Curious about artificially flavored clove vape juice.

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Innomen

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Aug 2, 2015
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Curious if whether or not an artificially flavored clove vape juice exists.

I bought a mix from mtbakervapor.com and it gave me a lung reaction, but it tasted EXACTLY like clove cigs used to taste to me so I'm assuming they used Eugenol (actual clove oil) and I'm curious if I can get a synthetic version.

When I asked what was in the one they sent me (now discontinued) as compared to what is in the new flavor, they said: "Unfortunately we are not able to give out that information as it is proprietary knowledge."

Naturally I'll NEVER buy from them again. That made me so mad. I feel like just saying to them like, Wow. Really? You're going to cry trade secrets? Thanks for making the whole vape community look shady, and making over regulation of vape one step closer to reality.

Guess we really do need the FDA to step in and force companies to put an ingredients label on there.

People are allergic to things. What they going to do when someone uses the product and goes into anaphylactic shock? Wait for them to sue before telling them what triggered it?

I told them I had a lung reaction and their response was not to use that juice anymore. Well yeah, duh. But I'd like to avoid it in the future too but I have to know -what- to avoid.

And it's so stupid too because all they are doing is punishing people who don't have the money to pay for a lab test. If a competitor wanted to copy a juice all they'd have to do is send a sample of it here:
Wet Chemistry, ICP Chemistry | Laboratory Testing Inc.

Besides an ingredient list is not the same as a recipe. Ask any chef. I'm not asking for ratios and preparation.

And I have exactly zero interest in running an ejuice store.

That answer infuriated me.

Anyway, my question at this point is as follows: Does imitation clove flavoring or oil even exist?

Thank you for your time. Sorry for the rant/wall of text.
 

bwh79

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I bought a mix from mtbakervapor.com and it gave me a lung reaction, but it tasted EXACTLY like clove cigs used to taste to me so I'm assuming they used Eugenol (actual clove oil) and I'm curious if I can get a synthetic version.
Presumably you've smoked the real ones before, if you know what they taste like. Did they give you the same reaction? I don't know about FA (Flavourart Art) or others, but I do know that TFA (The Flavor Apprentice) clove flavor is nothing more than 20% eugenol in propylene glycol.

When I asked what was in the one they sent me (now discontinued) as compared to what is in the new flavor, they said: "Unfortunately we are not able to give out that information as it is proprietary knowledge."

Naturally I'll NEVER buy from them again. That made me so mad. I feel like just saying to them like, Wow. Really? You're going to cry trade secrets? Thanks for making the whole vape community look shady, and making over regulation of vape one step closer to reality.

Guess we really do need the FDA to step in and force companies to put an ingredients label on there.
They do tell you what's in them, or at least most do: "natural and artificial flavors." I don't imagine you'd get much more than that from someone like Coke or Pepsi, either. Are you going to boycott their products, as well?
 

Innomen

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Aug 2, 2015
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Did they give you the same reaction?

Yes, it's due to numbing of the cilia combined with irritation of the lung surface. Kind of a temporary emphysema effect hehe. Clove oil is an anesthetic and an irritant. The effect I am getting is due to those properties. Neither of which would be present in a synthetic flavor.

Are you going to boycott their products, as well?

Hmm, well I don't know, are you going to start boiling and snorting your Pepsi?

Obviously that's apples and oranges. When we're talking about regulated food ingredients (each of which has been vetted and approved individually at some stage for consumption at least in trace amounts and not inhalation) vs vaporized inhalants, it's a whole different ball game legally, chemically, biologically, and ethically.

If the companies keep hiding behind that shield they'll end up being regulated as an OTC medication, (like nicotine gum) or just banned, which is 1000x worse for everyone. And I guess they should be if people are going to say stuff like you just did when other people want a simple freaking ingredient list.

By your logic they shouldn't have to disclose anything but the base and the nicotine because the whole concept is just nicotine and "natural and artificial flavors."

When I flip over a can of soup it doesn't say "Ingredients: Water, natural and artificial flavors."

Obviously there needs to be a different standard here.

What if I am allergic to peppermint? You saying I don't have the right to know if a given vape mix may kill me?

And anyway if we're bringing up foods, they also say "Processed in a facility that also processes nuts." The food industry only gets to hide behind the "natural and artificial flavors" blanket because they are trace amounts of inert materials at the scales we're talking about when we talk about consumption. But even they recognize that trace amounts are important from an allergic reaction stand point.

If we on the other hand inhaled our cookies you better believe the FDA would have made them list, down to the parts per million range, every last molecule and compound present.

So let's just say I'm allergic to eugenol and want to know which ones have it and which ones don't.

That is in no sense unreasonable and I don't appreciate being mocked and scolded as if it were.
 
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