DNA 40, NR, Nickel Builds

[jks89]

I've played with the temperature limit between 450 - 550. I'm using twisted 32g right now, about 10 wraps and .19ish if I remember right (don't have it with me right now). Watts set at 30.
The temperature control kicks in pretty much immediately, and the watts fluctuate between 5 and high teens. I'm still getting an acceptable amount of vapor, it just feels like I'm inhaling air.

 

[vakaion]

I got mine from zivipf.de (on a proper spool) [emoji14]

Just make sure you get grade 1 and not grade 2. Some people prefer 30g but I like 28g.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

I'm loving 4-5 wraps of 24g myself.

I thought you're supposed to drop the temp by at least 100F (could be more) compared to what you would run on nickel wire, because it's properties are different.

Anyone else whose used Ti want to chime in?

400-500F while using Ti seems way high to me, based off of everything I've read about using Ti wire on these TC devices.

THE WGU CLUB
Card Carrying Member/Co-Founder

As I've said previously, I subtract around 20% (just a ballpark figure).
I'm normally aroung 430F on nickel 200, 330-340F on titanium grade 1.

 

[vakaion]

I've played with the temperature limit between 450 - 550. I'm using twisted 32g right now, about 10 wraps and .19ish if I remember right (don't have it with me right now). Watts set at 30.
The temperature control kicks in pretty much immediately, and the watts fluctuate between 5 and high teens. I'm still getting an acceptable amount of vapor, it just feels like I'm inhaling air.

I've never tried ni200 coils at 30w...
On my Squape, Erlkonigin and Calix RTAs the highest I've been for regular vaping with 3mm twisted coils is around 25w. And usually 20-22w. And that's a warm vape. 30w would be like inhaling molten lava! lol
No idea what atty/wick/airflow you're using, but try around 450F at 25w. Nudge it up or down in 0.5w increments depending on whether you're hitting Temp or not until the set-up is just missing that temperature cutoff on a draw. You'll notice your vape being noticeably denser and warmer when it's not hitting that limit and throttling back all the time.
If you get to that point and it's not an acceptable vape for you, then it's mess with different wick densities.

 

[Rikk]

I've played with the temperature limit between 450 - 550. I'm using twisted 32g right now, about 10 wraps and .19ish if I remember right (don't have it with me right now). Watts set at 30.
The temperature control kicks in pretty much immediately, and the watts fluctuate between 5 and high teens. I'm still getting an acceptable amount of vapor, it just feels like I'm inhaling air.

Drop your watts and see if that helps. I think it totally should. I don't use twisted wire so I'm not sure if you need to throw that much power at it or not. I didn't have much luck with twisted but I'm going to visit it again, soon.

Start dropping your watts until you can get a nice pull without hitting TP. On my 30ga I'm throwing 17watts and I'm getting tons of vapor and it's a nice warm hit.

I thought building this low I would need to throw all this extra power at it to get it to vape right. I learned that I didn't need to. I'm usually around 17 to 20 watts and I think it vapes great.

 

[tchavei]

How does Ti compare to tempered nickel? I think from what I've read it's as firm if not more so? I'm really curious now and anxious to try it. Sounds like it holds it shape really well.

I'm going to get me some ordered and maybe start experimenting with some different atty's while I'm at it. Try something other than my always goto SqR.

Nice guys.... Thanks!

Better jump to the Ti coil and safety thread before we are kicked for discussing this here

But yes, the Ti I have is very hard and you can drop your atty on the floor without deforming the coil. Mine is working at 0.32 since April, 16th. No problem

Maybe you said in an earlier post but what temp are you set at? Plus, what wattage are you pushing and what's your build.

Not knowing any of that I would say up your temp some - get it to where you like it. Nothing wrong with bumping your temp up some. I don't think I would push it past 500, but not knowing what your currently at makes it a little hard to say.

And I honestly don't know why you couldn't take it above 500. I just never have. But hell, it goes up to 600 so why not, right? There's got to be a reason behind that number? Anybody know what it is?

I believe because above 600F, nickel resistivity stops being so predictable and starts jumping around. Saw a graph somewhere where the resistance curve would change above 600F.

I thought you're supposed to drop the temp by at least 100F (could be more) compared to what you would run on nickel wire, because it's properties are different.

Anyone else whose used Ti want to chime in?

400-500F while using Ti seems way high to me, based off of everything I've read about using Ti wire on these TC devices.

THE WGU CLUB
Card Carrying Member/Co-Founder

It's ruffly 80-100F at around 400F. It's not linear from 200F to 600F. At 212F there is only a 2-3F difference.

I'm using it at 356F which tastes the same as 440F on nickel.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[jks89]

No idea what atty/wick/airflow you're using, but try around 450F at 25w.

Lemo 2 with Cotton wick, have tried different amount of airflow to see if it makes a difference.

Start dropping your watts until you can get a nice pull without hitting TP. On my 30ga I'm throwing 17watts and I'm getting tons of vapor and it's a nice warm hit.

I should have some 30g sitting in my mailbox, so we'll see what that does too!

Thanks again for the good info and tips. I had assumed with such low resistance that high wattage would be necessary, much like transitioning to sub-ohm on Kanthal, but it makes sense now that I think about it that it wouldn't be as necessary since Nickel and Kanthal have such a different relationship with electricity.

 

[Rikk]

Lemo 2 with Cotton wick, have tried different amount of airflow to see if it makes a difference.



I should have some 30g sitting in my mailbox, so we'll see what that does too!

Thanks again for the good info and tips. I had assumed with such low resistance that high wattage would be necessary, much like transitioning to sub-ohm on Kanthal, but it makes sense now that I think about it that it wouldn't be as necessary since Nickel and Kanthal have such a different relationship with electricity.

I had never sub-ohmed before so I thought the exact same thing. Thought I had to throw all this power at it in order to get a decent vape. But I learned you really don't. 20 and under works great! But with my 30ga 7 wraps, 17watts is my sweet spot.

Keep us posted.....

 

[jks89]

Got my 30g as well as some rayon last night (have been using japanese cotton previously). I'm thinking my problem is that my wicking is just not being able to keep up. When I first got it set up, it was keeping up like a champ, holding pretty close to 19w with temp at 500. Pure speculation, but it seems like when the wick is super saturated (from me juicing it up during building) it does well. Then as it starts to rely on getting liquid from the tank, it starts hitting the temp limit a lot faster.

When it's been sitting for a bit the first drag usually performs a bit better, which I'm thinking is because the wick has had more time to catch up.

Edit: And now it's making me a liar, keeping up pretty good. I think I'm on the right track, just got to figure out my wicking so it stays a bit more consistent.

 

[Rikk]

Got my 30g as well as some rayon last night (have been using japanese cotton previously). I'm thinking my problem is that my wicking is just not being able to keep up. When I first got it set up, it was keeping up like a champ, holding pretty close to 19w with temp at 500. Pure speculation, but it seems like when the wick is super saturated (from me juicing it up during building) it does well. Then as it starts to rely on getting liquid from the tank, it starts hitting the temp limit a lot faster.

When it's been sitting for a bit the first drag usually performs a bit better, which I'm thinking is because the wick has had more time to catch up.

Edit: And now it's making me a liar, keeping up pretty good. I think I'm on the right track, just got to figure out my wicking so it stays a bit more consistent.

Having a spaced coil helps with wicking and keeping it below temp.

With my build on my Squape, I have a 3mm ID coil and I use about a 6mm strip of KGD. I lightly and I mean lightly pull off the outer skin on both sides of the cotton and fill my coil with cotton. I don't compress or roll the cotton - I only twist the one edge to get it through the coil, then just work the cotton thru the coil, pulling it back and forth a bit to work the coil so it doesn't deform to much. And if it does, readjust it.

For me it works really well. So in my case - more is more better.

 

[JasumX]

I just got some tempered ni200 in from stealth vapes yesterday! As much as it pains me to take out a beautifully working kanthal coil, I'll hopefully have some time to test with tempered this evening.

 

[jks89]

Got a twisted 30g ni200 build going well so far, thanks for the tips!

Is the main benefit of tempered that it's stiffer, or is there more to it?

 

[Rikk]

Got a twisted 30g ni200 build going well so far, thanks for the tips!

Is the main benefit of tempered that it's stiffer, or is there more to it?

I think that's about it - for me it creates a more stable coil and one that's much easier to wick. It's really nice to work with.

 

[tchavei]

I think that's about it - for me it creates a more stable coil and one that's much easier to wick. It's really nice to work with.

What he said. Personally I prefer 30g when I using hardened nickel. It makes the resistance more stable (read as higher).


Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[Phone Guy]

Is the tempered harder than the annealed once it's been work hardened on a drill?

 

[Rikk]

Is the tempered harder than the annealed once it's been work hardened on a drill?

Yes - much different. I've work hardened nickel with a drill and it's not like the tempered stuff I got from StealthVape. Plus I found the tempered held up much better under use too.

Work hardening helps but it's not the same. Others may not agree with me, but when I finally received my tempered nickel I couldn't believe the difference it made in my builds.

It was the end result that sealed the deal for me.

It will be interesting to hear opinions from others who've used both.

And I should add - it wasn't necessarily the hardness of the wire or the way it wrapped but more the stability of the coil all the way through that made the biggest difference to me. If that makes sense. I always seemed to have issues with resistance and refinement with my work hardened nickel. I just always had this nagging feeling that I somehow was damaging my wire when I was twisting or hardening it. I could never get a good solid build. I could have twisted it too much or not enough. I don't know but it wasn't the same for me at all. The stability I have in my builds now, I credit my tempered wire.

 

[jazzvaper]

For me this tool beats using a drill for work-hardening:

Amazon.com: Artistic Wire Nylon Jaw Pliers

Recommended by an ECF User, likely Qorax (or Sedge). I use it rarely 'cause I'm generally satisfied with standard 28, 26, or on occasion tempered 30 awg from Stealth Vapes.

I believe, however, that more consideration should be given to wrapping technique than to the wire or tools. I wrap on a 3 mm screwdriver, tug the ends with a needle nose plier, and, if necessary, work-harden the leads with the above tool. Finally, I pay attention to the placement of the coil (height and alignment) with the next size down precision screwdriver. Nothing more. I get very quick, consistent coils that do not deform when I add the KGD, or, Muji. In fact, if I don't like the taste I'm getting from a wick & coil, I will not hesitate to re-coil. 5-10 minutes and I'm done.

I have lost interest in a search for the "Holy Grail" of coiling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JasumX]

Well, back to kanthal :-/ The tempered stuff is definitely better, but now instead of constantly hitting TC it's giving me a bit of a burnt taste. After less than 1 ml of juice through it the middle 60% of my coil was already black. Threw my kanthal coil back in last night.

Granted this was my first attempt with the tempered ni200. I will be trying it again and coiling a bit tighter next time to see if that helps. I'm sure it's my coiling that's causing the problems.

 

[Rikk]

Well, back to kanthal :-/ The tempered stuff is definitely better, but now instead of constantly hitting TC it's giving me a bit of a burnt taste. After less than 1 ml of juice through it the middle 60% of my coil was already black. Threw my kanthal coil back in last night.

Granted this was my first attempt with the tempered ni200. I will be trying it again and coiling a bit tighter next time to see if that helps. I'm sure it's my coiling that's causing the problems.

Curious and frustrating. I get frustrated watching you all get frustrated. But I remember when I started out I always had my trusty Kanthal atty close at hand whilst I was learning. And when I started out I never left the house with my nickel builds as they were a mess...lol

But that's all you can do is try again and see how it goes.

 

[jks89]

I just ordered a roll of tempered 30g ni200 from stealth vapes. I've been twisting what I'm assuming is annealed 30g to make it firmer, so I'm hoping this will work a bit better for me. I had noticed with my kanthal builds that twisted usually took some extra time to ramp up, which I think is the same thing that's happening with my current twisted ni200.

I'm a little intrigued by titanium wire, but some of the stuff I've read so far has turned me off from it a bit. Haven't found any real "research" though.

 

[jackmormon]

Its worth the effort to learn how to do NI builds consistently. It took me 1 try for success with Kanthal. At least a month and probably 40 builds before I I hit consistency with NI. (Turned out my biggest problem was electrical stability in atomizers.)

Favorites to build with are 28 gauge hardened with the pliers mentioned above over the tempered and 26 gauge on an SX Mini. The 26 is really my favorite......Same coil for two weeks re-wicked 6 times without ANY coil distortion. It will even take a fairly aggressive scrubbing with a toothbrush