They're probably a mystery to him because he's made no effort at all to learn anything substantive regarding the subject of his rant. Typical politician.He's such a loser. Mystery chemicals.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Well, I'm certain his motives for controlling people started out altruistic 
, no I don't think that, the best control freaks are born, not made.
Anna
, no I don't think that, the best control freaks are born, not made. Anna
Cryin' Chuck wants people feeding from his hand. He gets off on it.Well, I'm certain his motives for controlling people started out altruistic
Anna
Happy to see you back commenting.
I agree that many of the proponents of regulation enjoy the power over others that the ability to regulate gives them. The revenue coming from regulation is a side issue, when required they will print all of the money they need. All one needs to do is look at the national debt to realize that Congress does not give a fig about either income or expense.
Parenthetically the sate governments may be somewhat different in that they can't print money, they can only confiscate it. But there resides in state governments the same kind of people who enjoy the power of compulsion or prohibition.
But that's what motivates virtually every politician. They're not interested in balancing a budget, just fund raising and reelection. In between elections they spend their time looking like they're tough on "x" topic. Helps them out next election cycle.
The only difference between your city council member and US senator is scale. Those motivated to do something productive for their constituents or what is best for the country are far and few between.
Or Moreso than the Feds, actually. Tucson was turning blue right as I arrived, and there have been instances of corruption in this state that literally boggle my mind.
Feds: Steal your money
State: Makes your cashless existence uncomfortable and extreme, and worst case, will lock you up then charge you for the privilege. (That still never made sense to me, this is one place where I think one can genuinely state that prisoner's are still alienated from their labor) and if you think governments aren't still testing "new" drugs on people without their consent? Why, rhetorically, do I ask, when I was offered a job at the State Prison (I smuggled in a vape during the interview, which just kinda tells you it's not a good environment for me, LOL) my main function would have been running around "testing" folks for a list of their "sx" and then confirming lack of suicidality and homicidality. While the rabbet warren tunnels and terrifying cells were kind of interesting, the whole time I was staring at these poor prisoners, going, "What are they feeding them?"
Fortunately, I am way too sympathetic to prisoners, not politicians to have done it. The only thing it really gave me was a bird's eye view into what my kiddo's life will be like if this second hearing goes tragically, which I most emphatically hope does not happen but my head swelling has decreased significantly today, maybe the Augmentin is actually doing something, I hope so! So, good news and bad news, LOL.
Anna
Feds: Steal your money
State: Makes your cashless existence uncomfortable and extreme, and worst case, will lock you up then charge you for the privilege. (That still never made sense to me, this is one place where I think one can genuinely state that prisoner's are still alienated from their labor) and if you think governments aren't still testing "new" drugs on people without their consent? Why, rhetorically, do I ask, when I was offered a job at the State Prison (I smuggled in a vape during the interview, which just kinda tells you it's not a good environment for me, LOL) my main function would have been running around "testing" folks for a list of their "sx" and then confirming lack of suicidality and homicidality. While the rabbet warren tunnels and terrifying cells were kind of interesting, the whole time I was staring at these poor prisoners, going, "What are they feeding them?"
Fortunately, I am way too sympathetic to prisoners, not politicians to have done it. The only thing it really gave me was a bird's eye view into what my kiddo's life will be like if this second hearing goes tragically, which I most emphatically hope does not happen but my head swelling has decreased significantly today, maybe the Augmentin is actually doing something, I hope so! So, good news and bad news, LOL.
Anna
Exactly right. And the best way to gain power is to make the people more dependent on them. Sad.
You know, I don't think it is the best way. I think independent, happy and educated folks just make the best citizens, and just because it's been this way, well, lately, that doesn't mean it has ALWAYS been the case.
If only FDR were still alive. Kilt the great depression, paid people money and created jobs by doing neat stuff, and created the biggest-- and ONLY-- social welfare program the gov't has ever known, which has a 1% operating cost! 1% for SSI administration and disbursement, that's pretty incredible. If only the (later) government hadn't stolen from the trust, it would still be the best, and only decent government program ever existent that didn't steal funds, based it on a regressive but still somewhat reasonable taxation system, and the elderly weren't starving in the streets.
I wish FDR were here right now, along with a few of the founders and things would get straightened right out. It still amazes me that the principles the Constitution have held up so well through all this modern society stuff. If we could just get rid of the corruption.... Sigh.
IDK, we seem to be in a bit of an authoritarian phase at the moment, with dictators spreading across the globe, and I know it happens, there's a huge world war, and it passes, but I didn't really want to live through one, honestly. The Cold War was great-- kept everyone busy and occupied and whatnot, without actually starting a war. It's sort of unfortunate that no one is really worried about that these days--- Total Global CATASTROPHE is not necessarily a huge ways off, but I'm feeling some doom and gloom about it all, because we do have conditions (across the globe) Just Like we did in the Industrial Revolution--- concentrated wealth, increasingly abusive working conditions, the vast majority of middle income USA actually POOR by yester year's standards, it's just not all shaping up very nicely to be frank.
And CHUCK S. has way more to worry about than saving the children from vaping, but I'm quite certain if he feels it necessary he will be drafting those same children into the military.... Sigh.
Anna
If only FDR were still alive. Kilt the great depression, paid people money and created jobs by doing neat stuff, and created the biggest-- and ONLY-- social welfare program the gov't has ever known, which has a 1% operating cost! 1% for SSI administration and disbursement, that's pretty incredible. If only the (later) government hadn't stolen from the trust, it would still be the best, and only decent government program ever existent that didn't steal funds, based it on a regressive but still somewhat reasonable taxation system, and the elderly weren't starving in the streets.
I wish FDR were here right now, along with a few of the founders and things would get straightened right out. It still amazes me that the principles the Constitution have held up so well through all this modern society stuff. If we could just get rid of the corruption.... Sigh.
IDK, we seem to be in a bit of an authoritarian phase at the moment, with dictators spreading across the globe, and I know it happens, there's a huge world war, and it passes, but I didn't really want to live through one, honestly. The Cold War was great-- kept everyone busy and occupied and whatnot, without actually starting a war. It's sort of unfortunate that no one is really worried about that these days--- Total Global CATASTROPHE is not necessarily a huge ways off, but I'm feeling some doom and gloom about it all, because we do have conditions (across the globe) Just Like we did in the Industrial Revolution--- concentrated wealth, increasingly abusive working conditions, the vast majority of middle income USA actually POOR by yester year's standards, it's just not all shaping up very nicely to be frank.
And CHUCK S. has way more to worry about than saving the children from vaping, but I'm quite certain if he feels it necessary he will be drafting those same children into the military.... Sigh.
Anna
wasn't going to post this here, but what the heck:Is Trump’s FDA Still Beholden To Democrats?
An OP ed from The Daily Vaper
I don't trust them, I don't like them...they are all cut from the same cloth.
An OP ed from The Daily Vaper
I don't trust them, I don't like them...they are all cut from the same cloth.
And quickly get left behind by their party.
Which is exactly where and why the system is totally broken.
And it's exactly why only an outsider can make changes.
And it's exactly why that outsider has to be financially independent.
It's why I voted for Ross Perot.
Is there a mod in the house? How can I hit all three buttons?
Good luck.
Good luck.
Sometimes I would love that ability!Is there a mod in the house? How can I hit all three buttons?
Good luck.
I try not to be so pro-vape, that I become anti-smoker...
If someone wants to smoke the equivalent of a pack in one sitting, that's their choice, as it should be. Also, it's about the same as smoking a cigar, you're not inhaling the whole thing, it's sitting there burning the whole time, and usually there are a few people smoking from the same hookah. It's also not like most people are there all day every day.
I've also never seen a child at a hookah bar, except for mine, but it wasn't a bar it was a restaurant with a patio section that had them, and she definitely wasn't smoking(we were inside).
If someone wants to smoke the equivalent of a pack in one sitting, that's their choice, as it should be. Also, it's about the same as smoking a cigar, you're not inhaling the whole thing, it's sitting there burning the whole time, and usually there are a few people smoking from the same hookah. It's also not like most people are there all day every day.
I've also never seen a child at a hookah bar, except for mine, but it wasn't a bar it was a restaurant with a patio section that had them, and she definitely wasn't smoking(we were inside).
I'm not ex-smoking, (of anything tobacco related) except hookahs. I don't know why but I've loathed them from the very first time I tried one. I guess it's fair to say, however, that hookah lovers should be able to indulge to their satisfaction.
I do hear a lot of talk about how hookah is "so safe because of the nicotine levels" and I'm not sure I believe that, and most of the harm from smoking has nothing to do with nicotine. I just-- If I wanted to inhale perfume? Well, I did once taste my mom's perfume when she was going out on a date with my dad, and it tasted exactly like a hookah. It's just not for me, but I suppose it's no worse smelling or tasting to the rest of the world than three PPD, for sure.
Anna
I do hear a lot of talk about how hookah is "so safe because of the nicotine levels" and I'm not sure I believe that, and most of the harm from smoking has nothing to do with nicotine. I just-- If I wanted to inhale perfume? Well, I did once taste my mom's perfume when she was going out on a date with my dad, and it tasted exactly like a hookah. It's just not for me, but I suppose it's no worse smelling or tasting to the rest of the world than three PPD, for sure.
Anna
Has everyone seen this discussion at John Hopkins University about 'Nicotine Regulation'? (Occurred yesterday, Thursday October 19, 2017 at 12:44 pm)
Yes, they have stopped calling it tobacco regulation perse, and are now calling it Nicotine regulation. I recommend everyone sit and see the whole thing, speaking begins after 17 minutes of nothing, so be aware of that.
Gottlieb speaks first, gives a speech.
A couple things here: he agrees that e cigarettes are a gateway drug to smoking for teens and young adults, from what I gathered.
Also, they are calling all smokers drug addicts and grouping smokers in with opiod addicts, basically. My husband took umbrage with being called a drug addict because he smokes cigarettes. (he dual uses, as I am sure everyone knows as I have mentioned it before)
Anyway, one big point in the speech does concern tobacco users and cigarette smokers, as the FDA wants to greatly reduce nicotine levels in cigarettes and somehow make them non addictive, and are trying to figure out how to do that without opening up a huge black market. (My husband literally laughed at the thought and is now planning on planting his very own tobacco patch.. lol)
So, all the other points were pretty much heard before from Gottlieb, but feel free to hear them again concerning deeming and all the main talking points about e cigarettes.
That said, now on to the 36 minute point concerning teens and vaping, there is a HUGE ad campaign going out demonizing vaping, put out BY the FDA, beginning next week on all venues where teens go, such as YouTube etc etc.
Feel free to see the ad campaign beginning at the 36 minute mark, and hit a couple minutes earlier than that to hear Gotteib speak on why they are putting out the ad campaign. It is very much anti vaping, anti nicotine in general.
Fun Fun.
Now, onto the panel of speakers, a couple anti tobacco people, Zeller, and a Professor Ken Warner from the University of Michigan (Lifelong anti tobacco personality).
Some points made, one, that it is combustible forms of nicotine delivery which is what is deadly. Everyone agrees on this point.
Speaking on the correlation between the rise of e cigarette use in teens and young adults and the lower levels of use of combustible cigarette use in teens and young adults - FDA believes the correlation is true. less cigarette use is equaling rise in e cigarette use, hence anti vaping ad campaign. Everyone happy.
Trying to keep another generation from ever trying any form of nicotine delivery.
Couple big points made. Zeller:
1) They are trying to determine what additional rules they want to pack into the deeming regulations.
2) They are not addressing nicotine levels in non-combustible delivery systems by design. (might speak to those additional rules they are thinking of piling on - don't know, FDA wont say)
3) FDA is planning on making certain that the final rules cannot be litigated, and if they are, that they cannot be won.
Zeller kept talking about the "Rules of the Road" concerning regulation, to which my husband said, "the rules of the road are "Stay the hell out of my tobacco patch" ." (Just thought that was funny..)
They are saying the final rulings on flavors still have to be determined because its a dual issue, one of teen use and one of flavored e cigarettes being helpful to people getting off combustible tobacco. But lots of talk about flavors.
Concerning nicotine levels, congress has said the FDA cannot take nicotine levels down to zero, but the FDA can regulate nicotine other than that, and determine any level they choose. Everyone happy about that.
Concern about long term use of HNB delivery systems.. some talk there. Spoke also that society may have to accept and discuss the fact that some people will need to use alternative nicotine delivery systems for life..
Hoping for a full switch from combustible tobacco to alternative nicotine delivery systems in the future, and a combustible tobacco free society in the future of the US.
BIG point made at the 1 hour and 40 minute mark, about how having a concentrated amount of large companies instead of many small companies is a good thing because it lowers competition in the marketplace and keeps prices artificially high - which makes them think it keeps use lower. The bad they see in that is the lobbying power of the larger companies because of their concentrated wealth. Hoping for a happy medium there I guess to avoid lobbying power?
Ken Warner said the hobbyist market in e cigarette community would be more difficult to sustain in a concentrated market, but from my understanding he sees that as a good thing? Not sure there if I was understanding him correctly on that point, but he did say he didn't know where that was headed (ie: the hobbyist market)
They mentioned on cigarettes that if all they end up with is another light cigarette then the regulations will have failed. Said Cornerstone of the regulations was pre market review of any claims, cant comply with regulations = cant sell products. Then spoke on enforcement of regulations etc. etc.
Ken Warner did mention the next couple years will determine e cigarette use among teens, says we need more data over next couple years and it might not be as bad as we think.
Okay, so that is some of what the video is about. Please watch the whole thing for your own take on it, I just hit a couple points here to explain whats on the video for those who cannot watch right now.
And I am off here to purchase more nicotine for my and my families future, and my husband is going to plant a bunch of tobacco. I hope all of you have a nice day.
Yes, they have stopped calling it tobacco regulation perse, and are now calling it Nicotine regulation. I recommend everyone sit and see the whole thing, speaking begins after 17 minutes of nothing, so be aware of that.
Gottlieb speaks first, gives a speech.
A couple things here: he agrees that e cigarettes are a gateway drug to smoking for teens and young adults, from what I gathered.
Also, they are calling all smokers drug addicts and grouping smokers in with opiod addicts, basically. My husband took umbrage with being called a drug addict because he smokes cigarettes. (he dual uses, as I am sure everyone knows as I have mentioned it before)
Anyway, one big point in the speech does concern tobacco users and cigarette smokers, as the FDA wants to greatly reduce nicotine levels in cigarettes and somehow make them non addictive, and are trying to figure out how to do that without opening up a huge black market. (My husband literally laughed at the thought and is now planning on planting his very own tobacco patch.. lol)
So, all the other points were pretty much heard before from Gottlieb, but feel free to hear them again concerning deeming and all the main talking points about e cigarettes.
That said, now on to the 36 minute point concerning teens and vaping, there is a HUGE ad campaign going out demonizing vaping, put out BY the FDA, beginning next week on all venues where teens go, such as YouTube etc etc.
Feel free to see the ad campaign beginning at the 36 minute mark, and hit a couple minutes earlier than that to hear Gotteib speak on why they are putting out the ad campaign. It is very much anti vaping, anti nicotine in general.
Fun Fun.
Now, onto the panel of speakers, a couple anti tobacco people, Zeller, and a Professor Ken Warner from the University of Michigan (Lifelong anti tobacco personality).
Some points made, one, that it is combustible forms of nicotine delivery which is what is deadly. Everyone agrees on this point.
Speaking on the correlation between the rise of e cigarette use in teens and young adults and the lower levels of use of combustible cigarette use in teens and young adults - FDA believes the correlation is true. less cigarette use is equaling rise in e cigarette use, hence anti vaping ad campaign. Everyone happy.
Trying to keep another generation from ever trying any form of nicotine delivery.
Couple big points made. Zeller:
1) They are trying to determine what additional rules they want to pack into the deeming regulations.
2) They are not addressing nicotine levels in non-combustible delivery systems by design. (might speak to those additional rules they are thinking of piling on - don't know, FDA wont say)
3) FDA is planning on making certain that the final rules cannot be litigated, and if they are, that they cannot be won.
Zeller kept talking about the "Rules of the Road" concerning regulation, to which my husband said, "the rules of the road are "Stay the hell out of my tobacco patch" ." (Just thought that was funny..)
They are saying the final rulings on flavors still have to be determined because its a dual issue, one of teen use and one of flavored e cigarettes being helpful to people getting off combustible tobacco. But lots of talk about flavors.
Concerning nicotine levels, congress has said the FDA cannot take nicotine levels down to zero, but the FDA can regulate nicotine other than that, and determine any level they choose. Everyone happy about that.
Concern about long term use of HNB delivery systems.. some talk there. Spoke also that society may have to accept and discuss the fact that some people will need to use alternative nicotine delivery systems for life..
Hoping for a full switch from combustible tobacco to alternative nicotine delivery systems in the future, and a combustible tobacco free society in the future of the US.
BIG point made at the 1 hour and 40 minute mark, about how having a concentrated amount of large companies instead of many small companies is a good thing because it lowers competition in the marketplace and keeps prices artificially high - which makes them think it keeps use lower. The bad they see in that is the lobbying power of the larger companies because of their concentrated wealth. Hoping for a happy medium there I guess to avoid lobbying power?
Ken Warner said the hobbyist market in e cigarette community would be more difficult to sustain in a concentrated market, but from my understanding he sees that as a good thing? Not sure there if I was understanding him correctly on that point, but he did say he didn't know where that was headed (ie: the hobbyist market)
They mentioned on cigarettes that if all they end up with is another light cigarette then the regulations will have failed. Said Cornerstone of the regulations was pre market review of any claims, cant comply with regulations = cant sell products. Then spoke on enforcement of regulations etc. etc.
Ken Warner did mention the next couple years will determine e cigarette use among teens, says we need more data over next couple years and it might not be as bad as we think.
Okay, so that is some of what the video is about. Please watch the whole thing for your own take on it, I just hit a couple points here to explain whats on the video for those who cannot watch right now.
And I am off here to purchase more nicotine for my and my families future, and my husband is going to plant a bunch of tobacco. I hope all of you have a nice day.
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It increasingly looks like the New Deal is much the same as the old deal. At least from the bureaucrat's perspective. Perhaps it always does.
Good luck.
I'm too firm in my belief that the initiation of violence is morally wrong to start shooting at them.
I think it's the wrong time of year to plant tobacco. He should probably wait until spring.
But if I didn't have a lifetime supply of nic already, I'd certainly still be working toward accumulating it on an ongoing basis.
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