mon., March. 2, 2009

    WASHINGTON - With support from a president who's been trying to kick the habit himself, lawmakers renewed their efforts Monday to require government regulation of cigarettes.
    President Barack Obama has been an occasional smoker who acknowledged recently that quitting hasn't been easy. While in the Senate last year he co-sponsored legislation that would have given the Food and Drug Administration authority to regulate cigarettes and other tobacco products, to reduce the harm from smoking.
    The broadly popular legislation passed the House last summer but faced a veto threat from then-President George W. Bush and didn't get a vote in the Senate.
    Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., who's fought for years for government regulation of tobacco products, reintroduced the bill Monday. He plans to bring it to a vote Wednesday in the Energy and Commerce Committee, which he chairs, and advocates hope for quick action on the House floor.
    "Federal government oversight is necessary to hold the industry accountable," said Nancy Brown, head of the American Heart Association. "We hope this will lead to swift congressional action."
    Opponents of the legislation have contended the FDA is not up to the job.
    "I believe it's going to gut the agency's resources and distract it from its core mission," said Dr. Scott Gottlieb, policy expert at the American Enterprise Institute and a deputy FDA commissioner during the Bush administration.
    Sen. Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts, who chairs the Senate's health committee, plans to reintroduce a Senate version of the bill in coming weeks. Last year his bill had 60 co-sponsors, including Obama — enough to overcome a filibuster. Now there are even more Democrats in the Senate, probably increasing the likelihood of passage.
    An earlier version of the bill passed the Senate in 2004.
    While the legislation would not let the FDA outlaw tobacco or nicotine, the agency could demand the reduction or elimination of cancer-causing chemicals in cigarette smoke. The bill would prohibit candy flavored cigars and cigarettes, and would give the FDA authority to ban menthol.
    The bill that advanced last year was a compromise between major tobacco control groups and Philip Morris USA, the nation's largest tobacco company.
    Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
     
  2. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Cigarettes aren't proposed for a ban. No one sees that happening.

    But if cancer-causing substances are disallowed in tobacco smoke, guess whose job that is to eliminate them? Not the FDA's. It only has to say that in the interest of public health, specific named carcinogens are henceforth illegal in any product intended for inhalation or ingestion. It has the power to do that. It will be up to manufacturers alone to figure out the next step.

    Menthol was the one flavor considered too popular to exclude from cigarettes -- until Rush Limbaugh said this was a plot to kill black people, who disproportionately prefer menthol cigarettes to regular ones. Soooo... back to the drawing board and menthol is on the table for elimination.

    But the worst fear is that nicotine content will be set to a much lower level than now found in cigarettes. To lessen dangers to the heart and circulatory system, nicotine might be allowed at one-fifth the present level. If that happens, addicts will go nuts, trying to get a fix from a product rendered impotent.
     
  3. b00stzx3

    b00stzx3 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    This is news to me, you mean the FDA doesn't regulate cigarettes and tobacco? Are you kidding me? 50 years of knowing how bad these things are and they aren't regulated. Unbelievable. Then again, nothing common sense is possible with lobbyists still existing. Good, regulate them to death.
     
  4. OutWest

    OutWest Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    ^ careful what you wish for. The next step would be to regulate the maximum amount of nicotine in e-cig liquid (think 4mg max or so) and to ban flavored e-cig liquid (or at least the non-tobacco flavors).
     
  5. devonschmoker

    devonschmoker Senior Member ECF Veteran

    This may lead Big Tobacco to start manufacturing PVDs or at least re-branding and getting approvals for the current Chinese devices. This could be either a really good thing or a really bad thing. RJ Reynolds is a bit ahead of the curve. They may actually bring back Premier or something like it and they already have Eclipse out there. I don’t think that the FDA will mess with nicotine content for a while as it would be too much of a mess. But they will eventually. That is assuming this passes.
     
  6. redvengeance

    redvengeance Full Member

    As for the FDA seeing fit to regulate nicotine for being a poison, well...it takes 60 milligrams of PURE nicotine to kill someone. The nicotine in e-cigs is mixed with propylene glycol, water, and flavoring. Then in cartridges, there is a little bit of fuzz to contain the mixture.

    AGAIN...the nicotine in e-cigs or any other form utilized by smokers or chewers is NOT pure. So it is like the nicotine in amy other smoking or chewing tobacco product.

    I would say it would be just as possible for someone to potentially poison themselves with chewing tobacco as they would from an e-cig cartridge. The amount of nicotine in a regular "chaw" is 4.5 milligrams. There are maybe 20 "dips" in a can. So if you downed a whole can...the results could be potentially fatal with 90 milligrams or so.

    I am told that a baby can die from consuming two cigarette butts, but I cant find anywhere to verify this...so I may be wrong on that. But I do know that a few cigarette butts can be fatal to a small dog. Usually vomiting takes care of that, however.

    This the breakdown I received from a e-cig manufacturer:

    1. Nicotine Concentration - E-Cig Cartridges.

    Cartridge Types
    Niotine Cocentration
    Niotine-Free
    0 mg
    Low-Density
    10 mg
    Medium-Density
    14mg, 16 mg
    High-Density
    18mg, 24 mg


    2. Nicotine Content of Each Puff You Take (for Real Cigarette)

    One Real Cigarette
    Nicotine Content: 0.6mg ~ 2.4mg
    Puffs to take for each cigarette
    15 puffs
    Nicotine Content inhaled at each puff
    0.04mg ~ 0.16mg
    (0.6mg/15=0.04mg, 2.4mg/15=0.16mg)


    3. Nicotine Content of Each Puff You Take (for Electronic Cigarette)

    Puffs to take for each cigarette
    approximately 150 puffs
    Nicotine Content inhaled at each puff
    Nicotine-Free Cartridge: 0mg/150 = 0 mg
    Low-Density Cartridge: 10mg/150 = 0.066mg
    Medium-Density Cartridge: 0.093mg ~ 0.107mg
    High-Density Cartridge: 0.120mg ~ 0.160mg
     
  7. LuckySevens4U

    LuckySevens4U Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    2 things here...what is wrong with menthol? Would the menthol in the e liquid be the same as in the cigs? Am I reading this correctly that you have to take tons more puffs on the e cig to equal smoking a real cig?
     
  8. Kate

    Kate Moved On

  9. Denni

    Denni Super Member ECF Veteran

    It takes 60mg of nicotine to kill an adult, whether the stuff is 'pure' or not. This means less than 2ml of the 36mg/ml juice. So yes, we're dealing with a highly toxic substance.

    You don't want your baby to suckle on a cartridge, not stroke your pet after you've just changed or topped up a cartridge.
     
  10. Dude

    Dude Full Member ECF Veteran

    Hopefully this isn't off topic, and I don't know if I can yet post links, but I found this article particularly interesting as a possible reason why Big Tobacco (i.e. Philip Morris) would welcome regulation of its industry. I only bring this article to your attention, because it raises soem interesting questions as to how Big tobacco, the FDA, and the drug companies could partner to control nicotine. I don't know the credibility of the author or organization, but nonetheless, the topics are intriguing.

    www (dot) forces (dot) org/writers/kjono/pdf/tobacco_control_and_fda_regulation.pdf
     
  11. redvengeance

    redvengeance Full Member

    As for the FDA seeing fit to regulate nicotine for being a poison, well...it takes 60 milligrams of PURE nicotine to kill someone. The nicotine in e-cigs is mixed with propylene glycol, water, and flavoring. Then in cartridges, there is a little bit of fuzz to contain the mixture.

    AGAIN...the nicotine in e-cigs or any other form utilized by smokers or chewers is NOT pure. So it is like the nicotine in amy other smoking or chewing tobacco product.

    I would say it would be just as possible for someone to potentially poison themselves with chewing tobacco as they would from an e-cig cartridge. The amount of nicotine in a regular "chaw" is 4.5 milligrams. There are maybe 20 "dips" in a can. So if you downed a whole can...the results could be potentially fatal with 90 milligrams or so.

    I am told that a baby can die from consuming two cigarette butts, but I cant find anywhere to verify this...so I may be wrong on that. But I do know that a few cigarette butts can be fatal to a small dog. Usually vomiting takes care of that, however.

    This the breakdown I received from a e-cig manufacturer:

    1. Nicotine Concentration - E-Cig Cartridges.

    Cartridge Types
    Niotine Cocentration
    Niotine-Free
    0 mg
    Low-Density
    10 mg
    Medium-Density
    14mg, 16 mg
    High-Density
    18mg, 24 mg


    2. Nicotine Content of Each Puff You Take (for Real Cigarette)

    One Real Cigarette
    Nicotine Content: 0.6mg ~ 2.4mg
    Puffs to take for each cigarette
    15 puffs
    Nicotine Content inhaled at each puff
    0.04mg ~ 0.16mg
    (0.6mg/15=0.04mg, 2.4mg/15=0.16mg)


    3. Nicotine Content of Each Puff You Take (for Electronic Cigarette)

    Puffs to take for each cigarette
    approximately 150 puffs
    Nicotine Content inhaled at each puff
    Nicotine-Free Cartridge: 0mg/150 = 0 mg
    Low-Density Cartridge: 10mg/150 = 0.066mg
    Medium-Density Cartridge: 0.093mg ~ 0.107mg
    High-Density Cartridge: 0.120mg ~ 0.160mg
     
  12. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    What's the deal with the repeat posting?

    Manufacturers say all sorts of things by the way. Diluted or not 36mg of nicotine per ml is still 36mg of nicotine.
     
  13. redvengeance

    redvengeance Full Member

    Not sure what happened with the repeat posting? Sorry bout that...something glitchy I think!
     
  14. redvengeance

    redvengeance Full Member

    Oh sure, yeah, miligrams are miligrams. That is what I was kinda trying to say...that there is no additional danger to an e-cigarette than there is to the other tobacco products out there. But yeah, you wouldnt want a kid to suck on a cartridge...thats for sure.
     
  15. LuckySevens4U

    LuckySevens4U Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    So If I am bound and determined to cut down on nic and stop the ciggys, am I approximately right in saying that if I only used, and made myself stick to it to start, 11 mg and 2 drops of liquid x 5 times in a day, that would equal approximately 10 reg ciggys 1/2 a pack of cigs, right?
     
  16. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Aye Red, I think the worry comes with the concentration, so little is needed to be toxic.

    Manufacturers and sellers are notorious for spinning tales about their products, the claims about cartridges and nicotine can be downright dangerous. Have a look here for some more myths - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ussion/3992-esmoking-myths-11.html#post104155

    EDIT

    2 x drops x 5 would equal around 5 average cigs Lucky. It's 2 drops x 11mg for one (approximately).
     
  17. LuckySevens4U

    LuckySevens4U Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    So approximately If I MAKE myself not use more than 20 drops a day of 11 mg, that would equal approx 10 regular ciggys in nic content. Is this now right Kate?
     
  18. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    That's how the maths works out Lucky, so yes, approximately.

    Unfortunately this isn't an exact science so it's not possible to say for sure but that should be close.
     
  19. LuckySevens4U

    LuckySevens4U Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Thanks, Kate. I just wanted SOME basic concept of my control here when I start. I'm going to have to use discipline.
     
  20. LuckySevens4U

    LuckySevens4U Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    20 drops then would be approx 1 ml. 40 drops would be 2 ml and what the average pack a day smoker would use. Correct?
     
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