Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Alexander Mundy]

Someone asked about nic from sources other than tobacco and this thread grows so quick I can't find it to quote, but here is the deal. The fact our nic does come from tobacco is the only reason the FDA was stopped by the courts previously. If not from tobacco then it is a drug and regulated as a drug. That is what they attempted before when they flat out declared ecigs illegal and were seizing shipments. They got their azzes handed to them in court but only because the court said they were marketed as recreational and would fall under tobacco but the FDA hadn't any jurisdiction since they hadn't deemed them. This got their panties in a bunch so they have been figuring out how to bypass the lawsuit legally and ban them anyway. I bet there is at least one dartboard with a pic of an ecig or perhaps the word njoy pasted on it used by a high ranking FDA official or lawyer. Not the only reason I am sure, but revenge is one, if not the highest, motive for destruction of others in history.

 

[Katya]

I am very new to this hobby and understand the concerns for USA residents.

Please excuse me for not understanding. But if I live in Australia and simply import my nic liquid from China will this affect Australian residents?

I only started vaping a week ago and feel terrible for us all.

No. At least not directly.

 

[eLicky]

No. At least not directly.

Thank you.

I wish the best for us all regardless.

 

[Luisa]

CASAA: FDA Deeming Regulations: Release and Next Steps

Per CASAA:

"The most important thing you can do is to make a call, write, or send an email to your Representative and urge them to cosponsor and support HR 2058. If there is one thing that has to be done, this is it. Encourage your family members, friends, everyone who has supported your journey to participate."

Is this the Cole(Oklahoma) bill? Duncan Hunter has tried to get a bill passed,also. Ryan probably won"t allow a vote.

 

[Cgeckorun]

I'm not giving up on e-cigs I refuse to go back to smoking even if it's difficult I do hope someone will knock down these regulations

 

[Luisa]

So only the courts can stop them, right?

YES!

 

[jazon1]

Three years for enforcement but if you don't have your products submitted in two years along with your 1mil payment and they show up at your door....yer screwed.

know I have to wonder how long these company's will have to wait for approvals of there devices im sure big T will get approvals instantly while smaller company's will have to wait like a year putting the tobacco company's new products ahead of the pack and an edge in the market.

 

[Katya]

Is this the Cole(Oklahoma) bill? Duncan Hunter has tried to get a bill passed,also. Ryan probably won"t allow a vote.

Yes. CASAA is asking to ask our representatives to sponsor/support the original HR 2058 right now (the Cole bill). But there is also another bill, an amendment for the Appropriations bill (separate from HR2058), sponsored by Tom Cole (R-Oklahoma) and Sanford Bishop (D-Georgia).

 

[The Ocelot]

To be blunt, you're wrong. Congress has empowered the FDA to regulate "tobacco products." "Tobacco products" are defined as anything derived from the tobacco plant and anything that is a "component" of a tobacco product. The FDA has interpreted "component" to mean anything used to consume a tobacco product. All nicotine is derived from the tobacco plant. FDA regulations have the force and effect of law.

And the ATF would be the enforcers...

 

[nicnik]

HR 2052

HR 2058

 

[Katya]

HR 2058

Thanks! Sorry--I've been staring at the computer screen for hours now... I can't see straight anymore. I'll edit my post.

 

[nicnik]

Thanks! Sorry--I've been staring at the computer screen for hours now... I can't see straight anymore. I'll edit my post.

You got it right in the last sentence. Don't be lazy about refilling if you need to.

 

[bigdancehawk]

know I have to wonder how long these company's will have to wait for approvals of there devices im sure big T will get approvals instantly while smaller company's will have to wait like a year putting the tobacco company's new products ahead of the pack and an edge in the market.

You can bet that for at least a year or more, BT companies have had teams of lawyers working day and night to draw up applications to get their cig-alikes approved. Everybody else is behind the curve.

 

[The Ocelot]

If I hear one more Official Claiming an Infant already Died From Drinking E-liquid, someone is going to get an EAR FULL of not nice!!!!
This was a Tragedy and should NOT be used in a For the Children Campaign.
1) It was Nicotine BASE - you know, the stuff one DILUTES to make E-Liquids.
2) The Top was left OFF the Container
3) 2 Supposedly Mature Adults were in the same Room, and sadly did NOT engage in SAFE Supervision of the Child.

May as well been a Bottle of Colorful pills

Talk about Political ABUSE...........

Consumer reports: Laundry detergent pods are a poison risk for children

"Last year, 11,714 reports of incidents involving kids aged 5 and younger and laundry detergent pods were reported to poison control centers nationwide. In the first six months of this year [2015], there were more than 6,000."

 

[Katya]

Everybody else is behind the curve.

Because they can't possibly afford to do so.

 

[phanner]

We all do understand that this has nothing to do with safety, right? The govt. or any of its three-letter agencies could give two ***** about your health or safety. TSA, EPA, FDA, etc. It's just a power grab/money/tax control. It's not just big tobacco. Regulation = taxation.

Just like everything else, they purposely overreach in the beginning so that everyone gets upset. They put all of these looming, ominous documents out proposing these ridiculous regulations. Then later they can 'compromise' and say, "Oh well, how about if we just do this little thing then?" and everyone instantly feels relief that they are getting screwed 'just a little'. They know from the beginning that they aren't going to get everything listed in the regulations. I've lived among this authoritarian BS long enough to know when I see it. Liberty and freedom? Get outta here!

And they will get away with it, while we all sit around and watch football and prime time TV. Haven't you all figured out how all of this works yet? LOL

This has all been looming for years, and it will likely be years more before the FDA lawyers can convince/payoff an upper judge to call liquids tobacco products. This one may end up going to The Supreme Court. Until then, I'm just goin' about my business.

exactly my feelings

 

[bigdancehawk]

And the ATF would be the enforcers...

I don't know how it would b

And the ATF would be the enforcers...

It's not clear to me who will enforce it. I don't know which enforcement agency has jurisdiction and I doubt it would be a priority for for any federal law enforcement agency.

 

[crxess]

Consumer reports: Laundry detergent pods are a poison risk for children

"Last year, 11,714 reports of incidents involving kids aged 5 and younger and laundry detergent pods were reported to poison control centers nationwide. In the first six months of this year [2015], there were more than 6,000."

And Tide fixed that with Cutesy commercials with Advertising and lightly veiled Safety warnings

Look at how other products are handled and see the picture.
Tide Pod - No real control - remember parents keep them out of reach
Lead Paint - restricted to commercial applicators - still marketable.
Cigarettes - Warning label on the side.................Just Die already Fools
Flavored Alcohol Commercials.......well, only Adults by Alcohol

Vapor Products - No real world reason for unjust Taxation, 95%-99% healthier than Smoking, reducing the Next Generation of Taxable Smokers,etc.
HOW DARE they, Crush that industry.

 

[Katya]

Wow! Do you think he would be pro vaping? If so...I may just join you.

I don't, but I do think he's willing to overturn almost anything this Administration imposed on us...

And he will appoint conservative judges to the SCOTUS and will sign Paul Ryan's budget bills.

 

[Jazzman]

Yes. CASAA is asking to ask our representatives to sponsor/support the original HR 2058 right now (the Cole bill). But there is also another bill, an amendment for the Appropriations bill (separate from HR2058), sponsored by Tom Cole (R-Oklahoma) and Sanford Bishop (D-Georgia).

I think this is the first battle of he war we need to fight. With allies.

I think that we now have a very powerful organization allied with us, by default, in the premium cigar industry. They have been interviewing some very influential law firms over the last 3 months to represent them in regards to this deeming and are ready to mount a substantial legal challenge. If you check out popular cigar sites you will see they have a strategy, the political influence, and the financial backing to bring a sustained and significant battle to the FDA. They also knew that a real challenge to the proposed regs couldn't happen until they were the final regs. Which is now. And they have been preparing for this for some time. Cigar aficionados are every bit as upset and motivated to fight this as we are, but I think they have better organization and certainly have more money than we do to fight this. We need allies like this. Troll some of their forums and you will feel right at home. All the same outrage and frustration, without the same propensity to lay down and die that I see from some here.

It appears their first action will be to support the change of the predicate date, through HR 2058 from 2/2007 to 8/2016. If they can successfully influence Congress to bring about this change vapers will be beneficiaries of that change. While that is only a small part of the war, that would be a very positive step. The premium cigar coalition is a powerful group of people and businesses and it might be wise to support some of their efforts in areas that closely align with our goals. Since the FDA seems to have written the deeming regs to be all inclusive of vapers, cigar smokers, pipe tobacco smokers, and hookah umm, what's the word? Hookers??, in much of the language, I think it would be smart to use this advantage. I really don't think it would be easy for the FDA to rewrite the language of the deeming regs to separate us all at this late date. These are huge allies to help with a significant first battle with the FDA. I can't imagine Sen. Fatpockets from Rich Suburb, USA going along with being told he can no longer have his treasured Cohiba cigars because the manufacturers can't afford the $800,000.00 it will cost to gain regulatory approval from the FDA for that cigar. If they even can get FDA approval. The cigar industry has even more small family based premium cigar businesses than vapers have. This is a devastating issue for them as well. And oddly enough, this doesn't effect mass produced, machine made cheap cigars (mostly owned by BT), just the true premium cigars made by hand by craftsmen (and women) that have been doing this for generations. Literally 10s of thousands of jobs stand to be lost in Central America, South America, and Jamaica. The economic effects of these regs extend far beyond our borders.

We need to work with these folks and see if we can all make a difference together.