Delay the FDA, Citizen Petition on Regulations.gov, what's the deal?

[ENAUD]

I have been wondering about this CTA from CASAA for a couple days now.
from the e-mail:

A Citizen Petition has been submitted to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requesting that the agency issue "final guidance or regulations describing the recommended or required contents of premarket submissions..." In addition to requesting this final guidance, petitioners (njoy et. al.) are requesting that the compliance period be extended by 24 months from the time the guidance is published. Such a delay is necessary in order for manufacturers to complete the required premarket tobacco application (PMTA) process.

^^my bold^^

THIS IS NOT YOUR AVERAGE PETITION!!!



21 CFR §10.30 establishes the Citizen Petition as a legitimate pathway to affect changes in regulations after the official public comment period has closed. CASAA is asking our members to post comments in support of this petition on the official docket at Regulations.gov. Comments must be submitted by November 8th, 2017, 11:59 PM (EST).

And here's a link to the actual petition: http://casaa.org/wp-content/uploads/Citizen_Petition_from_NJOY_et_al_.pdf

---------

So it's been a few days since I got the e-mail from CASAA, and find it curious that no discussion came about here on the forum regarding it. I can't help but wonder why? do we just not care anymore? do we feel it a moot point to take the time to respond to the CTA? personally, I am probably guilty on both counts, but will undoubtedly take a few moments and add my three cents to the petition anyways, even though I feel they do very little real good in scheme of things, it makes me feel good to type a personalized message into a public docket stating the real facts, as they pertain to me personally, on my journey away from cigarettes via the aid of vape products verses the failures I encountered with the quit our way or die paradigm I had been subjected to previously. Anywhoo, just thought I'd drop this here and see where it goes...

 

[ENAUD]

@moderators, I dropped this here for exposure, but feel free to move it to wherever if suitable, and dump this post if so. thanks

 

[Eskie]

Thanks for posting it. I did not receive a CTA email about this, and this is the first I've heard about it

 

[mattiem]

I have tried to leave a comment but clicking on the post your comment just takes me to a screen to enter my personal info. I have no idea as to how to get to the comment screen.

 

[ENAUD]

I have tried to leave a comment but clicking on the post your comment just takes me to a screen to enter my personal info. I have no idea as to how to get to the comment screen.

You need to enter the info before being allowed to post a comment. Your comment will be part of an official publicly viewable document. The info you enter will not be accessible but your comment left will be, so keep that in mind

 

[mattiem]

You need to enter the info before being allowed to post a comment. Your comment will be part of an official publicly viewable document. The info you enter will not be accessible but your comment left will be, so keep that in mind

Thank you. My comments have been sent.

 

[Smoke_too_much]

Time is money, as they say, so I wouldn't hold my breath on this petition succeeding.

 

[zoiDman]

...

So it's been a few days since I got the e-mail from CASAA, and find it curious that no discussion came about here on the forum regarding it. I can't help but wonder why? do we most people just not care anymore? do we most people feel it a moot point to take the time to respond to the CTA? personally, I am probably guilty on both counts, ...

Yeah... That's about the Long and the Short of it.

Between the "I Have Mine. So Deeming Doesn't Effect Me" and "The Swap Drainer will Fix Everything" and "I don't have time to write my Reps. But I have Time to Make 10K worth of Posts about e-Cigarettes." crowds, advocacy on the ECF is about Zilch.

 

[motordude]

Sad

 

[Bad Ninja]

Yeah... That's about the Long and the Short of it.

Between the "I Have Mine. So Deeming Doesn't Effect Me" and "The Swap Drainer will Fix Everything" and "I don't have time to write my Reps. But I have Time to Make 10K worth of Posts about e-Cigarettes." crowds, advocacy on the ECF is about Zilch.

You left out the "I vote and advocate locally but dont care to enlist in online mailing lists that get zero done except selling my info" crowd.

 

[ENAUD]

Sad

yup, sad indeed...sometimes I wish they (FDA) had taken a more aggressive approach, and started taking down the industry immediatly upon the issuance of the deeming, the shock value would have been a more rallying motivator to us consumers of vape products. By giving such a gracious two year period of compliance, they deviously created an environment of complacency and attrition, whereby folks could load up, buisnesses could cash in, and the sky doesn't really seem like it's going to fall. Meanwhile, back at the ranch...how many vendors have we already lost. In my heart, I feel that only a very few vendors/ manufacturors will even try to comply with the convoluted and non descript requirements set forth. This petition actually demands that the FDA make clear what they expect for an application, and also demands a two year grace period for complience from when they do issue real guidance for compliance. Am I missing the point? This could be big, this could be a game changer...and ...radio silence!


am I off base here?

 

[Ca Ike]

Well there is a bit of a disconnect between the industry and consumers when it comes to advocacy. I personally contacted over 200 shops and manufacturers to help get support for the petition Lessifer and a few of us started on change.org. Out of those only two tried to help. Provape and a local shop. Most of the rest didn't want to bother and a few out right condemned our effort.

Now that the hammer has fallen they want our support for them using the same type of effort we got ridiculed for. Kind of feels like a slap in the face to me.

 

[Steamix]

yup, sad indeed...sometimes I wish they (FDA) had taken a more aggressive approach, and started taking down the industry immediatly upon the issuance of the deeming, the shock value would have been a more rallying motivator to us consumers of vape products. By giving such a gracious two year period of compliance, they deviously created an environment of complacency and attrition, whereby folks could load up, buisnesses could cash in, and the sky doesn't really seem like it's going to fall. Meanwhile, back at the ranch...how many vendors have we already lost. In my heart, I feel that only a very few vendors/ manufacturors will even try to comply with the convoluted and non descript requirements set forth. This petition actually demands that the FDA make clear what they expect for an application, and also demands a two year grace period for complience from when they do issue real guidance for compliance. Am I missing the point? This could be big, this could be a game changer...and ...radio silence!


am I off base here?

How to boil a frog ...

... by raising the temperature ever so slowly, the frog stays put.

That's the two years 'grace' period.

BT knows very well that vapers who did educate themselves about liquids, mods, coil builds, etc. won't be coming back as consumers of their products.
Ever.

Their own product lines of e-cigs won't change that. Me, I can't imagine anyone going for one of these fiddly sticks after experiencing what a decent setup can deliver.

BT knows that. Leaning too hard too fast on the vape industry might make their flocks aware of the gate to greener pastures standing wide open. So they cranked up the propaganda machine to keep their flock of consumers from wandering off before they've built their own version of 'greener' pastures.

' I keep them poor, while you keep them dumb' , said the baron to the bishop...

Showing some frogs the thermometer reading ... 'What?! That can't be. I'm not feeling hot yet'

Almost 'al dente' - time to hop out, folks

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Well there is a bit of a disconnect between the industry and consumers when it comes to advocacy. I personally contacted over 200 shops and manufacturers to help get support for the petition Lessifer and a few of us started on change.org. Out of those only two tried to help. Provape and a local shop. Most of the rest didn't want to bother and a few out right condemned our effort.

Now that the hammer has fallen they want our support for them using the same type of effort we got ridiculed for. Kind of feels like a slap in the face to me.

Nicely said. I refrained from posting on this thread because of the reception we got from CASAA. It was inexcusably brutal and derogatory. However, anybody with more brass than I have, please participate in this. It'll take me a bit longer to suck it up and follow suit.

BTW, anybody remember the old CASAA recruiting threads on ECF? Heavy supporter here once I was shown the light. How about @Flavored 's heroic efforts? Way back when, we went from pathetic numbers to admirable.

CASAA was born on ECF, not sure they even post here anymore. Newer people likely don't even have a clue who they are. They used to have some excellent voices of reason on ECF. They moved to FB, a place I refuse to join. We're (ECF) not important to them anymore and that's been the case for some time.

Do sign up for CASAA, if nothing else, their CTAs are important, especially alerting you to local legislation in your area. It really is worth it. CASAA

 

[mattiem]

Well there is a bit of a disconnect between the industry and consumers when it comes to advocacy. I personally contacted over 200 shops and manufacturers to help get support for the petition Lessifer and a few of us started on change.org. Out of those only two tried to help. Provape and a local shop. Most of the rest didn't want to bother and a few out right condemned our effort.

Now that the hammer has fallen they want our support for them using the same type of effort we got ridiculed for. Kind of feels like a slap in the face to me.

We are fighting for our lives and they should have been fighting for their livelihood. It is sad that they just didn't seem to care enough to even try.

Nicely said. I refrained from posting on this thread because of the reception we got from CASAA. It was inexcusably brutal and derogatory. However, anybody with more brass than I have, please participate in this. It'll take me a bit longer to suck it up and follow suit.

BTW, anybody remember the old CASAA recruiting threads on ECF? Heavy supporter here once I was shown the light. How about @Flavored 's heroic efforts? Way back when, we went from pathetic numbers to admirable.

CASAA was born on ECF, not sure they even post here anymore. Newer people likely don't even have a clue who they are. They used to have some excellent voices of reason on ECF. They moved to FB, a place I refuse to join. We're (ECF) not important to them anymore and that's been the case for some time.

Do sign up for CASAA, if nothing else, their CTAs are important, especially alerting you to local legislation in your area. It really is worth it. CASAA

Just like both of y'all I struggled with this but finally decided to add my name to their petition. I don't totally agree with the way they are going about this but I decided to fight every possible way. I personally think getting us removed from being classified as a tobacco product is the number one thing to do but unlike them I am willing to do whatever it takes to let my voice be heard. I really don't understand their one sided view.

My comments may not be posted since I basically told my story and never mentioned changing the dates to allow more time. We had all the time in the world before the hammer came down but sadly we were all too divided to get anything done. The bottom line......It seem to me like most folks go around with their head stuck in the clouds and don't want to know what is going on all around them. One day, when they discover what we have now, we no longer have, maybe, just maybe they will wake up but by then it will be to late.

 

[Opinionated]

I have been wondering about this CTA from CASAA for a couple days now.
from the e-mail:

^^my bold^^



And here's a link to the actual petition: http://casaa.org/wp-content/uploads/Citizen_Petition_from_NJOY_et_al_.pdf

---------

So it's been a few days since I got the e-mail from CASAA, and find it curious that no discussion came about here on the forum regarding it. I can't help but wonder why? do we just not care anymore? do we feel it a moot point to take the time to respond to the CTA? personally, I am probably guilty on both counts, but will undoubtedly take a few moments and add my three cents to the petition anyways, even though I feel they do very little real good in scheme of things, it makes me feel good to type a personalized message into a public docket stating the real facts, as they pertain to me personally, on my journey away from cigarettes via the aid of vape products verses the failures I encountered with the quit our way or die paradigm I had been subjected to previously. Anywhoo, just thought I'd drop this here and see where it goes...

I didn't get an email..

however ill be honest at this point when I see a petition running around I no longer know if it's one I've already added my voice to or not, so I'm rather slower at adding any comment to new petitions..

Which is not a matter of not caring, but rather a lack of organization on my part as I never realized there would be multiple petitions for me to sign. I don't want to be adding anything to a petition I added to 6 months ago..

So.. there is that for some of us.

 

[D4rk50ul]

Lack of communication on here is likely the reason you don't see posts regarding it. Unless they are banned from posting here I question why our advocacy group doesn't take the time to let the forum know about a new petition or vital info. I can't imagine it's due to time constraints.

I personally believe with the presidential change people in the US are expecting things to be different automatically. They look for little things like someone that an important figure knows vaping as a sign its going to be ok then just idly watch it unfold. Most people are lazy if give the opportunity so I am not at all surprised by the lack of initiative to find stuff like this.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Petitions mean very little without an organized voting base to back them up.

Your voice is your vote, not an online post.

If people spent half as much time researching their local politicians before voting, as they do online talking about it, we would have already won this struggle.

Organize, encourage research, and support the local politicians who will support us.

A petition with 10,000 online signatures is nothing compared to 10,000 organized voters in a given district.

That's a voice that gets heard.

It's time to get rid of the lawmakers that support these ridiculous regulations.

 

[puffon]

CASAA posted this yesterday:
Delay the FDA - Comment on the Citizen Petition Today!

 

[Lessifer]

I added my comment to this when I saw the CTA from CASAA, on FB, because attack from any and every angle and all that. I can't say I'm enthused about this one though.

If I understand it correctly, what they're saying is that the FDA should suspend enforcement until the FDA releases FINAL guidance on the PMTA process for ENDS. What we have now are DRAFT guidance. This sounds good, but as I understand it, the cigarette PMTA process is still under DRAFT guidance, and has been since 2011.