Does the MOD really Matter

[Credo]

What would those be? I'm curious, and would like to hear other options out there. Are you perhaps referring to DNA20 mods? If so, which ones?

The following come to my mind.

Whatever bucking regulators are used in BuzzPro, Saber Max, etc. (there are several chips and circuit variations out there). This class of regulator tends to need a HV setup of at least 5v (while there are some 3.7v exceptions that don't go as high). That means stacking batteries, possibly some sort of LiPo battery pack, or possibly using something like an 18650 5v NIMH cell.

Evolv LLC Units:
Darwin PCB (Similar to the DNA12) (Has display)
Kick 1 5-10 Watts [12 Watts with some atties] (No Display...uses POT to adjust)
DNA 12 5-12 watts (Can be helixed for 24 Watts - No display - POT Adjusted)
Kick 2 5-15 Watts (No Display...uses POT to adjust)
DNA 20D 5 - 20 Watts (Display Optional - POT or 2 Button adjusted)

Artisan vaping Units:
Crown V1 VV 3.4V - 5.6 Volts (Audio Feedback - Fire button click to adjust)
Crown V1 VW 5 - 10 Watts (Audio Feedback - Fire button click to adjust)
Crown V2.0 VW/VV - Similar specs to V1 but VV and VW on same chip (Audio Feedback - Fire button click to adjust)

All DNA, Kicks, and Crowns provide short circuit, heat, and low voltage battery protection.
These range in US prices from $30 to $45 new.

All of them can handle coils down to about 1.3ish Ohms or so, maybe lower depending on your 'unit' and MOD conductivity.

DNA 20 and Kick 2 can take coils down to 0.5ish Ohms.

I'm not sure if any of these use PWM or if they are all DC based...some might even be hybrids of PWM and DC.

They all have smooth signals like the Provari (provided they are in decent mod with good conductivity).

There are also imported Kicks these days with specs similar to the Kick 1. I have no idea how well these work but they do tend to cost about the same or less than a ShortStop or VapeSafe PTC fuse at typical vape shops these days, which I find truly odd.

Please don't get me wrong, a good Regulator alone doesn't make a good MOD. The whole package counts big time, and Provari delivers one of the best total packages on Earth.

 

[EddardinWinter]

What would those be? I'm curious, and would like to hear other options out there. Are you perhaps referring to DNA20 mods? If so, which ones?

The Semovar.

 

[PLANofMAN]

The Semovar.

I would have to agree here. The DNA20 chipset, while nice, lacks the physical safeguards the ProVari offers, above and beyond the digital safeguards. As for the Darwin mod itself, isn't it practically extinct?

The Semovar is really the only mod out there that is a "complete package" like the ProVari. A DNA20 modified REO would also fit the bill nicely. But with both of those options, you are paying more than a new ProVari would cost... (unless you live in Europe, then a Semovar would be the cheapest option).

 

[Ozwald]

As for the Darwin mod itself, isn't it practically extinct?

I just had to say I appreciate the irony there.

 

[Credo]

I would have to agree here. The DNA20 chipset, while nice, lacks the physical safeguards the ProVari offers, above and beyond the digital safeguards. As for the Darwin mod itself, isn't it practically extinct?

Not sure what you mean by Extinct.

Every run sells out within' a few days.
They're still being used daily.
They occasionally get upgrades.

I've used one daily and beat the mess out of it in salt water environments since 2011.

 

[PLANofMAN]

My bad. I looked at the Darwin Sub-forum and saw that exactly one new thread had been started this year. I didn't realize it was so popular or so widely available. How often do they make new batches?

 

[Credo]

My bad. I looked at the Darwin Sub-forum and saw that exactly one new thread had been started this year. I didn't realize it was so popular or so widely available. How often do they make new batches?

I got my Darwin and didn't think about needing another PV for over 2 years and haven't been on ECF much since then either.

Why did I get one? The form factor and the light weight. It's excellent for my lifestyle and tastes. Also, I had a 'chance' to get one, which was as rare as hen's teeth at the time.

Also, not everyone who buys Mods comes to ECF or joins threads.

Now it needs a battery pack and my Kicked Bolt bit the dust (The Bolt broke, while the 2 yo Kick is still going strong)...so I came back to ECF while pondering something else to vape till it's back on its legs. I was advised to wait a few weeks on sending the Darwin in for a tune-up...could be some upgrades in the works...otherwise I'd have gotten some batteries and would be vaping it right this second.

Yes, when I got the thing I KNEW it used a 2 year soldered in LiPo pack. It lasted longer than that.

As for how 'popular' Darwin Is/Was, or when the last run was, I have no idea. For all I know a 'run' may have been less than 10 units. I don't believe it was ever meant to be a Mod made on the production scale of the Provari. These days the Opus line is intended to fill the old Darwin niche; however, I would not be surprised if new Darwins aren't made from time to time, and they're probably sold before they are even put together.

If they are 'extinct', it's not because they won't still work as well as they did when brand New. Evolv is still there, and it's still supported.

 

[Schnarph]

I don't get it. The taste of vapor has much more to do with the delivery device. I can see a Boge carto in a tank beating an iClear30, but if you had an RDA or BFT (KayFun or similar) using degummed hemp fiber or Ao for wick, it would have easily beaten a Boge carto. Even well prepared cotton wick imparts less taste than a Boge carto. JMO, of course.

I own a Provari, and the fact that it does put out exactly the voltage it states is pretty nice. I'm also a fan of the Kick 2, it doesn't lie either and although I don't own a DNA20 mod I've seen the readings and they don't lie either. Considering the APV's available for this "test", I understand how the Provari seems to win (especially given the delivery devices). Try switching the regular iClear30 to the Provari, and the KirF tank + Boge carto to the MVP2... and try this test again.

 

[glassgal]

*edited my stream of conscious babble* Sorry.

 

[glassgal]

I don't get it. The taste of vapor has much more to do with the delivery device. I can see a Boge carto in a tank beating an iClear30, but if you had an RDA or BFT (KayFun or similar) using degummed hemp fiber or Ao for wick, it would have easily beaten a Boge carto. Even well prepared cotton wick imparts less taste than a Boge carto. JMO, of course.

I own a Provari, and the fact that it does put out exactly the voltage it states is pretty nice. I'm also a fan of the Kick 2, it doesn't lie either and although I don't own a DNA20 mod I've seen the readings and they don't lie either. Considering the APV's available for this "test", I understand how the Provari seems to win (especially given the delivery devices). Try switching the regular iClear30 to the Provari, and the KirF tank + Boge carto to the MVP2... and try this test again.

I've done that... Provari beats the MVP2 using the same Boge tank hands down. The Kir Fani is just a decoration that holds juice no better than any other tank. It's the boge in the middle that makes the difference. Does a boge carto beat a iclear30?

I don't have an iclear 30 yet to know, but does a boge carto beat a boge carto on a Provari vs MVP2? Oh heck yes. I do this test every single day about 1500x if my MVP2 hit counter is correct.

 

[Ref Minor]

But with both of those options, you are paying more than a new ProVari would cost... (unless you live in Europe, then a Semovar would be the cheapest option).

My wallet would like me to say perhaps better described as less expensive rather than cheaper.

*its still more expensive in EU than a ProVari is in the US, it's just that a Provari is $240 when you are in the EU (UK anyways)

 

[Thrasher]

If they are 'extinct', it's not because they won't still work as well as they did when brand New. Evolv is still there, and it's still supported.

the darwin is in fact extinct, while many made it out alive and run fine to this day, the amount of failed units returned for constant warranty repairs caused Evolv to cancel further production.. it got so bad you had to prove you were the original purchaser before he would even consider taking it in.
there is a faint rumor about something else coming out of Evolvs shop.... so we could always see a new mod from them someday.

still Evolv has to be credited with turning everything upside down releasing the first real VW when all we had were buzzpro and lavatube chipsets.

 

[Credo]

the darwin is in fact extinct, while many made it out alive and run fine to this day, the amount of failed units returned for constant warranty repairs caused Evolv to cancel further production.. it got so bad you had to prove you were the original purchaser before he would even consider taking it in.
there is a faint rumor about something else coming out of Evolvs shop.... so we could always see a new mod from them someday.

still Evolv has to be credited with turning everything upside down releasing the first real VW when all we had were buzzpro and lavatube chipsets.

Sounds like a Dave Small kind of story

For those that don't know the story...he was shipped and billed for bad parts in an attempt to sink his enterprise (Building a Macintosh Emulator that used legally purchased ROMS). Nothing was wrong with his designs or manufacturing process...but bad chips were sent to him and further shipments were refused until he'd paid for defective products. By the time he could prove this to win his money and credit back for further production of his products...the products were too obsolete to bother with.

It'd be interesting to know which Darwin component(s) failed, and if it was a design issue, or a bad batch of parts. The only major issue I've heard of from the Darwins were some of the recharge chips being bad. That's a very inexpensive part (at least in theory), and it can be sourced from multiple manufacturers and suppliers. No doubt it could get pretty labor intensive dropping in new ones...but...

As for the Warranty thing...I didn't know the Provari Warranty would transfer beyond the 'original' owner.

I've rarely seen any warranty that did not require proof of purchase...even if it's in the least...to determine the initial date of purchase.

Provari Extended Warranty
"The warranty is valid from the date of purchase by the original end-use purchaser. This extended warranty is non transferable and MUST be purchased at the time you purchase your device. (You cannot add the extended warranty at a later time.)"

Did Brandon offer to fix the Darwins or not? I can't imagine him refusing to service them (even if out of warranty for a reasonable cost).

 

[Ozwald]

As for the Warranty thing...I didn't know the Provari Warranty would transfer beyond the 'original' owner.

Technically it doesn't, but from what I've heard they don't really check. They stand behind their product & likely have the language in the warranty as a fail-safe.

 

[Credo]

Technically it doesn't, but from what I've heard they don't really check. They stand behind their product & likely have the language in the warranty as a fail-safe.

My Darwin was a first run. It had disclosed issues when I got it used. I emailed Drew and Brandon about it, and they said get it...they'd fix it and give me the remainder of the Warranty. They made it good...I used it over 2 years with no issue.

A couple weeks ago I emailed Brandon about a new battery pack. He said he'd be glad to put one in but recommends I wait a few weeks because he's re-engineering some things. This thing is WAY out of warranty.

Is that 'bad service'? I think not.

If people buy a 1 or more year old PV second hand that uses soft-pack LiPo type batteries, and are unwilling to pay a few bucks to have a new battery and possibly a 1/2 cent charger chip soldered onto a perfectly good board...than that's on them in my opinion...not Evolv.

I've never heard of Evolv not standing by their products...often even well beyond what most companies would put up with.

 

[Ozwald]

Technically it doesn't, but from what I've heard they don't really check. They stand behind their product & likely have the language in the warranty as a fail-safe.

My Darwin was a first run. It had disclosed issues when I got it used. I emailed Drew and Brandon about it, and they said get it...they'd fix it and give me the remainder of the Warranty. They made it good...I used it over 2 years with no issue.

A couple weeks ago I emailed Brandon about a new battery pack. He said he'd be glad to put one in but recommends I wait a few weeks because he's re-engineering some things. This thing is WAY out of warranty.

Is that 'bad service'? I think not.

If people buy a 1 or more year old PV second hand that uses soft-pack LiPo type batteries, and are unwilling to pay a few bucks to have a new battery and possibly a 1/2 cent charger chip soldered onto a perfectly good board...than that's on them in my opinion...not Evolv.

I've never heard of Evolv not standing by their products...often even well beyond what most companies would put up with.

I didn't say anything about Darwin, Drew, Brandon, bad service, other PV's or Evolv. I simply said that the Provari warranty technically is original owner only by the language in their Terms/Conditions, but in many cases they haven't bothered (or cared?) to check. So no, it doesn't technically transfer, to answer your question/statement.

 

[Credo]

Technically it doesn't, but from what I've heard they don't really check. They stand behind their product & likely have the language in the warranty as a fail-safe.

So you're saying if I sent in one of the older Provari units they would not even bother to check and see if it's under warranty? They'd just fix it at no charge? Someone who did NOT buy the extended service gets the same treatment as someone who did?

Does this mean people who BUY the extra warranty are being RIPPED OFF?

 

[Credo]

I didn't say anything about Darwin, Drew, Brandon, bad service, other PV's or Evolv. I simply said that the Provari warranty technically is original owner only by the language in their Terms/Conditions, but in many cases they haven't bothered (or cared?) to check. So no, it doesn't technically transfer, to answer your question/statement.

Apologies Ozwald,
My line of reason goes several posts back for multiple posters...not just specifically to your quoted material.

 

[Ozwald]

No, that is not what I said at all. If you're serious, go read their Terms & Conditions. If you're trolling go play in another sandbox. Honestly, I don't really care much either way.

 

[Credo]

No, that is not what I said at all. If you're serious, go read their Terms & Conditions. If you're trolling go play in another sandbox. Honestly, I don't really care much either way.

Again, I apologized for quoting you, my line of reasoning goes back over several posts by several people.

Trolling? I'm not the one implying that ProVape gives away free warranties while Evolv doesn't stand by their products.

More than once people tried to make it look like Evolv refused to service their products and honor their warranties.

It's simply not true.

I listed several exceptional regulating systems.
I also pointed out that the regulation circuits alone do not necessarily make a good all around MOD.

Out of ALL that information, someone felt it was necessary to pick the very first product of the lot...and Bash Darwins and Evolv.

Who is trolling?


There is nothing wrong with the Darwin's voltage/wattage regulator. Never has been.
Battery packs and charger chips? People stripping out threads? Yep...those things have happened, and to this day, they can still be fixed by Evolv.

I'm also at odds with someone's statement that Evolv's policy all along was not to request proof of purchase in the form of the original Invoice from Nhaler to verify the date the warranty began. That's normal practice, and to my knowledge that's how Evolve always dealt with it once those One Year Battery warranties started going out on the earliest runs of Darwins (for the first 12 months...no need to check, as every Darwin in the wild would by default be under warranty). The batteries were warranted for 1 year...the PV for 2. As that one year mark approached, it became imperative to start checking the purchase dates.

This is not a sign of 'things getting so bad'. It's a sign that the first runs of Darwins were getting older than one year, so you check the dates before promising an under full warranty fix.

It's pretty important to note, that from a parts cost perspective...there's a pretty big difference in the cost of replacement LiPo Battery packs (and custom bundling them to fit inside a Darwin case)...and the labor to install them, as opposed to fixing the ever so rare bad switch or something in a ProVari.

Those of us who purchased a LiPo based MOD well know the problems they can cause, as well as the benefits they can offer.