Diketones will destroy vaping before they destroys your lungs
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I have concluded it's not worth debating diketones because the result is always the same , you have people who believe it will most likely result in health consequences over the long haul and you will have those that always say real cigs are worse so nothing to worry about lol.
If there was no juice available or it wasn't possible to acquire your own flavorings that do not contain diketones i would (of course) choose to vape anyway because i do know cigs will doom me faster.
Since that is not the case and juice etc.. is available free of diketones i choose to go in that direction , i think it's a waste of time to start a thread that sounds like your saying (whats wrong with everybody , are you all nuts, actually i would probably start a thread like that ) anyways , if somebody is inquiring about it because they really don't know, educate them but let them decide and make up their own mind.
It's perfectly OK to think someone is a complete nut job , i just don't recommend saying it too loud or writing it in a post , totally normal behavior to think it though , in other words , this topic should not evolve into a brawl to the death , at least it shouldn't but it can happen.
If there was no juice available or it wasn't possible to acquire your own flavorings that do not contain diketones i would (of course) choose to vape anyway because i do know cigs will doom me faster.
Since that is not the case and juice etc.. is available free of diketones i choose to go in that direction , i think it's a waste of time to start a thread that sounds like your saying (whats wrong with everybody , are you all nuts, actually i would probably start a thread like that ) anyways , if somebody is inquiring about it because they really don't know, educate them but let them decide and make up their own mind.
It's perfectly OK to think someone is a complete nut job , i just don't recommend saying it too loud or writing it in a post , totally normal behavior to think it though , in other words , this topic should not evolve into a brawl to the death , at least it shouldn't but it can happen.
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That's a damn good video with some pretty scary info. Thanks for posting. It says way more than I ever could and far better. Seems pretty cut and dry that diketones are an unacceptable risk and should be avoided.
@ Bitter jeweler
You said you are thinking of taking things in a different direction but you aren't decided yet. You stopped smoking brother and that's amazing. Vaping is the much better way. Just consider that all of these people who are a part of "vape culture" and ECF and the owners of juice shops and all those people, they won't have anything to say to you if you get yourself in trouble. You are alone when it comes to making choices for your health.
Just watch that video that was posted, research some more yourself, connect the dots man and make a choice. None of these people will be there for you if you get sick and hurt and no advice will repair the damage. This is a one chance opportunity where a mistake of this magnitude is just not affordable for anyone.
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Then avoid them. Its not that hard, there are plenty of vendors who offer verified diketone free ejuices. Just allow everyone else to make their own decision as well. You have no more of a right to tell people not to vape diketone laden juices than they have to tell you you have to vape them. Your rights end the moment you start to encroach on someone elses.
I can say whatever the hell I want and if I think even ONE person will stop vaping diketones, at least partly due to my loud mouth, then its worth it. That freedom you like to throw in my face, its what I'm rolling with right now brother.
It won't. You have no idea how many hundreds of pages have been devoted to this very same subject. If anyone here continues to choose to use it, it is their choice - just as Brent said, above.
Yes. Dr. Ann Hubbs of NIOSH-----Her graduate research was conducted at Lovelace Inhalation Toxicology Research Institute, and then she joined NIOSH as a Toxicologist in the Division of Respiratory Disease Studies.
(I would think she knows a bit "more" than vapers on an internet forum about respiratory toxicology, huh?
)She was the lead researcher in that study with rats exposed to diacetyls, in which they found " “the most dramatic cases of cell death ever seen.”
Their suggestion for permissible exposure limits, yeah, something I would certainly take to heart.
But nothing to see here; nothing to worry about.
WHATEVER are you talking about?
This is an internet forum, he can post whatever opinions he wishes. And / or give advice if he wants to.
That is not encroaching on anyone's freedoms.
Your posts crack me up. It's like you are repeating memes you heard somewhere but they have no applicability in the way you're trying to use them.
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Every vaper should see this and decide for themselves if there is sufficient information to stay clear of diketones.
I suspect if all who vape had this information from the outset, few would knowingly vape liquids containing them.
I fully understand paying good money for whatever a particular person considers to be tasty (and safe) juice, but ya have to be a pretty serious fanboy to pay $0.56 per ml of UNFLAVORED.
who's saying they are an unacceptable risk?
even i am willing to admit they may be a potential risk.
see my post 254.
regards
mike
Besides vaping diketones please do not choose firefighting as a career . CDC - Fire Fighters - Study of Cancer among U.S. Fire Fighters
I agree. I don't think Moonbogg should vape e-liquids that contain Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl. Because it appears that He/She has done some Research into all this. And sees Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl as an Unnecessary and Avoidable Risk.
But what about the Vast Majority of People who have Never even heard of Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl? Because once you Leave the Realm of Internet Forums and venture out into the Real World, Only a Very Small Percentage of Vapers have heard of Diacetyl. And of that Small Percentage, it is but a Tiny Fraction who know what Acetyl Propionyl is. And how saying that an e-Liquid is Diacetyl Free, but contains the Same Amount (or in Many Cases More) Acetyl Propionyl may be just as Bad.
You said that People should make their Own Decisions about what they Choose to put into their Lungs. Something I agree with, People Making Informed Choices. But if a person has Never heard about Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl, how can they make an Informed Choice?
Shouldn't these people have Access to Information and to Threads like this so they can make up their own Minds?
Maybe I have Thicker Skin than some here, but I don't see This Thread as infringing on Anyone Rights. Either for those who choose to Inhale Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl or those who Choose Not To.
Stating your beliefs is fine.
Quoting studies is fine (although many are suspect)
Emphatically declaring that vaping diketones will destroy your lungs and therefore diketones should be removed from all eliquids IS NOT FINE. There is ZERO proof that vaping diketones causes ANY harm.
Quoting studies is fine (although many are suspect)
Emphatically declaring that vaping diketones will destroy your lungs and therefore diketones should be removed from all eliquids IS NOT FINE. There is ZERO proof that vaping diketones causes ANY harm.
Not saying I agreed with some of the Phrasing that the OP used. But this is a Forum. And you get that sometimes.
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See you don't put any Credence into the Work that Dr. Hubbs at al has done? Or see that any possible Correlation between the presences of Diketones in e-Liquids and problems Down the Road?
for those of us that smoked it wasn't so much the health warnings that were
egregious. it was being ostracized from society. being blamed for causing
harm to our fellow non-smokers. being kicked to the curb by the trash cans.
being charged usury tax rates and,blamed for all sort of socio-economic ills.
all based on science that is still being argued about to this day. so waht about
our fellow vapers who haven't and probably will not hear about these issues?
one big so what. its the i am my brothers keeper attitude that is the cause
of all this debate. it might cause harm,we don't know,anyone can make juice,
we need transparency,(what ever that means) and still no verifiable health
risk on the horizon. its about time are fellow vapers and non-vaping/smoking
counterparts learned to fend for themselves. i do not want to run their lives
and i don't want them running mine.
regards
mike
Thank you! I have been silently lurking and waiting for someone to mention the issues I bolded. This indeed may be my only post in this thread and I may have missed some posts so please humor me.
My short term action plan:
1. I carry a print out of an outstanding article written by SJ/Olver Kershaw, the founder of ECF titled Confused about diacetyl? You should be I've used it numerous times when I'm out and about with my activism efforts and it works to help folks grasp the essential issues germain to DA and AP. So "they" can make their own decision or in some cases continue their own research having grasped the essentials. What you WON'T find in this article is bloviating, theatrics, dictates, and other techniques that really don't help the uninformed learn about the issue.
2. I'm about to start the following procedure and if you really care about the industry as opposed to hearing yourself type /lol /joke try this:
Go to the AEMSA site and read what they say. Including their "recommendation" titled AEMSA Recommends Flavor Testing. Their Standards document contain this little nugget:
".. (d) Members will provide answers to consumers on ingredients of products
(i) Yes/No answers to specific questions as pertains to specific customer sensitivity questions
(ii) No intellectual property or trade secrets of the e-liquid ingredient has to be revealed
1) This includes revealing the source supplier and trademarked/brand name ingredient
(e) Clearly identified products that are not manufactured by AEMSA Members
1) If the member sells liquid that is manufactured in a non AEMSA compliant facility it must:
2) Clearly identify/ differentiate products that are AEMSA compliant and those that are not AEMSA compliant on a product by product basis
Finally, send a polite and respectful email to their members and ASK THEM about the levels of DA and or AP, test results for same, and test results for levels of NIC, PG, and VG. Save your emails and don't hesitate to inform AEMSA if one of their members violates their own "Standards". If you think AEMSA could be improved with "tighter" additional standards, let them know with specifics.
Rome was not built in a day
but OUR collective efforts can certainly help apply "pressure" and educate what I guestimate are the millons of vapers who have no clue about DA, AP, and test results disclosure.EDITED
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I like the "Falling Rocks" warning sign analogy. One can not say with certainty that any rocks have fallen unless one sees it happen, but a pile of rocks and a geologist's opinion is a pretty good indication you may get hit with falling rocks. Although one can argue that we don't know for sure how the rocks got there, or whether another rock may fall, I would like that sign to be there as I am not a terrain expert. In my case, that sign correlates with vendors indicating there is diketone information available about their liquids.
It might take years for the rocks to fall in terms of diketones and my lungs, maybe never, but I want a sign on that road so I can steer clear.
It might take years for the rocks to fall in terms of diketones and my lungs, maybe never, but I want a sign on that road so I can steer clear.
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