dot1ml - online eliquid calculator

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by NickIcon, Aug 28, 2013.

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  1. NickIcon

    NickIcon Full Member

    Feb 4, 2013
    Newcastle, UK
    I'd like to share a project I've been working on recently: dot1ml.com

    The short description is that it's (another) eliquid calculator. Of course I've tried to add my own twist to it so here's a quick list of the current main features:


    • Web-based - no software/app to install
    • Import/export eJuice Me Up recipe files
    • Tablet friendly
    • Save your recipes
    • Flavouring brand/name autocomplete (currently has limited data but expanding fast)
    • No account necessary to use the mixer for one-offs (even upload/download eJMU files)
    • BB code generator for including recipes in forum posts (currently has limited support)
    • Browse/search through all saved recipes
    • Make your own version of any recipe
    • Set your defaults to instantly tweak other peoples' recipes to your preferred PG/VG ratios, nic base etc
    • Unlimited ingredients
    • Display in ml or drops
    • Free and always will be

    It's not yet a complete product - there are quite a few more features planned.

    It's also still a very young project so I'd be grateful for any feedback and would love to know if you find it useful.

    Cheers,

    Nick
     
  2. KatyLoo

    KatyLoo Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 9, 2013
    Tulsa
    Wow! So far I am really impressed, but I couldn't figure out how to switch from milliliters to drops. Can't wait to try this out on my iPad.
     
  3. NickIcon

    NickIcon Full Member

    Feb 4, 2013
    Newcastle, UK
    Changing over to drops is available only for logged in users - if you create an account you'll be able to set your preferred unit of measure to drops as well as set how many drops make up 1ml. Once you've done that all of the measurements in the far right column of the mixer will always be displayed (to you) in drops.
     
  4. FACE MEAT

    FACE MEAT Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2013
    Costa Mesa, CA
    Looks awesome! Thanks!
     
  5. Screamin Eagle

    Screamin Eagle Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    Maryland
    One problem that I'm seeing is that if you take PG out completely it takes VG to 100%. When you start adding your water, sweetner, and flavoring it still takes it away from the PG side (sub 0%) and still leaves the VG at 100%. Once PG reaches 0% it should start taking away from the VG.
     
  6. NickIcon

    NickIcon Full Member

    Feb 4, 2013
    Newcastle, UK
    @ScreaminEagle - I think what you are seeing is the intended behaviour.

    Dot1ml doesn't natively support PG/VG free ingredients (although the same end results can be achieved*) so each ingredient is considered being constituted of PG and VG - nothing else.

    The PG to VG ratio for each ingredient can be adjusted by revealing the ingredient options (button with a cog icon to the left of each ingredient row) than changing the PG/VG ratio as required.

    As most flavourings are PG based, ingredients default to a PG/VG ratio of 100/0. Therefore when you add an ingredient to a recipe with a target ratio of all VG, no PG (ie: 0/100) you will need to use a flavouring that doesn't contain any PG at all. You should be able to tell that something's wrong when you get negative numbers in the mixer (the rows affected should also turn red). As you can probably tell by my ramblings, I haven't yet found a concise way of providing a useful warning message but I do intend to work on a way of providing suggestions as to how negative value problems can be resolved.

    If you do have VG based flavourings then you can adjust their individual PG/VG ratios to 0/100 instead of 100/0: it should then be possible to achieve a 0/100 liquid. Note that the your nic base is treated just like any other ingredient in that respect - you can adjust its PG/VG ratio like any other ingredient.

    Hope I understood the problem correctly and that that all makes sense.

    * Footnote: If you use PG/VG-free ingredients then you can simulate the same behaviour as the "flavor zero PG/VG" option in eJuice Me Up by setting that ingredient's PG/VG ratio to the same ratio as the target liquid. Try importing an eJMU .rec file containing a zero PG/VG ingredient to see an example.
     
  7. EmeraldLeo1982

    EmeraldLeo1982 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 8, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma
    I was gonna mention the option for additives but it seems that's covered now hah. I'd like to see a feature for "Oops not enough flavor or VG in my mix, what will my mixture be after I add 6 more drops of VG and 3 drops of Flavor" kinda thing..a Juice Doctor option persay.

    I love how it searches the ingredient name from the database though. I type in FW and it shows all the flavor west then I put in Madagascar Va... and the madagascar vanilla flavor pops up all nicely formatted for my lazy butt.

    I also like the fact that it's web based so it's OS independent.
     
  8. Screamin Eagle

    Screamin Eagle Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    Maryland
    Well you DID ask for feedback...:laugh:


    Ok, I get the PG in flavoring. Most LorAnn flavorings (which is what I use mostly) are PG based. So then shouldn't your calculator add to the 0% PG that I started with and take away from the VG percentage of the over all percentage ratio. But this is an arbitrary number I understand.
    What isn't an arbitrary number is the one the calculator gives for the mix. If your base line amount is 10ml. And your using 100% VG as a bace. Then the calculator is telling you to put 10ml of VG in your mix no matter what % of water or flavoring you add.
    For instance. I ran this through it:

    Bace = 0 PG/100 VG
    Nicotine = 0 mg/ml (I don't use any)
    Total amount to be made = 10ml
    Water added = 15%
    Flavoring added = 10%

    The calculator is telling me:

    PG = -25% -2.50ml
    VG = 100% 10.00ml
    Water = 15% 1.50ml
    Flavoring = 10% 1.00ml

    If I add what it's telling me to "add" I'm going to wind up with 12.50ml. Now "I" know I need to take the 2.50ml away from the VG, but if someone who is just braking into the DIY mixing game gets on it it is just going to confuse them.
    Besides, if I have to do my own calculations after running my numbers through your calculator why would I need your calculator?

    Don't get me wrong here. Your on the right track and it looks great for starters. But it needs to be useable by everyone, not just those who use PG/VG mix or put Nicotine in their juices.
    I wouldn't use this calculator in it present form when there are others out there that do what I need them to do.
    Make this calculator a little more user friendly and your going to give this comunity another great tool to use.

    P.S. My intention here is to give you feedback in order to help you make this better. I hope you don't view this as me just trying to bash your creation. That is NOT my intention.

    Edit:
    Ok, I just figgured out what your were saying about changing the PG/VG ratios in the flavorings themselves. The calculations now work out, but the though process is counter intuitive. I know my flavoring is a PG base. But in order to get the correct mix ratios to show up I have to tell the calculator that it's a VG base. That's where the confusion is going to play into it.
     
  9. Vapolith

    Vapolith Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nice! Looks great!
     
  10. NickIcon

    NickIcon Full Member

    Feb 4, 2013
    Newcastle, UK
    ...and I'm grateful for it! :) It's interesting to see how different people get on with the mixer and I'm already getting a good idea of the features I need to think about for the future.

    To illustrate how to get the results you were after I made a quick example recipe: Nick's example of a VG-only recipe | dot1ml (made this before I saw your last edit but thought it might be useful for others)

    I just noticed you said "I know my flavoring is a PG base": if you are using a PG based flavouring then it is not possible to make a pure VG liquid. It does make me think that I could add a button that makes a recipe with as little PG in it as possible. To do this at the moment you would need to make up your recipe as you have then adjust the target eliquid PG/VG ratio until the negative PG value gets to zero. Pro tip: use the +/- or up/down arrow keys when inside the PG/VG fields to adjust the ratio in increments of 1 (this should work in all numeric fields).

    I realise the way that dot1ml works won't initially be ideal for every mixer - I've set the defaults to what I hope will make the process simple for the majority of users. If/when dot1ml gets a larger user base it should become easier to judge what will be more useful for most users and adjust settings and defaults accordingly - not to mention adding new features.

    Thanks for taking the time to explain how you got on.
     
  11. NickIcon

    NickIcon Full Member

    Feb 4, 2013
    Newcastle, UK
    That's one for the maybe-if-I-have-time-in-the-future list I'm afraid...

    That was exactly the idea (because I'm a lazy bugger too). In fact, just typing in "fw mad" should bring up Flavor West Madagascar Vanilla. :D
     
  12. Screamin Eagle

    Screamin Eagle Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    Maryland
    I am SO glad you said that.
    I am well aware that if your adding a PG based flavoring that you can't have a 100% VG mix AS AN END RESULT. But you CAN have a 100% VG starting base. That's what a good calculator does. It takes all your base lines and gives you an end result.
    That's why I said that it would be nice if your PG/VG scale floated.
    In other words, you might start out with a 100% VG base, but if you add 15% water (which should be considered as PG), and let's say 8% of a PG based flavoring. Your starting scale (0% PG/100% VG) would "go with the flow" and read 23% PG/77% VG. Or you can fix the starting baseline at 0% PG/ 100%VG and put a seprate spot near the bottom of the calculator for a "final mix ratio" that would read the 23% PG/77% VG.
    If this is all your ingredients your calculator should make the "calculation" that you will need 7.7ml of VG, 1.5ml of water, and .8ml of flavoring. This all based on a 10ml mix. The PG shouldn't even factor in in the mix section of the calculator because you already have it listed as water and flavoring. For a newbie or novice that sub 0% is going to be very confusing. And lets face it, most of the people who would use this calculator are going to be newbies or novice. I would be one of them.

    I love the scrolling flavoring list, the infinite flavor adding, and it being web based. You got it right there. Fix the confusion issue and this could be everyones next go to calculator.
     
  13. NickIcon

    NickIcon Full Member

    Feb 4, 2013
    Newcastle, UK
    Ah right - I get what you're saying now (finally! :oops:)

    The behaviour you're describing does sound really useful for some - definitely something I'll be trying to work in in some form or another. Auto-adjusting the target PG/VG ratio wouldn't eliminate all negative-value scenarios but would provide an easy way of correcting most of them.

    With feedback over time I'll be able to make a better informed decision as to whether this should be the default behaviour or not.
     
  14. Screamin Eagle

    Screamin Eagle Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    Maryland
    Great! Now we have that portion strightened out.

    I think I've been taking the "target eliquid" portion of your calculator a bit wrong. Now I'm beginning to see what your meaning by a "target" mix ratio (PG/VG). Which would be good for profesional mixers and veteran mixers who want to keep a set number ratio and be able to adjust the ingredients to meet the numbers.
    I was looking at it from a stand point of making my own mixes and not worring about the end ratio. More or less a simplistic form.

    NOW it's all making sense.

    But it would be nice to have a simple calculator for biginners that just asks what base your starting with ( 100% PG, 100% VG, 50/50 mix, or whatever). Because these numbers would be allowed to vary. Then your target levels would be your desired nic. level and your total volume (10ml, 15ml, 30ml...ect.) because these numbers shouldn't be allowed to vary.
    Then as you add your ingerdients (water, flavoring) it should recognise that water is (because of it's similar viscosity) and list it as PG while adjusting the final ratio (which for novice mixers is simply a referance). Then as you add your flavoring it should ask what base the flavoring (PG or VG) and adjust the ratios accordingly.
    If your using a 100% VG base your ratios of PG in the recipe section of the calculator should read 0 and not go higher or lower. Because this is the section that is telling the mixer what amounts of his/her ingredient to add in order to achieve the desired nic level and end volume. It's dividing all the ingredients up, and we all know what happends when you try to divide by sub zero numbers. :evil:
    If you start with 100% VG and add water or flavoring or a PG based nic solution the calculator should reconise that your not using PG in your base and take whatever volume your adding from the VG percentage.
    This would make a calculator that is very user friendly and could be used by everyone.
    Expert mixers could view that their ingredient calculations are not adding up to the PG/VG ratio that they want and adjust their ingredients from there.
    Novice users (who are just trying to get a desent mix and don't care about the final ratio) would not have to wounder why they are getting a sub zero percentage and the recipe is telling them to take whatever ML of PG out of their mix when they know they are not using any PG in their mix other then what is already listed in the flavoring, nic. solution, and water.
    That's the stand point that I was looking at it from.

    If I knew how to code, this is what I would shoot for.

    Anywho, now that I'm seeing it from another perspective it IS a really nice calculator.
     
  15. Screamin Eagle

    Screamin Eagle Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    Maryland
    Ok, I looked at the sample 100% VG recipe you did. Then I did my own mirroring your numbers and this is what came up. Notice the sub zero percentages that are showing up in my rendition as opposed to yours.
    Also notice that my VG percentage stays at 100% where as in your rendition it has changed to 75%.


    Screen Shot.jpg
     
  16. NickIcon

    NickIcon Full Member

    Feb 4, 2013
    Newcastle, UK
    Phew - I think we're making sense to each other now! :D

    It's been great to get a different perspective on how you would expect the mixer to work. Time will tell exactly how I end up trying to make it easier to use for novices and veterans alike but I've now got a good few ideas to work on which should address the issues that you've had - will post back here as and when updates are implemented.

    I can't see the image you posted - could you download & post the eJuice Me Up file or save the recipe then link to it?
     
  17. Screamin Eagle

    Screamin Eagle Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    Maryland
    Good, Great, OUTSTANDING! This is what I had intended when I started to enguage you on this thread. I can't wait to see some of the updates.

    I know the image is small in my last post, but you should be able to click on the picture and to inlarge it some. If that still doesn't work then I just joined the calculator and saved a recipe "Test recipe using 100% VG base" to the calculator's board. This shows the sub zero percentages for the PG in the recipe section.
     
  18. NickIcon

    NickIcon Full Member

    Feb 4, 2013
    Newcastle, UK
    The image works now for some reason!

    For illustrative purposes, I've made a copy of your recipe with the required adjustments to validate it: Nick's Test recipe using 100% VG Base | dot1ml. This is what you should do to make your juice as high in VG as possible, using some PG based ingredients: add your ingredients then adjust the target PG/VG ratio as far it as it will go without creating negative amounts.

    The difference with the previous recipe I posted (Nick's example of a VG-only recipe | dot1ml) is that I had changed the PG/VG ratio of the ingredients rather than altering my targets. This previous example is how you should currently go about making a valid recipe with VG based ingredients to make a true VG-only juice.

    A "learning mode" with lots of tooltips/help/explanations is creeping up my priority list! :)
     
  19. NickIcon

    NickIcon Full Member

    Feb 4, 2013
    Newcastle, UK
    PS - for a sneak preview of how the learning mode is going to be integrated try clicking on the gold stars next to some recipe names.
     
  20. Screamin Eagle

    Screamin Eagle Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    Maryland

    The difference with the previous recipe I posted (Nick's example of a VG-only recipe | dot1ml) is that I had changed the PG/VG ratio of the ingredients rather than altering my targets. This previous example is how you should currently go about making a valid recipe with VG based ingredients to make a true VG-only juice.


    Ahhh okay, I see what you did there. Yeah, after actually getting to play with your calculator I was able to figgure this out.
    Changing the comopsition of the ingredients (what you did in the first test example) is where I said it was counter intuitive. I know my flavoring is PG based. Having to make the calculator lie and say it's VG is just way too confusing for a novice.
    Now let me point out what "I see" as the difference between a novice and an expert.

    Expert:
    Has both PG and VG bases. Has nicotine in both PG and VG bases. Has flavorings in both PG and VG bases. Has the knowledge and experience to minipulate the ingredients (with their different bases) to achieve their desired final ratio (PG/VG).

    Novice:
    Has one base (maybe both). Has one bottle of nicotine (normaly in PG base). Uses whatever flavorings they can get when they order from somewhere (normaly in PG based). Uses the ingredients they have on hand to make mixes in whatever final ratio gets them close.

    Having a floating "final ratio" and taking out the fixed "target ratio" will work for both.
    An expert will be able to look at it as they go and make adjustments so this final ratio is right where they want it to be. They already know what ratio they want to achive.
    The novice can insert what ingrediants they have on hand and let the calculator tell them what the final ratio will be.
    This should eliminate the negitive numbers comming up and confusing the novice.
    The only "target raitos" should be the nic. and total volume. These should never change as you calculate the mix. The final ratio can be flexable and should be allowed to change.

    Now "in my mind" the perfect calculator would allow me to enter what volume I wish to mix (3ml, 6ml, 10ml, 15ml ...), the end nicotine ratio I wish to achieve (both volume and nic ratio would be constants), the bases I'm working with (100% vg base (or 100% PG, or 50/50 or whatever)),base nic. (PG or VG), base flavoring (PG or VG), water (also considered PG by vertue of it's vicosity).
    The calculator would take all this into consideration as I enter my persentages. It would recognise that, if I'm using a 100% VG base, I am not using a PG base , that I'm only adding PG by vertue of the ingerdients and adjust the VG level as the values are entered.
    If I use a different base (say 50/50) the calculator would recognise that I have some PG as a base and adjust that level acordingly).

    As long as I have PG in my base liquid, and are adding PG based ingredients, it should take the same amount away from my PG base ratio. Once the base ratio hits 0 that calculator should recognise this and start taking volume from the VG side because you can't have more then 100% of your target volume. Even though your total "ratio" will float, your total "volume" should remain a constant.

    For the most part, in recipes, many of the ingredients can't (or won't) change. The only flexable percentages are your bace liquids (PG or VG). These are what you have to take away from in order to allow the rest of the ingrediants to be added.

    Anywho that would be "my" ideal calculator. This is your baby.
     
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