Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[bigdancehawk]

But unfortunately, the small businesses never took this seriously and didn't choose to make a difference. Most vape shops I've been to never believed anything would happen... head in the sand I guess.

About a year ago I went to a local vape shop, one of three owned by the same people. They were bragging about what a nice, clean facility they have for making e-juice. I asked them if they were aware of what the FDA has in store for them. They replied that they weren't worried in the least about that because their facility was so nice and clean that there would be no problem gaining FDA approval. I told them that they were mistaken and they should educate themselves, become very active and join forces with others in opposing the deeming or they might soon find themselves out of business. They looked at me like I was a raving lunatic.

 

[Endor]

I can't say I'm surprised by the reaction here, but I am a little bit disappointed.

On the one hand, there are some obvious issues with the regulations that have been raised. I also understand why small businesses who have invested in this technology are very worried about their future. What I don't get, though, is the view that seems to hold that everything is fine as it is and that no regulations are needed whatsoever.

As someone who uses these products on a daily basis, I want to know what is in them. I want producers to be held to certain standards that ensure that they are as safe as possible. This seems obvious, but it's not the case right now, and I'm really, really not ok with that.

(Also, I've seen at least one person declare that these regulations are "unconstitutional." I'm not really sure where that comes from, since the Constitution clearly empowers the federal government to regulate interstate commerce.)

This is a great post, and took some level of courage to make.... everybody (myself included) is venting right now.

I completely agree with your middle paragraph, and many that have been part of advocacy have proposed just that. In essence, promulgate TRUE regulation like what is done for food and drink. Prohibit the use of potentially inhalation hazards (e.g. diacetyl, AP). Ensure some level of cleanliness in the manufacture of eliquid. Hold manufacturers accountable that nicotine levels are accurate.

It is truly unfortunate that didn't happen.

 

[WharfRat1976]

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with @WharfRat1976. This is OVER.

It's obvious that the FDA has determined to kill vaping in the USA. They have been very thorough in effectively eliminating any and all avenues where vaping is concerned.

For months, I've heard people cry "I'll just DIY!" Well, the FDA was listening. Not only have they covered nicotine, but they targeted flavors and the vials they come in. No, I don't think "but this is for food use" will work. They have also covered all supplies that can even be remotely associated with vaping, down to batteries, cotton, and wire. "But this is for my flashlight" isn't going to cut it either. Do you think the manufacturers of cheap flashlights will pave the way? No, they will integrate batteries into their devices that allows them to be plugged in to charge because they don't want to get involved in the .... storm that is going to surround the vaping community.

And yes, I'm sorry, negativity DOES have a place here. For years we have all dutifully signed all the petitions, called and emailed our representatives and done whatever has been asked of us to thwart this regulation from coming to pass. Did any of this have even the slightest effect on the FDA regulations? No.

Not one thing was changed in the FDA policies. Not one. In fact, it could be argued that it got even worse than originally imagined. Is it realistic to believe that even 100,000 signatures will make a damn bit of difference against the slick lobbying machine that Big Tobacco has running right now? That machine has been vastly effective in attaching a stigma to vapers, perpetuated by our own fools within this community who insist on blowing massive clouds, labeling their juices in the most cartoonish ways imaginable, and stupidly building crappy mods that catch fire. Every story like that is pumped up by the media so now the majority of the world believes that vaping is not safe at all.

Believe me, that's the next step - strengthen that stigma until we as vapors are as ostracized as the cigarette smoking public. Remember, to the average person we ARE smoking. We are sucking on a device and smoke is coming out of our lungs. It doesn't matter how much we cry "it's only vapor!" or "it's not harmful!" - we are smoking in their eyes.

Make no mistake - we are dead meat in the very near future. Sheer optimism and high hopes will do nothing to save us. We don't have the bankroll, and we don't have a snowball's chance in Hell with congress. Can you find more than 5 or 6 congressmen who support vaping and focus on the health benefits? Do you honestly believe a good percentage of hopeful candidates will stand up and voice their support for us when the majority of the voting public has been swayed by the anti-hype or is plain apathetic?

I apologize for this War & Peace length post, I just needed to rant. I'm sickened as well, and I will stock up on my own DIY supplies and devices and hunker down in my bunker. But that's all any of us will be able to do.

I have not read the entire document but after reading and skimming 200+ pages or so it seems the FDA indeed has deaf ears when it comes to our cause. Every point CASAA made has been violently rebutted or totally ignored. New rules were added. It does not feel like the document was written in the spirit of okay, maybe we can compromise on a few things.

It is worse than a DA overcharging a case to settle and plea out for lesser charges. It reads like extreme overkill. One poster said we have been bombed back to the stone age. I tend to agree. Keeping the faith is one thing. Reality is another. I am not giving up. None of should but this is a really bad day for vaping. Black Thursday.

 

[mudmanc4]

<snip> nicotine is so dangerous that individuals should be required to obtain a certification before being permitted to acquire and handle it.<snip>

In it's pure refined form it can kill a human in minutes. We however, as vapors, are handling mere fractions of such potency. So they are playing fact against reality.
And there are very strict regulations in place for such potencies as far as I understand it, if you were to somehow get pure nic delivered to your house, you would be welcomed by a large team of men, ready and willing to cart your tukkus off to federal jail.

Again, more wording games, none the less.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

This is a great post, and took some level of courage to make.... everybody (myself included) is venting right now.

I completely agree with your middle paragraph, and many that have been part of advocacy have proposed just that. In essence, promulgate TRUE regulation like what is done for food and drink. Prohibit the use of potentially inhalation hazards (e.g. diacetyl, AP). Ensure some level of cleanliness in the manufacture of eliquid. Hold manufacturers accountable that nicotine levels are accurate.

It is truly unfortunate that didn't happen.

I am in agreement too but I wouldn't personally go so far as to prohibit anything. I'd be all for and encourage mandatory labeling of whether an eliquid contains DA/AP, and let adults make their own mind up. I never want the government telling me what I can or cannot put in my body - we need less of that in America.

ETA if you're wondering, I myself do avoid those ingredients and vape unflavored more often than not...but this isn't about me.

 

[WharfRat1976]

About a year ago I went to a local vape shop, one of three owned by the same people. They were bragging about what a nice, clean facility they have for making e-juice. I asked them if they were aware of what the FDA has in store for them. They replied that they weren't worried in the least about that because their facility was so nice and clean that there would be no problem gaining FDA approval. I told them that they were mistaken and they should educate themselves, become very active and join forces with others in opposing the deeming or they might soon find themselves out of business. They looked at me like I was a raving lunatic.

Ya know BigDance, I think the mainline shops, mixing juice and making a killing now don't care at all. They make their hay while they can then shut it down and onto the next money maker. They have made their millions. They don't care. Next.

 

[Pamawoman]

So, how do I buy nicotine? I might be needing a couple of gallons.

 

[WharfRat1976]

SLOTH, we need a VIDEO after you have digested all of this. An epic Sloth video as to the new regs. From the mountain peaks

 

[Pamawoman]

What's the best way to store the eleafs I am going to buy so they last a LOONNGG time. Why why. Going to cry again. Just the thought of smoking a cig again is making me want to move.

 

[Endor]

So, how do I buy nicotine? I might be needing a couple of gallons.

You better do it quickly. I foresee a massive shortage of 100mg nic base, very soon.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

SLOTH, we need a VIDEO after you have digested all of this. An epic Sloth video as to the new regs. From the mountain peaks

Long time no chat, my friend. How are you?

It's been spinning around in my head brother. It'll probably happen.

 

[WharfRat1976]

So, how do I buy nicotine? I might be needing a couple of gallons.

Go buy some- Nudenicotine.com has a litre of 70/30, 100mgNic for $105.00.

 

[crxess]

Finally finished wading through the thick of this.

My eyes hurt
My head hurts
My wife is angry - at me
I am angry and Loud about it

Government has once again proven me right

They are single minded Idiots ~

I have no dog in this hunt, My .... is covered. Government can take what I have from my cold dead hands.
I still have Family and friends that rely on an open marketplace and that chaps my where this is concerned.

I will continue to lend my voice, Signature and Votes to those that need our support.
That I Promise you!

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

 

[Batbird]

Great posts and information! Should have listened to others in the ECF forums and stocked up more. I plan to stock up as funds allow for at least a couple of years. For me, I am at the point using low levels of Nic that I could quit, but still enjoy vaping. What I will never do is go back to ciggs. Big tobacco and big money at work again.

 

[WharfRat1976]

(Comment130) At least one comment suggested that to help address the dangers of
nicotine and its use in future tobacco products, manufacturers registering future products with
FDA should provide documents demonstrating the accuracy of stated nicotine levels and that the products are diacetyl and acetyl propionyl free.

 

[Pamawoman]

Go buy some- Nudenicotine.com has a litre of 70/30, 100mgNic for $105.00.

Thank you!

 

[Pamawoman]

Go buy some- Nudenicotine.com has a litre of 70/30, 100mgNic for $105.00.

They have everything I need!!!!!

 

[Bronze]

Write Dr. Ben Carson to vent your frustrations. If Trump wins Dr. Carson will probably be appointed to Health and Human Services where the FDA reports. Dr. Carson is a reasonable man and would see the benefits to vaping and likely would dilute the regulations. If Hillary wins, forget it. She'll etch the regs in stone because she knows what is best for you.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Here is the response to exploding Mods:

(Comment135) At least one comment noted that, although there have been fires due to
mishandling of e-cigarette batteries, cases of accidental poisoning, and concerns about
functionality, the"de facto regulations"that are in place,"namely brand equity, potential civil liability, and word-of-mouth"have been effective in helping the market evolve and controlling
behavior.

231
(Response) FDA disagrees.FDA’s adverse event reporting system has inherent limitations as a measure of the impact of e-cigarettes since ENDS are a newly deemed product and reporting adverse events associated with tobacco products(including e-cigarettes and other
ENDS) is voluntary.FDA remains concerned about adverse events associated with ENDS use,
including overheating and exploding batteries as reported in the news, and the vast evidence that accidental nicotine poisoning is increasing in the wake of growing e-cigarette use. Toward that end, elsewhere in this issue of the Federal Register, FDA has made available draft guidance,which when final will describe FDA's current thinking regarding some appropriate means of addressing the premarket authorization requirements for newly deemed ENDS products,including compliance with existing voluntary standards for ENDS batteries. In addition,concerns remain regarding quality control, which could impact the functionality of these products. FDA believes that the automatic statutory provisions that will apply to these products as a result of this deeming rule, in conjunction with additional authorities under the law that FDA can exercise after the effective date, will help address these concerns.