Cross Contamination

[DragonVapor]

Great post HK....


I thing of note though.... The spirit that created the original vampire in rices book had learned to make itself more powerful by feeding on blood... that is how it became powerful enough to display poltergeist like behavior. So more bodies Linked to this spirit (who's material core is now in Maharet's sister) would make it more powerful... thus correcting the "finite essence" problem... I also think that they mentioned that the material core of this spirit had grown enough to be visible by those without the site and that its essence that could only been seen by the sisters had grown as well... but I honestly don't recall... I think its time to reread those


So... We are all agreed that if a zombie bit a vampire it would have little to no effect? And no one can think of any combination of vampire/zombie lore that would make it otherwise?

(Night of the comet radiation zombies maybe? Or Dusk till Dawn’s ... alien vampires)

HK... would you feel okay launching the thread for zombie bitten by a vampire? I think any insight you have would give us a nice place to start.

 

[DragonVapor]

browser was messing up

 

[lorikay13]

When we are done figuring out what happens when a Vamp bites a Zombie I would like to talk about the concept of training Zombies. I think this is one of those things we should try to figure out BEFORE they come!

I do not have nearly the technical or literature based knowledge you guys do.....don't kill me...but I can't stand Anne Rice books. Maybe I'll try again some day but I just found her to be a terrible writer. Anyway....intuitively I feel that if a Vampire bit a Zombie nothing would happen. Because isn't the entire concept of Vamparism that Vampires feed on the LIVING? So I think the Zombie would just turn around and tear the Vampire to pieces. And then where are we? Would those pieces remain animate?

 

[DragonVapor]

When we are done figuring out what happens when a Vamp bites a Zombie I would like to talk about the concept of training Zombies. I think this is one of those things we should try to figure out BEFORE they come!

I do not have nearly the technical or literature based knowledge you guys do.....don't kill me...but I can't stand Anne Rice books. Maybe I'll try again some day but I just found her to be a terrible writer. Anyway....intuitively I feel that if a Vampire bit a Zombie nothing would happen. Because isn't the entire concept of Vamparism that Vampires feed on the LIVING? So I think the Zombie would just turn around and tear the Vampire to pieces. And then where are we? Would those pieces remain animate?

lol Two Diff threads... this is the zombie bites a vampire thread... and feel free to start a zombie training thread if it pleases you to do such... I know alot of movies have touched on zombies being able to learn to some degree..

 

[lorikay13]

But that's the thing.....a Zombie wouldn't just bite a Vampire.....it would eat him/her. So any way you look at it I think the Vampire loses. Now if your asking rather the Zombie gains some kind of super powers after eating the Vampire that's different, right?

 

[MistaKuraudo]

That's IF a zombie would get it's hands on a vampire. Either way, I don't think a zombie would affect a vampire or vice-versa. I doubt they would even try to hunt each other down. Most zombies go after living flesh, and I doubt they would be attracted to vampire blood. Same goes with vampires for a different reason. Why would they want dead, rotting blood when they could just get it from a human? Either way, I don't think they would have any effect.

Now if a zombie bit a transformed werewolf? I think we may have something special there.

 

[CES]

Maybe werewolf zombies would be easier to train? At least if you go them young enough.

What might happen when a vampire bites a zombie, or vice versa, becomes less of a moot point when all the living are gone (which is likely to happen in fairly short order if both are on the loose) but, i guess at that point none of us will care much.

 

[lorikay13]

threadkiller! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[CES]

Yeah, so!?

It's not like i haven't done it before

 

[MistaKuraudo]

Lol. I just thought of a ridiculous idea because of the talk about shining vampires from... the other thread I believe? So IF powers were fused by say, a shining vampire biting a zombie, it would just be hilariously evil.

OMG, it's super strong, super fast, shines in light and can read my mind so it knows how tasty it is! Either that, or it can see the future, so you can't run from it because it'll always know where you're hiding, or make you feel like you're in pain so you'll be an easier meal that won't run away. Such overpowered zombies would be near impossible to survive against. And the "shining" property is just like a slap in the face. You see it coming because, well, it's shiny, but you know you probably can't run away or fight it. It's just a shiny signal of death for you. Not to mention that if you're wounded, the blood will attract them even more. Sad day if the apocalypse is caused by shining zombies.

 

[HK-47]

Speculation: Zombies generally across most lores tend to need or want to feed on warm flesh. They've been known in several lores to ignore most animals as well, even while living, in favor of even standing around in large groups doing nothing while animals have passed in their presence. Not registering to a zombie on a 'prey' meter, perhaps.

That being said, vampires should be of little to no interest to zombies for much the same reason. A vampire may be of some interest immediately after feeding, as they're full of warm blood. Zombies may sense this at this point, and seek to go after a vampire. It's unlikely any zombies that are even fast ones should be able to catch a vampire, however. Vampires also should not be overly interested in zombies for the same reason, they're dead, and the blood has changed in nature even if it is 'fresh' from a newly turned zombie.

Vampires, though, in the event of an actual large-scale zombie outbreak/apocalypse would likely prove valuable allies to humans. Not so much for our sake, particularly, but for reasons of self-preservation. It is my belief that if a zombie apocalypse occurred, vampires would come out openly and begin to slaughter them efficiently and without mercy...so that their pool of humans to be fed upon wouldn't all be turned into decaying reanimated corpses. They would be more effective fighters in most regards than any human, barring the use of large scale techs like bombs.

 

[MistaKuraudo]

But like most other movies, if vampires come out into the open they'll be discriminated against and this would ultimately lead to a three-way battle, with humans in the worst possible situation.

And I thought of another question.

What would happen if a zombie infects a human at the same time a vampires turns a human? Would that human have both qualities from each or would one overpower the other? Hmmm... that's another version of the "cross contamination" idea of this thread right?

 

[HK-47]

Speculation:

If a zombie attacks a human, then a vampire drains them and turns them
If the zombie virus is present in the human body but the human is still alive at that point, and a vampire then drains that human of blood and completes the process by transferring vampire/human/zombie mixed blood back to the human, it is possible that the zombie virus would remain permanently within the new vampire, sealed in by the process of vampirification. It's my theory that the zombie virus would not be beneficial as it's known to be necrotic (decays tissue) but if it was freshly applied and then the human was turned in short order (as well as mostly unharmed, or it would make a fugly vampire) then there exists a likely possibility that transmission of the zombie virus would be possible any time it came into contact with any other humans during feeding or injury resulting in blood transmission to a human. I highly doubt that the existence of the zombie virus would add or detract noticeably to the new vampire. This is, of course, assuming that the vampirism itself does not extinguish the zombie virus during creation.

If a vampire begins to turn a human, but before the mortal shell has completely died it gets infected by the zombie virus
This is where it could get interesting. In most vampire lores, transformation is not instantaneous. There is a small window of time before complete transformation into a vampire. This process usually ranges from one night to a few days, during which the human begins to awaken to vampire senses as well as changes in the body happen. Such changes are known to include:
-complete emptying of nearly all normal human bodily fluids up to and including organs such as the intestinal tract, stomach, etc.
-changes in teeth, skin texture, makeup of the eyes and other features usually associated with vampirism
-'solidification' of the vampire infection/virus, for lack of a better term, whereupon transformation is complete and it locks in the genetic blueprint for constant regeneration given appropriate blood. At this point, changes to the body are hypothesized to be impossible as the condition of vampirism traditionally makes alteration impossible.


Theory: If a freshly turned vampire, but one who has not fully completed the transformation was infected by the zombie virus it is possible that then the zombie virus would be fundamentally imbedded in the vampire's genetic structure but be unable to mutate or decay. This would lead to a few likely potential outcomes:

-a vampire with little or no cognitive ability, fundamentally the same as a zombie except with the speed, strength and senses of a vampire (most likely). It would be expected that a vampire like this would not survive long, as it would lack the necessary cognitive skills to avoid sunlight and would die shortly after creation. Could be devastating, but very likely only for a day or two at most depending on the strength of the creator vampire. Sufficiently strong vampires are known to have sunlight resistance.
-a vampire with full cognitive ability but acts as a plague carrier for the zombie virus permanently (also likely). Transmission of the zombie virus would happen any time this vampire would feed, or is injured and blood splashed into a human (say, in the mouth from a shotgun blast) this human would then be infected with the zombie virus. The zombie virus does not have a very noticeable impact on a living human until the body undergoes death, at which point the virus takes over and reanimates the dead flesh. Vampiric transformation is likely not the same as typical mortal death.
-a vampire with full cognitive abilities but with increased resistance to pain and weariness than vampires normally have thanks to the zombie virus. In essence, a slightly improved vampire perhaps even with the ability to communicate effectively with zombies if they have higher order communication functions. (unlikely, but possible)
-a vampire that has the full powers of a vampire, but begins to decay like a zombie. Unlikely due to the static nature of vampirism.

 

[CES]

so, most likely we get vampires as carriers of the zombie virus, and/or living humans that might be OK, but will become zombies once they die.

Great...try getting insurance if you're the latter.

 

[HK-47]

Speculation: It is my theory that vampires in the event of a large scale zombie outbreak would be very unlikely to be focusing at all on creating new vampires. Here are a few potential reasons....

1) Given that many humans will be dying during a large scale zombie outbreak, vampires would be facing a 'famine' of sorts when it came to acquiring fresh blood from humans depending on the scale of the outbreak. It would not generally be in a vampire's best interests to then go about turning humans to create more vampires as that would increase the speed at which vampires might starve. It is further in the vampire's interests to assist humans directly or indirectly in destroying and/or containing the zombie outbreak for reasons of pure survival.

2) There is generally a lot of chaos during zombie outbreaks and there are few refuges which can be considered any measure of safe for very long. Most vampire lores hold that it takes a lot of strength out of a vampire to create a new one, and the last thing any sensible vampire would want to do is weaken themselves in the middle of a chaotic mess in order to create a new vampire. They are more likely to feed swiftly upon a human that they find to keep going, and more likely to kill said human to get as much blood as they can since they may be unsure when they could find another human from which to feed.

3) Vampires can, if they so choose, live off the blood of livestock or other animals. Most don't seem to prefer this, but they can make do. Given that vampires have superior senses to most humans as well as added resistances or immunities to pain and injury, it is expected that a majority of vampires would be FAR more capable of simply 'going into the wild' and making do until things calmed down. They have a greater capability to do this, especially if the vampire has the ability to mist into the ground for a safe refuge from sunlight, or lingers near caves in remote areas where they can get shelter from the sun. Those vampires that would choose not to remain in cities would then pose a much greater risk to humans when they came upon them, but the chances of any cross contamination questions are also equally reduced.

 

[CES]

So, following your logic, we should be more worried about starving vampires biting zombies...or vampires killing us rather than turning us.

Unless...

the other option that vampires have would be to gather a small number of humans, and essentially farm them. The easiest way for vampires to assure their blood farm while limiting direct conflict with zombies would be to create an nice attractive oasis. Something like a casino or resort or something...http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/zombie-vapers/166200-after-z-day-hits-would-you-rather.html

Any thoughts on this Mac? hmmmmm? you got some 'splaining to do when you get back...

 

[MistaKuraudo]

What if the vampire venom and zombie virus in a human actually rejected each other? The zombie virus would seek to destroy and/or alter cells in the body while the beginning effects of the vampire venom was in a continued state of helping restore the cells that the virus is trying to change. All the while the human's regular cells were still fully functional. It could end up rapidly evolving both the venom and the virus to the point where if one of them won and took over the body, that body could become either a super zombie or super vampire.

 

[HK-47]

Speculation: I find it highly unlikely that vampires would have any interest in attempting to feed from zombies at all. Given the state of decomposition, the blood would be highly unsatisfactory. Most vampire lores also hold that it can kill a vampire to feed on a human until it dies, or to feed upon a dead body. It's likely a vampire would find more sustenance from a rat than a zombie more than a few hours old. As stated above it's in the vampire's best interests to eliminate zombies to preserve humans as 'cattle' or leave the scene of the outbreak altogether.

It is possible, but unlikely, that a group of vampires, coming out openly after a zombie outbreak may 'round up' a group of humans and offer protection in exchange for periodic feeding. This still leaves said vampires exposed potentially during daylight hours when they would need to sleep to a group of humans who are a) in the middle of a catastrophic zombie outbreak with all the associated stress and loss and b) just realizing that vampires are indeed not a myth. Highly dangerous for the vampires, but not outside the realm of probability.

The other option would be that the vampires would simply keep a group of humans locked up in some fashion and feed on them as necessary, doing what they had to do to keep the humans alive but offering them no chance at freedom to strike back at the vampires. Of the two, this is the much more likely scenario in my opinion.

 

[HK-47]

What if the vampire venom and zombie virus in a human actually rejected each other? The zombie virus would seek to destroy and/or alter cells in the body while the beginning effects of the vampire venom was in a continued state of helping restore the cells that the virus is trying to change. All the while the human's regular cells were still fully functional. It could end up rapidly evolving both the venom and the virus to the point where if one of them won and took over the body, that body could become either a super zombie or super vampire.

Theoretical analysis: What you propose is indeed possible, but there simply isn't enough data to anticipate what possible effects could arise from this. Typically, the zombie virus is far from beneficial....deadening the body, as it were. The opposite is true in vampirism, whereupon there is usually only an increased sensitivity and damage caused from sunlight but noticeable gains in perception, strength and speed. It doesn't much stand to reason though that if these two infections were fighting each other that the end result would be a stronger transformation, but it is possible.

I posit that we should ensnare both a vampire and a zombie in a highly controlled situation and conduct further analysis on each infection individually, then see what happens under a microscope when we try to merge them on a cellular level prior to testing this theory out in a living host. If the two infections actually counter each other in a blood sample, but the end result is a stronger infection of one or the other....the resulting mutations or changes are incredibly hard to predict.

If it did result in a sort of super-vampire or super-zombie, we as humans would want to tactically analyze likely ways we can counter that in future outbreaks or it could have devastating consequences.

 

[MistaKuraudo]

True. In the case of the zombie virus evolving, it could even mean that the virus could spread at an incredibly fast rate. Perhaps maybe even mutate into a worst-case-scenario type of an airborne zombie virus.