E-Cigarettes, Miracle or Menace? BBC Horizon...

[crxess]

I would be all for regulation if FDA actually would spend all this money and time to provide high-quality research of all vaping component (flavors for example). Then tell us what's safe and what is not.

You would actually be All for a Single Company having to Hand the FDA - BILLIONS of DOLLARS to Confirm THAT ONE COMPANY is IN COMPLIANCE with Ambiguous Regulations NOT DEFINING WHAT IS OR IS NOT SAFE?

OMG, I do not need this kind of Government assistance.

Yes this Exact 30ml Bottle of XXX e-liquid with 6% Nicotine is Safe to use and meets FDA Approval..................$7695.95 Plus State/County/Local Additional Taxes please


FDA - Non-disclosed cost of Evaluating a PMTA, After all cost involving preparation or All Required documents................up to 5000 Hours
Base your minimum Fee(Hours only) Minus Testing/Verification Expenses on any combination of Persons involved and their hours to total 5000 hours

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/FDA-Salaries-E40366.htm

Now Multiply - MAXIMUM POSSIBILITIES for the Company with, According to FDA qualifications - Several Hundred Products (actually 50 or so in various Strengths and pg/vg combinations)

 

[Dudeus Nordicus]

I would be all for regulation if FDA actually would spend all this money and time to provide high-quality research of all vaping component (flavors for example). Then tell us what's safe and what is not.

Right. Research is research and it's meant to help the humanity to understand issues better.

What DC2 seemed to worry about was the unfortunate American method of gov't/FDA regulating through financial strangulation using unnecessary testing as the tool.

The rational option is of course to permit already approved (GRAS) ingredients, especially when they are proving so important against the deadly smoking epidemic. No artificial obstacles, unless the gov't/FDA can prove something is harmful and genuinely needs regulating. We know that the expensive testing requirements in the USA are nothing but barriers to entry and ultimately market manipulation.

However continued research into these common ingredients and whatever else deserves to be in our e-liquid is simply common sense since they will be used by millions upon millions of people in a relatively new manner, through vaping. And I'm not talking about the kind of private university "research" with a paymaster expecting certain results delivered, but the old school publically funded research that without better subjects tends to wander off and study "the effects of heavy metal music on the early gill development of nocturnal freshwater fish during solar eclipses"...

 

[Telmos]

You would actually be All for a Single Company having to Hand the FDA - BILLIONS of DOLLARS to Confirm THAT ONE COMPANY is IN COMPLIANCE with Ambiguous Regulations NOT DEFINING WHAT IS OR IS NOT SAFE?

OMG, I do not need this kind of Government assistance.

Yes this Exact 30ml Bottle of XXX E-liquid with 6% Nicotine is Safe to use and meets FDA Approval..................$7695.95 Plus State/County/Local Additional Taxes please

I was thinking of more along the lines of not a ready product, but safe components to use in it. Similar to how there is an evaluation criteria for allowed and prohibited substances, methods, and ingredients for something to be considered organic.

Example:
- Nonsynthetic substances prohibited for use in organic crop production.
- Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic livestock production.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Massive innovation....no.....massive advancement....yes. Since vaping really took off there have been maybe 3 innovations; the clearomizer, VV/VW, and temp control. Other than those 3 things, everything else has just been different ways to do the same thing focusing on more power and bigger clouds, I wouldn't call that innovation.

Every industry has a system of checks and balances, our has none right now. Does Joe Blow want to create a juice line in his old micro brew setup, sure, go ahead. Is it okay for a company to create a device that can generate 500 watts for the ultimate clouds, okay. Do resellers think it is okay to re-wrap and advertise 50 amp batteries to fool people into a sense of security that isn't there, yep. This is just a few examples of our inability to police ourselves, greed is a powerful motivator. Is this the majority of the industry, no, but it is enough of it to be a problem.

I agree! We all should have devices restricted and locked down to 1 watt.

 

[mostlyclassics]

We do know that vaping is almost entirely harmless over the course of several years. The only thing we cannot yet know is its effect over decades.

We actually have a sort-of proxy as to long-term effects of inhaling PG.

For several decades, PG was pumped throughout hospital ventilation systems, from the 1940's until PG was replaced by micro-pore filters in the 1970's-1980's. Operating theaters and natal rooms got especially heavy doses because of its germicidal properties.

I have to think that there was a large cohort of surgeons, OR nurses and natal nurses who spent their entire professional lives (40 hours per week or more) in an atmosphere practically saturated with PG.

I wonder if there's any way to compare this cohort with a) the contemporary general population and b) a contemporary population of never-smokers.

 

[crxess]

I was thinking of more along the lines of not a ready product, but safe components to use in it. Similar to how there is an evaluation criteria for allowed and prohibited substances, methods, and ingredients for something to be considered organic.

Example:
- Nonsynthetic substances prohibited for use in organic crop production.
- Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic livestock production.

All I can attempt to convey is this is better handled Under Science based Guidelines CLEARLY NOT DEFINED within the CTP PMTA agenda.

seeking to First regulate, then Hunt for a possibility of just maybe under such conditions..............ETC........ is Wrong.

The CTP Has Deliberately(with BT) written Requirements with total ambiguity as to Acceptable Standards for Compliance.

am·bi·gu·i·ty
ˌambəˈɡyo͞owədē/
noun
noun: ambiguity; plural noun: ambiguities
uncertainty or inexactness of meaning in language.
"we can detect no ambiguity in this section of the Act"
synonyms: vagueness, obscurity, abstruseness, doubtfulness, uncertainty;More
formaldubiety;
ambivalence, equivocation, double meaning
"the ambiguity of the rule made it impossible to follow"
a lack of decisiveness or commitment resulting from a failure to make a choice between alternatives.

 

[Telmos]

I think the lesson of is that everything should be done in moderation, because repeatedly exposing yourself to the safe elements or stresses is just something our body was not built for. Too much exercise is bad for you, too much sleep is bad for you and too much fruit is bad fro you (85grams of apple seeds has enough cyanide to kill a grown man!)

 

[mostlyclassics]

I would be all for regulation if FDA actually would spend all this money and time to provide high-quality research of all vaping component (flavors for example). Then tell us what's safe and what is not.

The FDA doesn't test anything. All they do is set testing standards and such (though not, apparently, in the case of these Deeming Regulations, which have no standards down on paper). Then the applicant provides all the testing, etc., at their expense.

 

[crxess]

I think the lesson of is that everything should be done in moderation, because repeatedly exposing yourself to the safe elements or stresses is just something our body was not built for. Too much exercise is bad for you, too much sleep is bad for you and too much fruit is bad fro you (85grams of apple seeds has enough cyanide to kill a grown man!)

You are starting to get it. Advise through Science, not through Over Burdening Regulatory control .

 

[Coldrake]

I would be all for regulation if FDA actually would spend all this money and time to provide high-quality research of all vaping component (flavors for example). Then tell us what's safe and what is not.

I wouldn't trust the FDA to tell me what is safe and what is not if you put a loaded gun to my head.

 

[Hitmetwice]

What I WAS surprised about was the high success rate in the other alternative therapy group.

After the interview 9 out of 10 went out for a smoke! Who knows?
At least the vapers had/have somthin' to fall back on. Cheers.

 

[orion7319]

So I was doing it right

yet it still didn't work for me

It was real hard for me when I got down to a pack a day. Still craved them the entire year. I used to eat certs all the time, I actually managed to break one of my molars in half on one of them. Quitting on ecigs wasn't easy either back in 08, all we had were cigalikes and the 510 atties with the aquarium foam in the tips. When the bouge cartos came out, things started to become better. The ego tanks were probably the biggest turning point IMOP (even though they leaked like crazy) Once those came out, I knew I wouldn't resort to cigs again.

 

[orion7319]

As far as airway irritation goes, I know my own airways feel much better to me than when I smoked or even compared to when I wasn't a smoker. Remembering back to my teenage, non-smoking self, I frequently had mucus issues, mostly running down my throat. I would have to make sure I always had tissues with me. When I started smoking it only got worse. Since I quit smoking and took up vaping almost 5 years ago, that all went away. Probably because of the drying effects of the PG. I don't miss the constant throat irritation and having to cough phlegm up!

One of the biggest differences I have noticed is that I haven't had a bout of bronchitis since I started vaping. I smoked for 17 years and had over 25 bouts of bronchitis during that time. I only get the once a year sinus infection now.

 

[orion7319]

I would be all for regulation if FDA actually would spend all this money and time to provide high-quality research of all vaping component (flavors for example). Then tell us what's safe and what is not.

You know, if we actually had a responsible govt it would be reasonable to expect them to invest lots of money into research into any and all avenues that could actually reduce cancer rates, including ecigs.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

You know, if we actually had a responsible govt it would be reasonable to expect them to invest lots of money into research into any and all avenues that could actually reduce cancer rates, including ecigs.

Please quit what you are doing. Don't tell me anything more, and run for the White House. You've got my vote!

 

[Telmos]

Lol, @orion7319 don't quit your day job just yet. As we come to learn the electoral system, you realize that neither of the votes of US citizens really matter.

 

[7sixtwo]

Lol, @orion7319 don't quit your day job just yet. As we come to learn the electoral system, you realize that neither of the votes of US citizens really matter.

I want to object to that, but I really can't anymore. Who the hell voted for Mitch Zeller?

 

[orion7319]

Please quit what you are doing. Don't tell me anything more, and run for the White House. You've got my vote!

Now that's a funny thought! That made me laugh!

 

[orion7319]

Lol, @orion7319 don't quit your day job just yet. As we come to learn the electoral system, you realize that neither of the votes of US citizens really matter.

It's such an odd system, from the electoral college to the superdelegates in the democratic primary's to whatever rules the republicans want to call a primary at any given moment (it's some sort of weird form of Calvin ball I think... But I think Calvin ball has more consistent rules) to caucuses. It's all a far cry from a straightforward non head scratching popular vote concept. I don't even pretend to understand it all...

 

[Telmos]

It's such an odd system, from the electoral college to the superdelegates in the democratic primary's to whatever rules the republicans want to call a primary at any given moment (it's some sort of weird form of Calvin ball I think... But I think Calvin ball has more consistent rules) to caucuses. It's all a far cry from a straightforward non head scratching popular vote concept. I don't even pretend to understand it all...

Lol, I love this part comparing the voters to a child... 05.27.2016-22.57.37