E-ciggs in Jail
- Thread starter jedwards
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Hmmm, thats curious, as its always been my opinion that there is "no place on the planet" where the nations borders are not rigorously defended , can you name such a country where people are allowed to cross national borders with impunity, never to have ANY documentation checked.
the fact they come here and commit crimes is no suprise , being they broke laws to get here in the first place.
the fact they come here and commit crimes is no suprise , being they broke laws to get here in the first place.
You're assuming all people who commit crimes and get caught are bad people.
And us treating them that way is WHY we have such violence and gang activity in prison. Most Western nations don't have anywhere near as much abuse in their prison systems as the US does. We are literally the worst - the highest re-offense rates, the highest gang activity, the highest abuse and rape and death rates, anywhere in the developed world.
Again, did you even glance at the link Biff provided?
A small percentage of people in prison are genuinely bad people. A lot of them are messed up people. And a lot of them are just normal people who happened to get caught doing something stupid.
EDIT: Never said there was any place with totally open borders. What I ACTUALLY said is that some countries aren't as tough to get into as America is.
I would know. I lived as an immigrant in several different countries for years.
here, this will put things into perspective for you, as i believe you views dont represent the facts
YouTube - Immigration Gumballs
YouTube - Immigration Gumballs
they are not all bad, and not every prisoner goes into the general population, some do their time in county lockups, dont break laws serious enough to get you time, and if you do, LEARN FROM IT!
Well, I actually bothered to look at your link.
Unfortunately, it's nearly 20 years old now, and more illegal immigrants are now leaving due to our bad economy. How sad is that?
Tide of illegal immigration reverses | abc7news.com
But thing is, I wasn't talking about illegal immigration, or immigration in general.
I was simply posing the problem in your theory - that people come to the US to go to prison.
Don't side-step the issue.
What percentage would you put as the "bad ones", out of curiosity? You can ballpark it. 1%, 5%, 50%, 90%, etc.
You still. All you can see is the crime and the punishment. You can't see the living, breathing, loving, fearing person behind it.
Sure, when you lock people up, provide a dehumanizing environment, and no sensible programs for rehabilitation, you can't just say, "Be nice, don't reoffend." And that's precisely why the US has the largest prison population in the world with a 50-60% recidivism rate.
Provide a better system that gives people a chance to make atonement for their crime via jail time with meaningful rehabilitation programs and you just might see a lower rate as Norway has.
"bad" is realtive to individual beliefs and current law.
the gumball video is acurate, say that "imigration levels are reducing" does not even come close to the the problem, we have more than 3/4 a million this year immigrated, thats not speaking to "illegal Immigration" the US sustainable numbers should be in 100k range , not 750k+
the gumball video is acurate, say that "imigration levels are reducing" does not even come close to the the problem, we have more than 3/4 a million this year immigrated, thats not speaking to "illegal Immigration" the US sustainable numbers should be in 100k range , not 750k+
will never work, first of all you can make all kinds of weapons out of them, did you know an atty can reach a temp. of over 500 degreese f.
By the way, just to get slightly back on topic and answer the OP's question, with the current state of the prison system in America, no I don't think e-cigs in jails would be a good thing. In a different style system, such as Norway's, I don't see it being as much of an issue.
Wrong, we have large prison populations because of millions of guns in this country, and a huge number of people without education.
And we wont even go into the gumball theory as described above, and how that will impact US population, resources, Taxation, if current Immigration laws are not restructured.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ
Last edited:
I knew they got hot, but I didn't think it was that hot! Regardless, prisoners will never be given e-cigs. It surprises me that smoking lasted as long as it did in some institutions, not that it stops prisoners from smoking or obtaining other contraband items.
I have thought for a long time that the prison system in this country is in need of serious reform. I think that prisons should be seperated into three catagories and the prisoners should be treated accordingly.
1. hardcore criminals who have no chance of rehabilitation. The rapists, child molesters, murderers etc. If you have proven than you don't belong in society you should never be let out, you should go to a supermax were you are treated decently but are not allowed to come in contact with others in any way were you can do damage. We don't have to become heartless or cruel or lower ourselves to their level. Just lock them up throw away the key and keep them from harming each other or anyone else.
2. The people who need to pe punished. These are the people that have committed a crime but are unlikely to be a repeat offender. The reason for the punishment is to discourage these people and others from doing what they have done. The punishment needs to be severe enough to discourage this behaviour. Most of the time I can't see prison as the solution for these people at all. Severe fines, community service, heck even caning would make more sense then sending them to prison.
3. Rehabilitation: these are the people who currently should not be allowed in society because they simply can't be trusted to be part of society. These are the marginal people who we should really be spending the most amount of effort on. They should not be let out untill they have proven that they have the skills to live in society without damaging others. If they can't or won't acquire these skills (after being given the chance to) or get out and commit further crimes then they go to supermax for life.
As for victimless crimes. I don't believe it's possible to commit a crime without a victim. No victim no crime. Breaking a law does not make you a criminal, damaging others or their property does. The rest are civil infractions and should be treated as such. For example drunk driving is not a crime. Negligent driving were you hurt someone or their property is a crime, regardless of the reason for the negligence.
As for vaping in prison, if it can be allowed without it being a threat it should be, as long as it is paid for by the prisoner. It would reduce the cost of health care for these prisoners. However, I doubt that this would fit in with the current system or at least not at the vast majority of the prisons.
1. hardcore criminals who have no chance of rehabilitation. The rapists, child molesters, murderers etc. If you have proven than you don't belong in society you should never be let out, you should go to a supermax were you are treated decently but are not allowed to come in contact with others in any way were you can do damage. We don't have to become heartless or cruel or lower ourselves to their level. Just lock them up throw away the key and keep them from harming each other or anyone else.
2. The people who need to pe punished. These are the people that have committed a crime but are unlikely to be a repeat offender. The reason for the punishment is to discourage these people and others from doing what they have done. The punishment needs to be severe enough to discourage this behaviour. Most of the time I can't see prison as the solution for these people at all. Severe fines, community service, heck even caning would make more sense then sending them to prison.
3. Rehabilitation: these are the people who currently should not be allowed in society because they simply can't be trusted to be part of society. These are the marginal people who we should really be spending the most amount of effort on. They should not be let out untill they have proven that they have the skills to live in society without damaging others. If they can't or won't acquire these skills (after being given the chance to) or get out and commit further crimes then they go to supermax for life.
As for victimless crimes. I don't believe it's possible to commit a crime without a victim. No victim no crime. Breaking a law does not make you a criminal, damaging others or their property does. The rest are civil infractions and should be treated as such. For example drunk driving is not a crime. Negligent driving were you hurt someone or their property is a crime, regardless of the reason for the negligence.
As for vaping in prison, if it can be allowed without it being a threat it should be, as long as it is paid for by the prisoner. It would reduce the cost of health care for these prisoners. However, I doubt that this would fit in with the current system or at least not at the vast majority of the prisons.
No, it doesn't. At 500F, the atty would pop immediately.
Atties max out at 350F. And that's pushing it.
If atties could get that hot, VG vapers would be sick from acrolein poisoning when vaping at high voltage.
Wow. I really am wasting time here. Sociology and crime. Give the topic a read some time. It might open your eyes.
BradSmith - You make the most sense so far of anyone here.
If non-dangerous criminals were separated more effectively, and criminals in general were not so dehumanized, the risk of them using it as weaponry would drop drastically, in which case allowing them to vape would make more sense.
I agree with you on #1 especially - the one big thing Norway's doing wrong. Those kinds of people are permanently messed up. There's no way to make them less dangerous.
As to #2, that would be the idea situation for young, minor offenders. The normal people who get caught doing something stupid.
If non-dangerous criminals were separated more effectively, and criminals in general were not so dehumanized, the risk of them using it as weaponry would drop drastically, in which case allowing them to vape would make more sense.
I agree with you on #1 especially - the one big thing Norway's doing wrong. Those kinds of people are permanently messed up. There's no way to make them less dangerous.
As to #2, that would be the idea situation for young, minor offenders. The normal people who get caught doing something stupid.
Last edited:
i read that but they listed it in c. so i opened my converter program and it said 500f.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
