DIY Disaster!!!

[Caterpiller]

WE HAVE A WINNER!!

So as my nic testing kit has spent the last four days travelling from Columbia MD to Baltimore MD to Chicago, with USPS, I thought I'd make some progress by testing what I could, the PG and VG.

So I loaded up my Derringer, dual coil, 1ohm, with 100% PG USP.

In the bottle this PG has no decernable smell, is very viscous, and completely clear.

When shaked it forms tiny little bubbles in the liquid that disapear slowly with time.

I was sure the PG would be fine, but still a little nervous from my previous experience, so I set it to 20w and proceeded to take the smallest possible puff.

I'm talking a quarter of a second puff.

Immediately it didn't taste right, a cold hit straight off the bat.

I almost couldn't believe what was happening, so foolishly I took another, slightly bigger hit. About half a second or less this time.

It has a HUGE cold sensation that hits the roof of your mouth and almost stings.

It has a more subtle flavour, a hint of menthol and a very slightly bitter backnote that is much more subtle again.

I'm really stunned!

I really just found it hard to tust me senses, I just didn't think this was possible.

I took the top cap off the Derringer and lite up the coils, giving the vapor a quick sniff (which I probably should have done in the first place).

It's not so clear on the nose, by I could still tell it wasn't right. Nothing like any juice I've ever vaped.

This was 20 minutes ago. Again I felt a bit light headed, started sweeting from my head, got an uncomfortable feeling in my chest, and generally feel pretty bad!

It's not as sever as the first time, I took in considerably less, although it was of course 100% PG this time.

Feel like I'm going to be fine in another 30 mins or so.

Well that's it. I'm done with this company. Bad PG is just unacceptable! It's not like they had to mix it with anything. You know, by it from the international supplier, put it into smaller bottles, sell it. It should be easy.

Right now I'm thinking I'll just bin the PG the VG the nic base, the flavourings, everything.

I just can't trust this company.

Man this sucks.

 

[dannyv45]

Good going now dump it and get some from a reputable place. I use essential depot Propylene Glycol: Essential Depot . but that may be more then you need. Bullcity, myfreedomsmokes, or RTS are all good places but I'm not sure if they ship to Malaysia In fact I just checked and RTS will ship to you. Maybe get rid of the VG and PG as there cheap to replace. the NIC may be OK and is better then needing to get more NIC and besides the point you made out with that free NIC replacement.

 

[Hoosier]

Yeah, that sucks.

I've never gotten a bad batch of PG, but I've read about it a few times on here. Oddly, yours is the worst I've ever read. So much sl that it made me wonder if you have a PG sensitivity.

 

[Caterpiller]

Good going now dump it and get some from a reputable place. I use essential depot Propylene Glycol: Essential Depot . but that may be more then you need. Bullcity, myfreedomsmokes, or RTS are all good places but I'm not sure if they ship to Malaysia In fact I just checked and RTS will ship to you. Maybe get rid of the VG and PG as there cheap to replace. the NIC may be OK and is better then needing to get more NIC and besides the point you made out with that free NIC replacement.

Thanks Danny,

I've actually got a 250ml bottle of 100mg nic base in 100% PG on order with RTS already.

Paid about $33 USD for it, plus $45 USD for shipping.

They sent me the USPS tracking number today, so should ship out on Monday at the latest.

Could take anything from 2-3 weeks to get here. Which is fine as long as it doesn't get stopped by customs or lost by the Malaysian postal service.

Assuming this arrives I'll go ahead and try to order a litre of PG and a Litre of VG, along with some flavourings.

But I'll need to see what they quote me on shipping for this as it will be about five times heavier.

At this point I'm prepared to pay over the top for quality.

I figure I'll get about 65 x 30ml bottles from this, and as most imported 30ml bottles of branded e-juice cost $26 USD, I'll still make a massive saving on the 65 bottles, just not as big a saving as you guys are making.

As for the VG. I didn't test it, I was planning to, but after the PG I lost all interest in inhaling products supplied by this vendor.

It's going in the bin.

I've had my doubts about the nic base, and even if it tests okay for nic levels, it's got a strong peppery note that would at least partially mask most flavours, and I simply won't be comfortable vaping anything from this company.

 

[Caterpiller]

Yeah, that sucks.

I've never gotten a bad batch of PG, but I've read about it a few times on here. Oddly, yours is the worst I've ever read. So
much sl that it made me wonder if you have a PG sensitivity.

You've got to wonder what the heck has happened here.

As far as I can tel it's either very contaminated PG, or not PG at all!

Could I have a sensitivity to PG? I don't think so. I'm really not the sort to have a sensativity to anything.

Also I've only ever vaped 50/50 blends, and I've had no trouble with PG at 50%.

Surely if I had a sensativity I'd have noticed a problem at 50% PG?

I would ask, what should 100% PG taste like without nic or flavourings?

 

[AndriaD]

You've got to wonder what the heck has happened here.

As far as I can tel it's either very contaminated PG, or not PG at all!

Could I have a sensitivity to PG? I don't think so. I'm really not the sort to have a sensativity to anything.

Also I've only ever vaped 50/50 blends, and I've had no trouble with PG at 50%.

Surely if I had a sensativity I'd have noticed a problem at 50% PG?

I would ask, what should 100% PG taste like without nic or flavourings?

Nothing much, really... kinda like describing the taste of water?

It almost seems like that PG was contaminated with Koolada... no taste, but a strong cool hit.

Andria

 

[Caterpiller]

Nothing much, really... kinda like describing the taste of water?

It almost seems like that PG was contaminated with Koolada... no taste, but a strong cool hit.

Andria

As bizarre as it sounds, that does seem quite likely, but at a high % that made it toxic to vape.

But why would they mix it with the PG in the first place?

Now you tell me that PG has no taste and no cooling sensation, I'm 100% sure I didn't get 100% PG.

 

[dannyv45]

You've got to wonder what the heck has happened here.

As far as I can tel it's either very contaminated PG, or not PG at all!

Could I have a sensitivity to PG? I don't think so. I'm really not the sort to have a sensativity to anything.

Also I've only ever vaped 50/50 blends, and I've had no trouble with PG at 50%.

Surely if I had a sensativity I'd have noticed a problem at 50% PG?

I would ask, what should 100% PG taste like without nic or flavourings?

I would tend to agree with you on the PG sensitivity. If you have been vaping 50/50 then I would just say there is something wrong with that batch of PG. So I think your going in the right direction.

 

[Hoosier]

With 50/50 not being a problem, I'm leaning towards the "not PG" in your PG bottle.

Anybody vaped straight koolada? I do vape a flavoring straight once and it was really bad, kinda' like the OP's experience. (Mine was Dark Vapure though so if anyone knows that flavoring, you can only guess what vaping it straight by accident was like.)

 

[mhertz]

[...]
I would ask, what should 100% PG taste like without nic or flavourings?

It tastes very bitter sweet. It sortoff reminds very much of alcohol and is very dry. However, it seems many people just think it has no taste really, which to me sounds really astonishing It tastes like it vapes btw, but if you dont have any then that's no help then. Flavoring mutes those pg taste properties greatly though, even in small percentages.

 

[AndriaD]

As bizarre as it sounds, that does seem quite likely, but at a high % that made it toxic to vape.

But why would they mix it with the PG in the first place?

Now you tell me that PG has no taste and no cooling sensation, I'm 100% sure I didn't get 100% PG.

My guess would be, they processed it on machinery that hadn't been cleaned properly; good chance that whatever was processed last was either koolada or menthol -- powerful stuff, either way.

Andria

 

[vapee]

You can maybe source some pg and vg from a local pharmacy, vg may be more readily available but it needs to be unflavoured pure vg, but some pharmacies can order the pg for you and i'd think vg more so too, maybe not the best price but should be decent and pharmacy grade!

 

[zoiDman]

...

I was sure the PG would be fine, but still a little nervous from my previous experience, so I set it to 20w and proceeded to take the smallest possible puff.

I'm talking a quarter of a second puff.

Immediately it didn't taste right, a cold hit straight off the bat.

I almost couldn't believe what was happening, so foolishly I took another, slightly bigger hit. About half a second or less this time.

It has a HUGE cold sensation that hits the roof of your mouth and almost stings.

It has a more subtle flavour, a hint of menthol and a very slightly bitter backnote that is much more subtle again.

I'm really stunned!

...

I am Glad that you Got to the Bottom of this.

Sucks that you got ahold of Something that was Bad. But Good that you were able to Isolate what was the Problem.

 

[Caterpiller]

FAITH IS RESTORED!!

So after speaking at length with my local vender, we were in agreement that his staff had sent me 1 litre of his "cooling agent" which is something similar to Koolada, and looks very much like PG, with only a subtle smell.

He appoligised profusely, and says he has been in business for 3 years without a similar incident.

He had already posted me an extra bottle of 100mg nic, which I now know was not the offending item.

He came to my office yesterday, some 45 minutes drive from his, and personally dropped off a new litre of PG, and collected his "cooling agent". So again great service.

We discussed vaping at length and he is very knowledgeable, and again expressed his dismay that they made such a huge error with my order.

This morning my nicotine test kit arrived, so I tested both the first and second bottles of 100mg he has supplied.

The first, the one with a strong peppery smell, tests at 97.5mg

The second, which is tasteless, tests at 94mg

The test itself has a variance of about 3%, and I'd say my sloppy measurements could easily explain the remaining 2 or 3%. So I have to say his nic stood up extremely well to testing.

That combined with dropping off the new PG, and faith is restored.

Happy days!

P.S. Never, ever, vape straight Koolada!

 

[satchvai]

Just wow. Glad you're ok and figured out the issue. That lack of Quality Control concerns me, though. We know nothing about this cooling agent and its safety for inhalation other than it caused you to become sick very quickly, which suggests to me it is pretty toxic stuff. No telling what could have happened if you continued to use it as if it were PG. I know he says it is a one off mistake but I'm not sure if I'd be confident ordering from him again.

 

[dannyv45]

Seems that the vender is very concerned and willing to go out of his way to fix the issue. I would continue to use him and see how it goes. Keep his contact info handy and hopefully all will be well. If it goes sideways you do have RTS which is an expensive route but dependable.

 

[Caterpiller]

Just wow. Glad you're ok and figured out the issue. That lack of Quality Control concerns me, though. We know nothing about this cooling agent and its safety for inhalation other than it caused you to become sick very quickly, which suggests to me it is pretty toxic stuff. No telling what could have happened if you continued to use it as if it were PG. I know he says it is a one off mistake but I'm not sure if I'd be confident ordering from him again.

I know. That's exactly how I felt when it happened.

But after calming down and meeting the guy, the pragmatist in me decided it was worth giving him another go, for the following reasons:

Importing from the US is not only expensive, but problematic.

This is the only vendor I've managed to find here.

Asia is not know for quality control or due diligence - I'm likely to have similar issues with any other local supplier.

Living in Asia you either except a few extra risks/challenges or you go home

So I'll work with this vendor with some caution.

 

[mhertz]

I agree with you fully! We're all just human afterall, and failures in some regard is something that can happen with any vendor. My own objective, is to not judge a vendor by such failures, but rather how they react to such failures and if they remedy the situation fully and are beeing in full dialog throughout.

E.g. I just used a new to me vendor, where I ordered nic in vg, but it came in pg. After reporting the incident, then the owner apologized and had send out another bottle immidiatelly with me keeping the wrong one. It then again came in pg, and after reporting it, then I was again given a big apology by the owner and that he was shocked over what had happened! He stated he would now personally go and pack and seal my bottle and send it to me and letting me keep the old, plus he would ask the packaging crew what the hell they thought they were doing... The resendings of the products to another country fully tracked was pretty expensive also. Also, all my mails were answered in maybe max 1 hour, even at e.g. 23pm... To be nice, i'm going to send him the wrong bottles back however.

In the situation of yours(Caterpiller), then I agree with you that he went out of his way to remedy the situation, which I personally would really appreciate!

 

[Caterpiller]

I agree with you fully! We're all just human afterall, and failures in some regard is something that can happen with any vendor. My own objective, is to not judge a vendor by such failures, but rather how they react to such failures and if they remedy the situation fully and are beeing in full dialog throughout.

E.g. I just used a new to me vendor, where I ordered nic in vg, but it came in pg. After reporting the incident, then the owner apologized and had send out another bottle immidiatelly with me keeping the wrong one. It then again came in pg, and after reporting it, then I was again given a big apology by the owner and that he was shocked over what had happened! He stated he would now personally go and pack and seal my bottle and send it to me and letting me keep the old, plus he would ask the packaging crew what the hell they thought they were doing... The resendings of the products to another country fully tracked was pretty expensive also. Also, all my mails were answered in maybe max 1 hour, even at e.g. 23pm... To be nice, i'm going to send him the wrong bottles back however.

Great customer service = Repeat business.
Good businesses know this, the rest should be avoided.

 

[bluecat]

Thanks for this Caterpillar. I once got a freebie from a major vendor. I usually DIY or vape unflavored (@50/50 or 25/75) and never had any reaction. I tried this sample and about 5 minutes later this

"
First I went a bit hot and cold. Then my forehead broke out in a proper sweet.

I felt faint and had some shortness of breath. Hoped I wasn't about to go down, and tried to push through.

I certainly felt anxious and jittery."

My tee-shirt was soaked in sweat.

It was a scarey 15-30 before the effects left. Scarey is not even the right term. That was about a year or 2 ago. I never figured out what it was, but stopped ordering liquids online and just kept at DIY. I dumped mine as soon as I was able to get up from the chair.

I know to stay away from Koolada or the cooling ones. Menthol doesn't give me any problems though as my typical unflavored does have some menthol or sulcrose added as does some of my flavored mixes.