Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[AngiBe]

Start here:

What you need to know as as far as supplies and safety for the first time juicer. | E-Cigarette Forum

Thank you! I have printed it off and going to start studying this weekend!

 

[buffaloguy]

He just wants to tax everyone and everything out of existence. Other than that he's fine.

Im sorry but I am a republican and this statement about Sanders is flat out false. People would actually save money under his ideas. Thousands of dollars a year even for a family of three.

 

[xklipx]

I hate to say it but this is a GREAT example for the yutes of today to understand that our government has gotten WAY to big. More regulation = less freedom.

 

[drysprocket]

Yet the person who has been suggested as his running mate, Elizabeth Warren, is one of the Senators who wrote letters to the FDA/OMB to quickly finalize the Deeming:

Senators Press OMB to Quickly Review Rule Finally Regulating E-Cigarettes and Other Unregulated Tobacco Products | U.S. Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois

Yet we have a congressman, Duncan Hunter Jr. who was vaping in congress and is the biggest proponent of vaping we have in office, yet evidently because of his party or views, he's a "giant d-bag" to some here:

Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

When some people have said 'we are our own worst enemies' - this is a prime example of that.

Just to be clear, since I referred to him as the giant d-bag...that has zero to do with his politics, and everything to do with his swagger. I stand by my gif of him, which continues to make me laugh out loud. Just calling em how I see's em

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--K7zbTpFd--/pq0debyq2luv01cv50pu.gif

 

[salemgold]

I'm glad you posted the link! I learned all my nic storage stuff from Kurt and Dannyv45's blogs made my transition to DIY simple.

I can't find the post but I think Kurt has nic that is 6+ years old now and he said it barely oxidized or lost strength. Someone correctly me if I'm wrong but that's what I remember. My nearly 3 year old nic is perfect. 10 years in the deep freeze seems quite possible.

Last word in this thread on DIY. Promise! I also have some in freezer close to 6 years old. No issues at all.

This kind of does relate to the regs though IMHO Not totally off topic.

 

[Empress Kitty]

I dont see any wiggle room on page 222. They will evaluate on a case by case but in the meantime, they fall under the Final Rule.

This is from page 222 of the Final Rule:

FDA is aware that, although some ENDS and e-liquids are marketed as nicotine free, as stated in section VIII.D, studies have found that certain types of ENDS do not have consistent quality and the labels may not accurately reflect the amount of nicotine in the e-liquid.The World Health Organization (WHO) also has noted that the level of nicotine delivered in currently marketed ENDS varies widely depending on product characteristics, user puffing behavior and nicotine solution concentration, leaving smokers unaware of the nicotine levels they are receiving (Ref.163).

In addition, FDA agrees that many factors influence the delivery of nicotine. For example, an experienced ENDS user may be exposed to amounts of nicotine similar to those delivered by cigarette smoking (Ref.114). Also, as stated earlier, nicotine-free-eliquid that is intended or reasonably expected to be used with or for the human consumption of tobacco products in most cases would be a component or part of a tobacco product and,therefore, within the scope of this rule. These products will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

It boggles my mind that a mod/ENDS would be considered a tobacco product. It is NOT. A mod/ENDS + nic free ejuice is as far from tobacco as possible.

This crap pisses me off...

 

[DC2]

The last time I looked at flavorings, the only one that seemed to be specifically targeting "vape-safe" flavorings was FlavourArt. The others all seemed to keep vaping use at arms-length.

Certainly there is no way that the FDA can consider flavorings to be tobacco products. Since it is considered a food product, I'm sure that they regulate it, but under food safety terms.

I can easily imagine that saying "diacetyl-free" would be intended use.
Boom! Tobacco product, no soup for you.

 

[sc12]

FDA = Fascists Destroying America

I used different words (something Dumb something) but yours are good too.

 

[wiredlove]

Here's a Tip.

Don't thaw your e-Liquids at Room Temperature. Thaw it in the Refrigerator.

Yeah, I don't do that either after the girlfriend tried to use it as syrup and the feds reclassified pancakes, butter and the girlfriend as tobacco products. (I'm kidding) Glass breaks, it happens, in my only case, I believe it was a defect.

 

[mpols]

My doctor has been on board with my vaping since 2010 when I started. I explained the concept to him and he was amazed. He checked into vaping and subsequently put pamphlets in his office urging his patients to consider vaping as a way to quit tobacco cigarettes.

He's also impressed that my recent lung Xray shows a normal, clear and clean result after vaping for 6 years. I smoked for over 40 years. Apparently, vaping has allowed my lungs to rid themselves of the tar and residue deposited by smoking all those years.

Is there any way that you can get copies of before and after lung x-rays? That would be a great visual education tool on the benefits of vaping over smoking.

Please correct me if I am wrong but, doesn't a 95% decrease in a known cause of
harm reduce morbidity (the onset of disease) 95% ? The mortality (causing actual death)
rate should be significantly lower due to the fact the the damage caused is lessened
to the point where either the body heals itself naturally or there is not enough damage
to result in actual death. Of course complications may arise from time to time but,
generally is this not true?

Regards
mike

I thought 95% would be simpler to understand. The CDC says that smoking shortens a person's life by 10 years. So vaping gives them back 9.5. We aren't even talking about quality of life.

The Royal College of Physician's report says that at most, vaping will cause 5% of the long term health problems than cigarettes. They believe that it will be more like 2-3%. It's simpler to just say 95%. Let people do research and realize that it a conservative estimate. Again, smoking kills 480,000 people every year in the U.S. 42,000 are from second hand smoke. How'd you like to save 456,000 people next year?

The vast majority of the public are anti-smoking. They are ignorant of the benefits of vaping. If the Cole amendment fails, and any litigation fails, we have 2 years to change public opinion. Doctors, healthcare workers, legislators, bureaucrats, and reporters should be the first that we try to educate. But every mother, father, brother, sister needs to to be introduced to the concept of harm reduction. Telling your stories and getting your medical histories will be very important.

X-rays, blood tests, prescription reductions. These are things the public needs to know about.

 

[Kent C]

Just to be clear, since I referred to him as the giant d-bag...that has zero to do with his politics, and everything to do with his swagger. I stand by my gif of him, which continues to make me laugh out loud.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--K7zbTpFd--/pq0debyq2luv01cv50pu.gif

Oh, his 'swagger' He has something to swagger about:

Hunter was born in San Diego and graduated from Granite Hills High School in El Cajon. He earned a degree in Business Administration from San Diego State University and then worked as an information technology business analyst. Hunter resigned the day after the September 11 attacks and joined the United States Marine Corps. He attended Officer Candidates School at Marine Corps Base Quantico and after graduation, he was commissioned as a second lieutenant. He subsequently served as a field artillery officer in the 1st Marine Division after the 2003 invasion of Iraq and completed a second tour in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004. During his second tour, he participated in Operation Vigilant Resolve. In September 2005, Hunter was honorably discharged from active duty but remained in the Marine Corps Reserve. He then started a residential development company. In 2007, he was recalled to active duty and deployed to Afghanistan in support of the War in Afghanistan. Hunter was honorably discharged from active duty again in December 2007, but continues to serve in the Marine Corps Reserve.

"Just calling em how I see's em "

Me too....

 

[HBcorpse]

I'm lurking this thread, but with tens of dozens of new pages each time I log in, it's hard to follow.

Can anyone tell me if there has been deeming set forth for online sales?

Please PM me.

I'm sure we will get a breakdown soon enough, but I'm just curious as to how far this will go...
If online sales are banned, we will likely go back to a paper catalog mail-order system, which cannot be banned.

 

[xklipx]

Ok, I think enough Trump and Clinton have been mentioned to allow me to throw out this:

Gary Johnson or Austin Peterson whichever wins the LP nomination would be strong allies.

And before someone says it, the pragmatic side of me agrees it won't happen in one cycle.
But what you are going to say is a self fulfilling prophecy unless we start to take government back.

The fact Gary Johnson hasn't been mentioned should tell you all you need to know about his political influence.

 

[DC2]

In my sick, twisted mind, this is how I view this...

BT pays Washington DC to come up with these regulations. It forces ex-smokers who became vapers to become ex-vapers who go back to being smokers. BT is knowingly and wantingly killing human beings so they can make money and their accomplices in Washington DC are complicit in every way for the same reason. In short, it is voluntary manslaughter for profit. There isn't anything that can happen to these killers that would be beneath what they deserve.

In my sick, twisted mind, this is how it probably went down...

Big Pharma said stop those damn electronic cigarettes. They enlisted their minions (ALA, CTFK, AHA, ACS, ALF, etc.) to pester the FDA and start a movement to demonize electronic cigarettes. After a few years Big Government started noticing they were losing money. Everyone sat down to figure out what they were gonna do. Big Tobacco was invited to the table, and told that the plan was to destroy the effective products, and hand the crumbs that were left over to them.

The result is what you see now.
Big Tobacco will offer closed-system tamper-proof useless cigalikes.

The end.

 

[bigdancehawk]

What the FDA's actions really mean is that FINALLY the vaping industry can begin litigation.
Now we just have to wait & see if the vaping industry will step up to the plate. (or will the vaping industry just sit back to see if someone else will)

This raises an interesting question from a legal point of view. Ordinarily, in order to challenge the actions of an administrative agency with a lawsuit, one must first exhaust all administrative remedies. In addition, the plaintiff must show actual, direct harm. No applications have even been filed yet, much less turned down. So it's questionable whether these regulations are ripe for judicial review or whether any prospective plaintiffs now have standing to sue. I'm not predicting how this will play out, just saying we may not see much if any litigation anytime soon.

 

[Kent C]

Last word in this thread on DIY. Promise! I also have some in freezer close to 6 years old. No issues at all.

This kind of does relate to the regs though IMHO Not totally off topic.

I have some for going on 4 years and no issues either. Kurt has said he tests his for nic level and has reported no decrease after 5 years - which is probably 6 or 7 years now

 

[classwife]

Is there any way that you can get copies of before and after lung x-rays? That would be a great visual education tool on the benefits of vaping over smoking.



I thought 95% would be simpler to understand. The CDC says that smoking shortens a person's life by 10 years. So vaping gives them back 9.5. We aren't even talking about quality of life.

The Royal College of Physician's report says that at most, vaping will cause 5% of the long term health problems than cigarettes. They believe that it will be more like 2-3%. It's simpler to just say 95%. Let people do research and realize that it a conservative estimate. Again, smoking kills 480,000 people every year in the U.S. 42,000 are from second hand smoke. How'd you like to save 456,000 people next year?

The vast majority of the public are anti-smoking. They are ignorant of the benefits of vaping. If the Cole amendment fails, and any litigation fails, we have 2 years to change public opinion. Doctors, healthcare workers, legislators, bureaucrats, and reporters should be the first that we try to educate. But every mother, father, brother, sister needs to to be introduced to the concept of harm reduction. Telling your stories and getting your medical histories will be very important.

X-rays, blood tests, prescription reductions. These are things the public needs to know about.

 

[buffaloguy]

Last word in this thread on DIY. Promise! I also have some in freezer close to 6 years old. No issues at all.

This kind of does relate to the regs though IMHO Not totally off topic.

I also have nic in the freezer since Feb 2012. No change. Still perfect. As a long time Diy'er ECF has all you need to learn. Best advice read ALL the stickies posted in the DIY forum. They will save you months worth of education. Two weeks into vaping in Feb 2012 I started DIY. Only bought maybe 20 bottles of pre made juice since then for kicks.

Btw, to my knowledge Wizard Labs is certified by the FDA. Id be interested to hear how John, the owner, will be handling these regulations. Maybe one of the mods can get him to chime in here.

 

[Spazmelda]

I haven't posted on here for awhile, life and .... happened and vaping kind of fell off my radar, but I've tried it and loved it, just haven't taken the plunge and bought a device yet. I'm still smoking, and up to two packs a day. But I'm tired of it. I heard the FDA .... yesterday and wanted to post again it kind of snapped me to attention. I really want to stop smoking and take up vaping but now kind of afraid that the FDA is going to make things difficult like they always do ....ing something up. So should I take the plunge and buy a device and start to vape, or keep smoking like what is the timeline? I wouldn't want to buy a device and then not be able to find liquid for it. I was planning on getting a pen but now not sure what to do.

I'm sure others have answered, but I just now got to your post. Yes, please please do go ahead. It does look like we have two years for sure and so much can happen between now and then. If you haven't tried this out yet, this is the best time to start so that you are up to speed and can fend for yourself when the regulations do go into effect.

 

[LoveVanilla]

Last word in this thread on DIY. Promise! I also have some in freezer close to 6 years old. No issues at all.

This kind of does relate to the regs though IMHO Not totally off topic.

No, no! Last word, really...

I have strong opinions on safe storage of nicotine. Here is a low cost and effective approach to store a litter for under $20. Tested -- and strongly recommended for anyone with children or elders