Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[skoony]

Certainly there is no way that the FDA can consider flavorings to be tobacco products. Since it is considered a food product, I'm sure that they regulate it, but under food safety terms.

If you are vaping it and it's not illegal it's a tobacco product.
I am willing to bet that if I or someone else discovered doing
breathing exercises through a straw from McDonald's enabled
one to quit smoking and or vaping guess what would become
a tobacco product and whom would become a tobacco manufacturer?

Seriously from what we have seen, it could happen.

Mike

 

[AngiBe]

I wouldn't overthink storing juice if I was new to it. Even with argon, there are still plenty of oxygen molecules floating around in the juice itself. The jury is out on the effectiveness of argon. It probably helps of course but how much it extends shelf like is unknown. And the shelf life of simple storage seems to be quite long as it is.

With that being said, I have nic pushing 3 years old in my freezer. Every single bottle comes out as good as new. Zero degradation whatsoever. My storage process is simple. 120ml amber glass filled to a 1/4" of airspace, polyseal cap (most bottles come with these nowadays), and I wrap plumbers tape around the top. I also vacuum seal each bottle but that's probably overkill. I strongly believe that properly stored nic will go 10+ years in the freezer. It may lose strength over time but there are cheap and easy kits that tell you the strength. All you need to do is adjust your recipe. Nic doesn't "spoil". It just slowly oxidizes. Oxidized nic actually has a nice flavor on it's own. I vape a tank from time to time to reset my taste palate. I could probably vape it exclusively if I had to and still be satisfied.

For anyone who wants to do the easy math on how long a liter of 100mg nic would last, here it is:

100 x 1,000 = 100,000mgs of nictone

I only go through 3mls of 6mg/day or 18mgs per day

100,000/18 = 5,555 days or 15 years. lol. I liter of nic will last me 15 years. And it costs less than $100.

Nic will expand and contract a little bit. A well know guy in the DIY forum (Kurt) is a chemist. He has provided invaluable info on nic storage. One thing he warned against was one of his bottles overflowed a little bit when it came to room temp because it was filled close to the top and the room was warmer when he brought it out than when he filled it up to store. I've never had that happen.

Holy crap, you lost me in the second paragraph I'm so screwed, blued and tattooed. Some of us were just not meant to DIY. UGH

In my sick, twisted mind, this is how I view this...

BT pays Washington DC to come up with these regulations. It forces ex-smokers who became vapers to become ex-vapers who go back to being smokers. BT is knowingly and wantingly killing human beings so they can make money and their accomplices in Washington DC are complicit in every way for the same reason. In short, it is voluntary manslaughter for profit. There isn't anything that can happen to these killers that would be beneath what they deserve.

You are beyond 100% correct

 

[Bob Chill]

I should have added this to my previous post. 100mg nic is easy to handle with simple precautions. I wear rubber gloves and work over a high tech spill tray. By high tech I mean an aluminum sheet pan. I've never had a single spill or mishap of consequence. I've gotten some on my skin a few times. A quick walk to the sink with soap and water and your good. No ill effects whatsoever. I personally think working with small engines and gasoline is more dangerous than mixing nic on a table.

It's really no more difficult than making a mixed drink. Just use a juice calc or mix by weight. I prefer a calc. I always put the nic in first. I know how much should be in the bottle by sight. I've never had a single mistake in strength and even if I did that's still not a big deal. One vape of 60mg nic isn't going to kill me. And I'm going to know it right away. I look at it like taking 10 consecutive vapes of 6mg. I do that all the time because it's fun. lol

 

[AngiBe]

Can someone please post a link from here on DIY beginner basics? I'm searching but not seeing like a "starting from basics" this is the tools you need...(A,B,C or DIY for Dummies).

 

[Bronze]

FDA = Fascists Destroying America

 

[RobbyRocket]

I haven't posted on here for awhile, life and .... happened and vaping kind of fell off my radar, but I've tried it and loved it, just haven't taken the plunge and bought a device yet. I'm still smoking, and up to two packs a day. But I'm tired of it. I heard the FDA .... yesterday and wanted to post again it kind of snapped me to attention. I really want to stop smoking and take up vaping but now kind of afraid that the FDA is going to make things difficult like they always do ....ing something up. So should I take the plunge and buy a device and start to vape, or keep smoking like what is the timeline? I wouldn't want to buy a device and then not be able to find liquid for it. I was planning on getting a pen but now not sure what to do.

 

[WillyZee]

I'm not sure where I saw this, but Mitch Zeller was quoted stating that the RCP report does not apply to the United States due to skyrocketing youth e-cig usage (supposedly not seen in the UK).

While none of of us wish to see youths becoming nicotine dependent, this statement deserves very close scrutiny....

Certainly multiple studies have shown adolescents using vaping products, and this proportion has increased precisely as tobacco smoking goes down.

The CDC and FDA choose to state that, taken together, tobacco usage remains constant. However, the data sources are not equivalent - the question items used to analyse tobacco smoking ask specifically about daily usage, whereas the

Furthermore, a recent NIDA study shows that 60% of those adolescents are vaping zero nicotine liquids. These can only be considered tobacco products in a legalistic and tautological sense that the deeming regulation itself makes them so!

Accordingly, the real picture is likely to be that very few adolescents are daily-dependent users of vaping products who were previously tobacco-naive. At the same time, cigarette usage has (definitely) plummeted.

In other words, then, the likely story here is that far from being an entry into nicotine addiction, vaping products are associated with the greatest ever decline in youth smoking and that this relationship may well be causative.

The CDC/FDA (and the various health orgs) appear to refuse to countenance this possibility, even though it's a very real one, and very obvious to anyone with a modicum of critical thinking skills.

What's going on here?

Bumping this SJ ... a like is just not enough.

 

[jambi]

@Tucsonbroker The FDA has expanded or will soon expand its definition of
intended use to what the device is actually used for despite any labeling
to the contrary.
The scope of the definition covers everything the FDA regulates.
"The intended use of a product determines whether it meets the definition of a drug, device, or other regulated product under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) and thus may be regulated by FDA. "
FDA Proposes Amending the Definition of “Intended Use” | Inside Medical Devices
For a clearer understanding see the link below.
http://www.raps.org/Regulatory-Focu...ig-Impact-on-Intended-Uses-for-Devices-Drugs/
Regards
mike

If this is true, flavor companies will be looking at reformulating their extracts so they aren't suitable for vaping use.

 

[mostlyclassics]

But, but... The FDA can't make any laws. Only Congress. Am I wrong? And this administration is on its way out, anyway.

Katya, let me emphasize again that these are regulations and not laws.

Congress makes laws, which are subject to Constitutional strictures. But, nearly all the time, these laws create alphabet-soup agencies, like the FDA.

The alphabet-soup agencies then make regulations the purposes of which are to enable and enforce the laws.

Regulations are not subject to the same Constitutional strictures as laws, at least until the judiciary rules against them or Congress repeals some part of the legislation that created the agency which created the regulations.

Agency enforcement of its regulations, in many cases, does not adhere to the Constitution. Witness, for instance, the IRS, where you're guilty until you can prove you're innocent in any tax dispute. The IRS has had that power — and uses it — for going on a century now.

 

[markfm]

pbrusardo has videos about his visit to FlavorArt. They are the only company making flavoring safe for vaping.

I'm pretty content with the diacetyl free flavors from other sources.

 

[Bob Chill]

Can someone please post a link from here on DIY beginner basics? I'm searching but not seeing like a "starting from basics" this is the tools you need...(A,B,C or DIY for Dummies).

Here's Dannyv45's profile page.

dannyv45

Click blog entries. Everything you need to know to get started. He was my inspiration nearly 3 years ago. I'm no chemist. An average cook at best. DIY is so easy that once you get through the curve you'll probably shock yourself. I don't even experiment anymore. I mix for 4 people and have perfected about 6 recipes for everyone. That's all they need and want. I'm down to a 4 recipe rotation and haven't changed in over a year. Not everybody finds that sweet spot of course. But I haven't bought pre-mix in over 18 months. I didn't get into it to save money. I did it for complete control.

 

[RobbyRocket]

I predicted this kind of development in some of my firsts posts months ago, sadly was not surprised at all by yesterday's news. The same old nanny state nazis always playing the "could be harmful to kids" argument they used with cigarettes. The government has turned into a fascist, nazi nanny state policeman. They want everyone to be whitewashed, idealized, brainwashed sheep, remember the Nazis' campaigns and propaganda in the 30s about idealized, Nordic pictures of "health"? Not all that different now. Just remember, all this was pretty much a given from when the legislation was passed and signed in 2009, giving the FDA this authority. So it was only a matter of time. Predictable. Hopefully the FDA's decision can be successfully challenged. Just a faint hope.

 

[officer196]

Overturn the FDA's ruling on ecigarette classification as a tobacco product. | We the People: Your Voice in Our Government

Up to 40000 in a day. Keep it going around.

 

[officer196]

Overturn the FDA's ruling on ecigarette classification as a tobacco product. | We the People: Your Voice in Our Government

Up to 40000 keep it going

 

[Robino1]

I'm not sure where I saw this, but Mitch Zeller was quoted stating that the RCP report does not apply to the United States due to skyrocketing youth e-cig usage (supposedly not seen in the UK).

While none of of us wish to see youths becoming nicotine dependent, this statement deserves very close scrutiny....

Certainly multiple studies have shown adolescents using vaping products, and this proportion has increased precisely as tobacco smoking goes down.

The CDC and FDA choose to state that, taken together, tobacco usage remains constant. However, the data sources are not equivalent - the question items used to analyse tobacco smoking ask specifically about daily usage, whereas the

Furthermore, a recent NIDA study shows that 60% of those adolescents are vaping zero nicotine liquids. These can only be considered tobacco products in a legalistic and tautological sense that the deeming regulation itself makes them so!

Accordingly, the real picture is likely to be that very few adolescents are daily-dependent users of vaping products who were previously tobacco-naive. At the same time, cigarette usage has (definitely) plummeted.

In other words, then, the likely story here is that far from being an entry into nicotine addiction, vaping products are associated with the greatest ever decline in youth smoking and that this relationship may well be causative.

The CDC/FDA (and the various health orgs) appear to refuse to countenance this possibility, even though it's a very real one, and very obvious to anyone with a modicum of critical thinking skills.

What's going on here?

Lying for their own agenda. Plain and simple.

I haven't posted on here for awhile, life and .... happened and vaping kind of fell off my radar, but I've tried it and loved it, just haven't taken the plunge and bought a device yet. I'm still smoking, and up to two packs a day. But I'm tired of it. I heard the FDA .... yesterday and wanted to post again it kind of snapped me to attention. I really want to stop smoking and take up vaping but now kind of afraid that the FDA is going to make things difficult like they always do ....ing something up. So should I take the plunge and buy a device and start to vape, or keep smoking like what is the timeline? I wouldn't want to buy a device and then not be able to find liquid for it. I was planning on getting a pen but now not sure what to do.

It looks like we have 2 years possibly? You have time if you start now. No new products (mods, tanks etc... ) after 90 days.

Find devices that you can fix yourself or things that have a track record for being long lasting. Learn to make coils and buy the things that you need to do so. Watch youtube videos to bring yourself up to speed.



As for storage of nicotine and getting the bottle ready for long term freezer storage, there are companies out there that sell the product ready to pop in the freezer for long term. I have a couple of those already. I take them out of the box and leave them in their bubble wrapped up state and put them in the freezer.

 

[chanelvaps]

The opinion of a Texan

In the words of Robert Stephenson Smythe Baden Powell: "expect the best, but be prepared for the worst.

For the last two years I have been collecting materials and knowledge to make myself independant in terms of vaping, i could easily go 5 years or more without making any vape purchases. It would be a bit boring, but i would get through.

That having been said, it is my opinion, based on a lifetime of observing yankee nanny state politicians who just want to save us from ourselves, that with the developments in forward thinking coming out of England lately, all this will blow over soon and we will be back to normal.
Dont get me wrong, dont stop fighting, dont stop protesting, dont stop calling your representatives, just dont panic, and BE PREPARED.

Sent from a dark, twisted corner of the back porch, covered in cobwebs and slightly damp.

Yankee speaking up to agree with you here. I think we have only just begun. They threw the first ball and now the game is on. This is such an unfamiliar market that nobody really knows how to control it. This will change many many times in the next two years but YES be prepared. They cannot stop you from making DIY

 

[rwoodin]

There are 78 seperate instances of "FDA disagrees" in the 499 page deeming regulation document.

 

[chanelvaps]

Up to 40000 keep it going

CASAA says this petition is not going to do anything. Please write to your attorney general and state representative

 

[chanelvaps]

Can someone please post a link from here on DIY beginner basics? I'm searching but not seeing like a "starting from basics" this is the tools you need...(A,B,C or DIY for Dummies).

If you read the TFA thread all the way through, I did, and feel I know enough to have produced a few things

 

[dannyv45]

It is about to hit the fan and I for one am still fighting. If you haven't signed this petition yet U.S. Senate, U.S. House of Representatives, President of the United States: Reject the FDA's Deeming of Vapor Products as Tobacco Products , Please do. It is getting very close to time for it to be sent to those that could do something about this. It will surprise me if they even read it but it is one more outlet for our anger and if we do nothing, they win by default.

I just signed the petition and here was my comment.

I've been vaping for 3 years after smoking cigarettes for 40 years. If I can't vape I'll start smoking again. It will be your fault when I go to an early grave because you took my right away to vape and caused me to start smoking again. Do not let the FDA regulate vaping.