Doubts over the safety of NET E-liquids

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firephly

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The "Santa Fe Tobacco " company is an American Indian company and I believe they have different regulations. Other words..they don't have to abide by the same laws as other companies. They have exemptions because they are AI.

I just want to know where these NET juice suppliers get their leaves from ,so I can research the companies who actually grow the leaves.

Yes they can be making the juice here in the USA and call it "100% made in the USA" and get away with it even if their leaves come from abroad.

Different pesticides (some are the same for sure) are used in different countries .

So..my question to the NET juice makers is ...where do you buy/get the tobacco leaves from ?



I haven't found any evidence that American Spirit is owned by Native Americans.
Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the American Spirit website (you have to log in to look)
"The Purity Residue Clean (PRC) program uses cultivation practices that leave no detectible residues of agricultural chemicals on the cured tobacco."

"The small, independent farmers who follow the rigid guidelines of our PRC and Organic growing programs are dedicated to their craft. Following the farming techniques and best practices developed over generations, our growers ensure that we have only the highest quality, whole leaf, natural tobacco from which to make Natural American Spirit cigarettes and Roll-Your-Own. It’s a relationship that helps them to continue supporting their families while helping to protect the environment."


From the parent company, Santa Fe Natural Tobacco:

"What is organic?
In lay terms, it means growing and producing tobacco as the Native Americans did for centuries.

That's right. No chemicals. And using only what Mother Nature provides. That's...organic.

Our technical definition of Organic is the same as any other agricultural product in the United States according to the USDA’s National Organic Program (NOP). If a product is labeled organic, such as our tobacco, it followed the NOP’s approved growing techniques.

These practices bring together biological, cultivation, and mechanical practices to create a system that recycles resources, promotes balance and conserves the land’s biodiversity. Synthetic fertilizers, sewage sludge, irradiation, and genetic engineering may not be used.

The NOP extends beyond the field and into our manufacturing process. We store our organic tobacco in a separate facility from our other tobacco. Our machines and facilities are scrubbed and cleaned before organic tobacco enters the system to prevent any contamination.

Growing organic may start as a commitment, but it soon becomes a way of life. And one we rather enjoy.

What is PRC?
Before our foray into organic tobacco, we started our Purity Residue Clean (PRC) program to grow tobacco. Farmers in the program must follow a strict regimen and are only allowed the use of chemicals that don’t leave behind detectable residue once the tobacco is cured.

Being enrolled in the PRC program also promotes the sound cultivation and farming practices prescribed by SFNTC. Farmers must follow guidelines such as leaving buffer strips of land between PRC and conventional crops, guaranteeing that water runoff from non-PRC crops doesn’t come in contact with PRC crops to avoid cross-contamination.

And it’s not just tobacco that these chemicals affect; they can remain in the land itself for years. Just ask our PRC farmer Richard W., whose tobacco tested positive for a banned chemical. Richard dug deep in his records and discovered the last time the reported substance was used on his fields was seven years before. Seven years.

Our growing programs are a commitment — from the farmers, to the earth. "
 
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Jerms

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Gerick

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"Currently, two-thirds of the world's tobacco is grown in just four countries: China, India, Brazil, and the United States."

This is why I want to know where they buy their leaves from .

Brazil is trying to eliminate pesticides but isn't there as of yet ,but have made great strides .

Plus I don't believe for a one second that China or India are even trying hard to eliminate pesticides and would never want any juice where the leaves came from these countries.

That's just me. :D
 
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Gerick

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firephly

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I found this so that's why I said it.

Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company Foundation

Interesting, it doesn't say, maybe they are. Or maybe they contribute to Native organizations to mitigate their using of Native images to promote their product, idk...

Tobacco is a sacred plant in many Native cultures, but it wasn't smoked often and if it was smoked it was only ceremoniously and generally mixed with other herbs prior to smoking. Usually it was burned without smoking or used without burning, so it would seem like making it into cigarettes would not be a very Native usage, but then that doesn't mean the company wasn't started by natives....

I used to smoke American Spirits and they do taste a whole lot better than a Marlboro or Camel which taste chemical to me. But they all taste bad now that I'm used to vaping..

I have yet to see the certified organic label on any tobacco or nicotine product though
http://www.organic.org/image.php?image=assets/article_images/201.gif
 
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Jerms

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Where exactly does it say they get /buy their tobacco leaves ?

I might have missed it and still looking.

Whoops, I guess NETcom doesn't say specifically what brand is used on each one. I'm sure Clay would tell you if he asked. For example, H+ Yellow Mane is extracted from a ACID Blondie cigar and BA Mango Vanilla is Holger Danske pipe tobacco.

For MVJ, they say what cigar is used in the cigar line, and under the descriptions in the regular NET line they'll often mention where the tobacco is from; like My Hero is made from a locally grown Connecticut broad leaf tobacco.
 

Gerick

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Interesting, it doesn't say, maybe they are. Or maybe they contribute to Native organizations to mitigate their using of Native images to promote their product, idk...

Tobacco is a sacred plant in many Native cultures, but it wasn't smoked often and if it was smoked it was only ceremoniously and generally mixed with other herbs prior to smoking. Usually it was burned without smoking or used without burning, so it would seem like making it into cigarettes would not be a very Native usage, but then that doesn't mean the company wasn't started by natives....

I used to smoke American Spirits and they do taste a whole lot better than a Marlboro or Camel which taste chemical to me. But they all taste bad now that I'm used to vaping..

I have yet to see the certified organic label on any tobacco or nicotine product though
http://www.organic.org/image.php?image=assets/article_images/201.gif

UGH..I tried Spirit and they wwere horrible. One drag and dumped it !

I do/did love my red marlboros and have tried the black marlboros right before I quit and enjoyed them more than the reds.
 

firephly

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UGH..I tried Spirit and they wwere horrible. One drag and dumped it !

I do/did love my red marlboros and have tried the black marlboros right before I quit and enjoyed them more than the reds.

I smoked Marlboros for years then switched to American Spirit, at first they tasted weird but after a while I liked them and thought everything with chemicals was nasty,now I find them all kind of gross...
I fell off the wagon a couple of time with my vaping (due to frustration with equipment and finding a good e juice) and was disappointed in how gross the regular cigs smelled and tasted...just goes to show you get to like what you're used to having sometimes.
 

fabricator4

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If these fail, permission may be granted by the certifier to apply botanical or other nonpersistent pest controls under restricted conditions. Botanicals are derived from plants and are broken down quickly by oxygen and sunlight.

You mean, like nicotine? :lol:

Oh the irony. Nicotine was banned for use as a pesticide years ago because of it's supposed toxicity and the fact that it's addictive. It was usually sprayed direct at about 10mg/ml, suspended in PG. Actually that's not so different from the stuff I inhale at the rate of about 3-5ml per day. The fact that it's a natural biodegradable insecticide was completely overlooked. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater - instead of educating and improving methods of using it, it was far easier to regulate it out of existence in every developed country on the planet.

Now, we possibly have poisonous and non-biodegradable pesticides in our NET E-liquids (and tobacco of course).
 

firephly

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You mean, like nicotine? :lol:

Oh the irony. Nicotine was banned for use as a pesticide years ago because of it's supposed toxicity and the fact that it's addictive. It was usually sprayed direct at about 10mg/ml, suspended in PG. Actually that's not so different from the stuff I inhale at the rate of about 3-5ml per day. The fact that it's a natural biodegradable insecticide was completely overlooked. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater - instead of educating and improving methods of using it, it was far easier to regulate it out of existence in every developed country on the planet.

Now, we possibly have poisonous and non-biodegradable pesticides in our NET E-liquids (and tobacco of course).

I had a bad aphid problem and I soaked some cig butts in water, strained it, sprayed it on the plants..no more aphids.
 

fabricator4

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So I guess maybe the answer then is to find a NET organic version, is there a supplier who has that?


True, that would eliminate the issues of pesticides, however the paper also points out that the compound that produced the negative results could be from cured tobacco compared to unprocessed.

Again, common sense seems to be possibly pointing to the presence of pesticides, but I don't believe we should be thinking of even organic NETS as being completely safe at this time. Someone would have to do a test with another series of NETS, and draw direct correlations between the results for cytotoxicology tests and the presence of pesticides.
 
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Racehorse

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What I would like to know where do these NET suppliers get their tobacco leaves and
if they were treated with pesticides.

Many DIYers making their own NETs might need to know that as well I guess, i.e. the origin of their leaves, or pipe tobacco, RYO tobacco, or cigar that they are using to make their NETs.

It certainly bears looking into, esp. for those who really want to vape as super duper safely as possible.

Yes, we are all gonna die, and yes, we once smoked blah blah blah but some of us (including me) felt that when we turned the corner, we wanted to be extra kind to our already somewhat damaged lungs. There is certainly no reason why some people shouldn't feel that way.......or the other way, either. :)

I think the more choices we have, in making decisions, the better.
 

fabricator4

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The minute we are born, our bodies begin to die from the world and it's environment around us.

Pick your poison.

Yep, as a smoker I used to say the exact same thing.

"Gotta die of something"
"Life is a terminal disease"
"Could get run over by a bus tomorrow"
"Might as well enjoy it..."

So why do we give up smoking and start vaping? Because it's cheaper? Most of us spend more on vaping in the first six months than we did on cigarettes. I've only managed to break even this month because I started rebuilding and DIY at about week 2.

For health reasons then? If that's the case there's no point burying our heads in the sand when possible issues are raised. At the end of the day if we get safer NETs, that would be a good thing.
 

Racehorse

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I had a bad aphid problem and I soaked some cig butts in water, strained it, sprayed it on the plants..no more aphids.

That is an old gardener's trick. NICOTINE is deadly to most bugs. That is because nicotine is a poison.

NETs or no NETs, you drop eliquid containing nicotine on a bug and it dies quickly. Has nothing to do with it being NET or not.
 

Racehorse

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Yep, as a smoker I used to say the exact same thing.

"Gotta die of something"
"Life is a terminal disease"
"Could get run over by a bus tomorrow"
"Might as well enjoy it...".

.....wow, these are also the EXACT excuses given by just about everybody I've offered to lend a vape kit to so they can quit smoking...and who turned me down! :laugh:

Once you look into the psychology of these statements, it is just part of the "justification" the mind must go thru in order to continue with an addiction...or anything somebody doesn't want to give up (whether it be an addiction, a bad relationship, or whatever). Pretty much all addictions have similar statements in their repertoire of one-liners.

I'm not saying that to offend anyone, I just believe in keeping it real and to do that you have to be honest with "yourself".

Being dishonest with myself is what allowed me to continue to smoke for 25 years....I was an addict making a lot of excuses and trying to believe that it would not catch up with me.
 

Vash

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I love my NETS and they have become my ADV .If we can find the best source for the cleanest tobaccos then Im all for that :)
I will email company whos brand I have been using to see what they say about their growing process and I will let everyone know what they say .

If any one finds a good source for organic leaves or blends then please let me know :)
 

Intervap

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I'm not qualified to discuss this sort of study (I actually had to look up what cytotoxic meant LOL) but I've always been curious on how NETs compared to "typical" eliquid and cigarettes. Obviously they are going to be better than cigarettes, but by how much?
I don't vape NETs (although I do want to give them a shot), this is just pure curiosity :D
Very interesting study though, I'll have to give it a full read later.
 
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