http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-trial-malaysia.html?highlight=clinical+trial
This is the one, DC
Emp
This is the one, DC
Emp
- Status
Ok, I read his post but I am not sure how Thailand's government can influence Malasia's so easily. there must be lurking something behind the curtains. Do the countries have trade agreements regarding pharmaceuticals?
You might find this article also at The Nation interesting. It describes how the Thai government circumvents the restrictions on using patented drugs by incorporating a licensing system, thereby allowing them to copy any existing drug on the market and manufacturing them cheaply in thailand itself. this is really bothering Big Pharm.
So if Thailand is heedless to intellectual property, why cant they simply devise their own electronic cigarette and tax it as much as they like? I dont think thailand's gov cares about the revenue it recieves from taxing cigarettes. after all most of this revenue is spent on their anti-smoking measures and hospital bills for patients suffering from various smoking related illness. their agenda is to stamp out smoking, not profit from it.
Anyway I've sent out some more mails to a few places where i hope to get some leads and will report back if i can glean any more info. My line of though is still that someone connected to "the study" or perhaps the minisrty of health has a vested interest in keeping the e-cigs from market. but who?
Perhaps Thailand's government is legitamally concerned about the safety of using electronic cigarettes. "It has asked The FDA to conduct a study of e-cigarettes" but also "to discuss with agencies concerned to draw out preventive measures."...(a little hastily perhaps?) so maybe we can expect to see more reports of more studies carried out in thailand and until then we cant be certain that the government itself is in on the game.
You might find this article also at The Nation interesting. It describes how the Thai government circumvents the restrictions on using patented drugs by incorporating a licensing system, thereby allowing them to copy any existing drug on the market and manufacturing them cheaply in thailand itself. this is really bothering Big Pharm.
So if Thailand is heedless to intellectual property, why cant they simply devise their own electronic cigarette and tax it as much as they like? I dont think thailand's gov cares about the revenue it recieves from taxing cigarettes. after all most of this revenue is spent on their anti-smoking measures and hospital bills for patients suffering from various smoking related illness. their agenda is to stamp out smoking, not profit from it.
Anyway I've sent out some more mails to a few places where i hope to get some leads and will report back if i can glean any more info. My line of though is still that someone connected to "the study" or perhaps the minisrty of health has a vested interest in keeping the e-cigs from market. but who?
Perhaps Thailand's government is legitamally concerned about the safety of using electronic cigarettes. "It has asked The FDA to conduct a study of e-cigarettes" but also "to discuss with agencies concerned to draw out preventive measures."...(a little hastily perhaps?) so maybe we can expect to see more reports of more studies carried out in thailand and until then we cant be certain that the government itself is in on the game.
Last edited:
Hi DC...Just to let you know the Thai MOH can tie up with their Asian MOH counterparts in Medical assistance or alerts if anything pops up..that's what they did..they alerted our MOH and my MOH advised me to stop all clinical trials until the e-cig thing gets past the US FDA first which is a long way to come...so still awaiting instructions but I am still conducting my own private studies but at much smaller scale and stop getting new patients to start ...so on the lower profile status now but not completely banned....cheers bro...if you need more info please do not hesistate to PM me..er...some things I can't discuss in the open.....I hope you understand...
Thanks for the clarification jim, dis-heartening that thailand can excert such pressure on its neigbours. guess its the old story of money controling the world's affairs. Keep up the good work. I particularly admire it as it so completely indepenant.
Last edited:
Hear hear. If we ever get around to the international e-smoking conference, the beers are on me, doc...
Emp
Emp
I can't find Tropical Bob's original link to Bangkok's Independent Newspaper, but in response to that, I wonder in what component of the e-cigg the 28 carcinogenic substances are said to be found. (Even in the 0% nicotine versions?) Also, as an example of such a substance, I have heard of alkaloids, but never "alkaloida."
As the electronic cigarette is fairly new, I am very curious about the claims of it's effects on health. Has anyone asked their doctors personally or read anything other interesting claims?
As the electronic cigarette is fairly new, I am very curious about the claims of it's effects on health. Has anyone asked their doctors personally or read anything other interesting claims?
Well, while i think the article is written mainly to plant seeds of doubt in e-cigarettes, i think some of the information in it is true.
I know from experience that e-cigarettes deliver a higher level of nicotine than regular cigarettes. I am assuming it is because A)the nicotine product is vaporized and not burned, therefore less nicotine is lost before passing into the blood, and B) most commercial e-liquids are dosed too high and people buy higher nicotine liquid than they need.
Seriously, after vaping some 18mg all week as my first e-liquid (that's high strength) i can tell you i have never been this high off of nicotine.
I think the "amphetamine like effects" comments are true. Nicotine at these dosages is a potent stimulant. Especially dosing yourself all day in a vapor format the way we do.
Maybe it's just me. I don't know.
It's my opinion that 36mg/ml juice is completely unnecessary. That's probably 3 times the amount of nicotine in an analog cig in about ten puffs.
On the other hand, i do feel healthier and my lungs feel "pinker" now that i have dropped analog cigs for a week. My guess with e-smoking is that it's a trade off. Your circulation will get worse, but your respiratory system will get better. Best to use e-smoking as a tool to break all your old habits, then quit nicotine.
Just my opinion.
edit: i think the most important part of e-cigs as a way to stop smoking is the fact that now you no longer go outside for a cigarette break. You don't feel like you have to sneak one in on the drive to work or after dinner, because you can smoke them anywhere, any time. I feel like i could quit if i don't get addicted to this super high nicotine level. I still feel that e-smoking is good and i am gonna continue to do it until i do finally quit.
But in order for it to be worthwhile, you still have to quit. You can't just e-smoke forever because it's bound to cause problems. Nicotine is a stimulant and will cause problems, carcinogens or no.
Someone has gotta see eye to eye with me here.
I know from experience that e-cigarettes deliver a higher level of nicotine than regular cigarettes. I am assuming it is because A)the nicotine product is vaporized and not burned, therefore less nicotine is lost before passing into the blood, and B) most commercial e-liquids are dosed too high and people buy higher nicotine liquid than they need.
Seriously, after vaping some 18mg all week as my first e-liquid (that's high strength) i can tell you i have never been this high off of nicotine.
I think the "amphetamine like effects" comments are true. Nicotine at these dosages is a potent stimulant. Especially dosing yourself all day in a vapor format the way we do.
Maybe it's just me. I don't know.
It's my opinion that 36mg/ml juice is completely unnecessary. That's probably 3 times the amount of nicotine in an analog cig in about ten puffs.
On the other hand, i do feel healthier and my lungs feel "pinker" now that i have dropped analog cigs for a week. My guess with e-smoking is that it's a trade off. Your circulation will get worse, but your respiratory system will get better. Best to use e-smoking as a tool to break all your old habits, then quit nicotine.
Just my opinion.
edit: i think the most important part of e-cigs as a way to stop smoking is the fact that now you no longer go outside for a cigarette break. You don't feel like you have to sneak one in on the drive to work or after dinner, because you can smoke them anywhere, any time. I feel like i could quit if i don't get addicted to this super high nicotine level. I still feel that e-smoking is good and i am gonna continue to do it until i do finally quit.
But in order for it to be worthwhile, you still have to quit. You can't just e-smoke forever because it's bound to cause problems. Nicotine is a stimulant and will cause problems, carcinogens or no.
Someone has gotta see eye to eye with me here.
Last edited:
36 mg Totally wicked tobacco flavor I have bought from Ebay I have been smoking it on and off for several weeks, I have had no health problems from it, but I do say I get a nice feeling from it. The only thing I don't like about it is there is much to much of a throat hit, every time I take a drag from it
I want to cough and usually I do. As for it being to much nicotine content.
I really don't think it is that bad, the reason I say this is because I have
a modified dse 801 penstyle, that puts out even more smoke than it would
normally do if it wasn't modified.
As for the coughing, I believe it is the Propylene glycerol causing me to cough not the nicotine , I have read a lab test somewhere about e-liquid that have that ingredient. The lab test I read on this forum is that it is not a necessary ingredient and also that that chemical or what not was realized to be a respiratory problem, and that it could just easily be replaced with vegetable glycerin. But what I think is weird, I found out that those machines that makes smoke or "fog machines" used at clubs or to simulate fog uses Propylene glycerol and for many many years I believe was considered a safe thing to use.
But back to if 36 mg e-liquid: No I don't think 36 mg is too much.. I get maybe a slight more of a high from Totally wicked 36 mg e-liquid than compared to a regular cigarette.
Also what I said before my modified e-cigarette even gives me more smoke than it is suppose to and that would increase the nicotine high that much more.
Last edited:
The thing is Nicotine is defined as an alkaloid, But I don't worry much about this paper because There is also Nicotine in normal cigarettes than that means normal cigarettes have alkaloids too!
But also I think it is important to e-smoke responsibly because since the electronic cigarette is very similar affects as a normal cigarette, that a person should not constantly smoke it for long periods of time I don't smoke it for example a full hour in a chain like manner rather I take a break from it.
Because who even if someone where to smoke regular cigarettes for an hour in also a chain like manner. Both the e-cigarette and regular cigarette
can be used the same way, so I do keep it to a minimum because I simply don't want to smoke or vaporize too much! Health is important!
Ok, well i am just pulling these numbers off the top of my head, from what i've read on this forum. There's a very good chance my calculations are wrong, and i have only been e-smoking a week (for the record, i really like it and i think it is, or should be, the future of nicotine consumption)
Just throwing this out there:
This is kinda long so skip to the end if you want to
In a regular combustible tobacco cigarette, there is 1.2 mg of nicotine. This could be potentiated by a MAOI called harmine that is released when smoking. Harmine is not released with an e-cigarette. This could account for cravings for analogs even after e-smoking.
So that's 1mg/10, since theres about what, 10-12 puffs in a king size? .12mg/puff, potentiated by the harmine.
In fierce juice, there's 36mg/ml. 1ml is enough to fill a cart and in a cart there's about 10x10 puffs=.36mg/puff.
I am willing to bet vaporization is a much more efficient way for your lungs to absorb the nicotine than combustion, as well.
Without a clinical study on the actual potency of different kinds of e-liquid, you can't be sure, but from the general estimations i see thrown around, it seems that e-smoking with e-liquid that has nicotine concentrations above 12mg/ml delivers more nicotine than actually smoking. This could be interpreted by the government as a means of banning the e-cigarette on grounds that it could be more addictive than cigarettes are!
The trick to figuring out if an e-cig is healthier than a regular cig, and in fact reduces nicotine consumption (which really should be the goal, to reduce nicotine consumption AND carcinogens) is to find out exactly what the effect of this harmine is. As it stands you are getting 3x the amount of nicotine in one puff of your fierce juice. Like i am saying, nicotine is a potent stimulant at these doses and people with heart problems/older folks should take care about high nicotine consumption.
It's my opinion that e-liquid should be a sanctioned to have 0mg/ml, 5mg, 10mg, 15mg, and 20 mg/ml concentrations. This will reduce harm to the heart, curb addiction, prevent fatalities from heart patients that misuse the product, and secure the electronic cigarette as the future of smoking!
Remember, i think e-smoking is good and i want to continue to do it. I am just trying to protect it by being a little more conservative about the actual nicotine level. I have a face tremor that i get when i use a lot of stimulants, and i havent had it for a while but it came back when i started e-smoking, suggesting to me that i'm actually ingesting a considerable amount more nicotine.
This is, again, just my theories and opinion based on observation/loose statistics. I'm not a doctor or a scientist.
Just throwing this out there:
This is kinda long so skip to the end if you want to
In a regular combustible tobacco cigarette, there is 1.2 mg of nicotine. This could be potentiated by a MAOI called harmine that is released when smoking. Harmine is not released with an e-cigarette. This could account for cravings for analogs even after e-smoking.
So that's 1mg/10, since theres about what, 10-12 puffs in a king size? .12mg/puff, potentiated by the harmine.
In fierce juice, there's 36mg/ml. 1ml is enough to fill a cart and in a cart there's about 10x10 puffs=.36mg/puff.
I am willing to bet vaporization is a much more efficient way for your lungs to absorb the nicotine than combustion, as well.
Without a clinical study on the actual potency of different kinds of e-liquid, you can't be sure, but from the general estimations i see thrown around, it seems that e-smoking with e-liquid that has nicotine concentrations above 12mg/ml delivers more nicotine than actually smoking. This could be interpreted by the government as a means of banning the e-cigarette on grounds that it could be more addictive than cigarettes are!
The trick to figuring out if an e-cig is healthier than a regular cig, and in fact reduces nicotine consumption (which really should be the goal, to reduce nicotine consumption AND carcinogens) is to find out exactly what the effect of this harmine is. As it stands you are getting 3x the amount of nicotine in one puff of your fierce juice. Like i am saying, nicotine is a potent stimulant at these doses and people with heart problems/older folks should take care about high nicotine consumption.
It's my opinion that e-liquid should be a sanctioned to have 0mg/ml, 5mg, 10mg, 15mg, and 20 mg/ml concentrations. This will reduce harm to the heart, curb addiction, prevent fatalities from heart patients that misuse the product, and secure the electronic cigarette as the future of smoking!
Remember, i think e-smoking is good and i want to continue to do it. I am just trying to protect it by being a little more conservative about the actual nicotine level. I have a face tremor that i get when i use a lot of stimulants, and i havent had it for a while but it came back when i started e-smoking, suggesting to me that i'm actually ingesting a considerable amount more nicotine.
This is, again, just my theories and opinion based on observation/loose statistics. I'm not a doctor or a scientist.
...electronic cigarettes contain nicotine and 28 carcinogenic substances, such as alkaloida, which releases substances that have amphetaminelike effects.
I am sort of able to recognize "amphetaminelike effects" when they kick in. (I loved the "effects" when I had certain medication prescribed in the past, but that is OT so I stop here. I just know them. Full stop.) I felt various things when I switched to e-cigs, including the runs, but no bl**dy amphetamine(like) rush! If nothing else, that part would make me believe the report is a sham. They just threw in amphetamines for the case nicotine and blood pressure and sexual performance deficiency did not cause enough panic. If even that still does not suffice, next report will be hinting .........
I am sort of able to recognize "amphetaminelike effects" when they kick in. (I loved the "effects" when I had certain medication prescribed in the past, but that is OT so I stop here. I just know them. Full stop.) I felt various things when I switched to e-cigs, including the runs
, but no bl**dy amphetamine(like) rush! If nothing else, that part would make me believe the report is a sham. They just threw in amphetamines for the case nicotine and blood pressure and sexual performance deficiency did not cause enough panic. If even that still does not suffice, next report will be hinting .........
Last edited:
I am not a doctor or a scientist either. Well you know e-cigarettes they have been out for not that long since the first one I read came out in 2004, I do get scared reading about bad things about the e-cigarette. I don't doubt there would be no improvements for the e-cigarette liquid in the future.
I think a lot depends on "how" a person uses the e-cigarette device has a lot of merit also as you explained about the nicotine content dosage per puff. If I could use less nicotine I would definitely go for it. I myself plan to try 24 mg I would be honest here and say It would be always be safer/healthier of course to use less since it is considered a dangerous substance.
The way I smoke is as for this 36 mg stuff I have, I never actually am able to get a full puff or full mouth full to inhale into my lungs I think I actually get 1/3 of a mouth full in my lungs from a puff, even when I try to get a nice big inhale my throat won't let me take in a full mouth full. Also with normal cigarettes I sometimes smoke the same way.
I am cautious of using these e-cigarettes, when I see negative reactions
about them I can't help but feel unsafe. You know a lot of new ideas in this world have either started out perfectly or not well at all and get re-implemented and improved for better use somehow. It would not be good if someone died from smoking an e-cigarette obviously when It suppose to be better than a regular cigarette, Which I have never read or heard of anyone actually dieing from it's use, but I would still be care full.
I am sure people in good health with nicotine tolerance can handle a lot more nicotine. What i'm saying is, i don't think you're in immediate danger but as time goes on you might want to consider lowering the nic dosage. I'm no physician but i'd definitely discourage people with high blood pressure or any heart problems from using nicotine in this way.
Your point about how you actually smoke the e-cig is a good point though. I tend to take insanely long/double drags on it. I can't help it, it's just how i smoke.
Your point about how you actually smoke the e-cig is a good point though. I tend to take insanely long/double drags on it. I can't help it, it's just how i smoke.
It's not just you Zack, I agree.
I started with high (18mg) nicotine and had restlessness, palpitations, indigestion, heartburn and headaches. I had no idea at the time that I had raised my nicotine dose and thought the symptoms were due to other ingredients. I think people get high and extra high juice because they think they need it as a substitute for tobacco but it doesn't add up like that, it's just higher doses that increase tolerance or make people sick. Nicotine does not stop cravings.
I'm still not convinced that working out our nicotine intake from the figures on the packet is that helpful. Those figures are obtained from the residue that's left behind by a machine that smokes every cigarette in exactly the same way, it isn't the contents of the cigarette itself. You only get that amount if you smoke in exactly the same way as the machine. I found this study recently that suggests the actual nicotine intake by smokers is much higher:
"the calculated value for mean nicotine content per cigarette differed by almost an order of magnitude from the official FTC-rating"
SpringerLink - Journal Article
I'm not sure how credible a source it is but it sounds more realistic to me. When I was smoking fags I would go through one in about 1.5-2 minutes on breaks at work. I inhaled the things like air. Also the majority of the 30 I smoked each day were consumed in the evening when I got home from work. Someone with the same 30 a day habit who spreads them over the day and has a five minute natter on breaks at work would surely have much different nicotine peaks to me. Some people here could well have been getting the amount of nicotine stated on the packet but I suspect many of us were taking in more. I'm certain I was anyway.
"the calculated value for mean nicotine content per cigarette differed by almost an order of magnitude from the official FTC-rating"
SpringerLink - Journal Article
I'm not sure how credible a source it is but it sounds more realistic to me. When I was smoking fags I would go through one in about 1.5-2 minutes on breaks at work. I inhaled the things like air. Also the majority of the 30 I smoked each day were consumed in the evening when I got home from work. Someone with the same 30 a day habit who spreads them over the day and has a five minute natter on breaks at work would surely have much different nicotine peaks to me. Some people here could well have been getting the amount of nicotine stated on the packet but I suspect many of us were taking in more. I'm certain I was anyway.
It's hard to compare because both habits are different and we can only use educated guesses about the quantity of nicotine we are getting with esmoking too.
Reading the experiences of people on this forum convinces me that we are often getting more nicotine than we were with smoking. I have never heard a seasoned smoker report nicotine overdose from smoking but it happens a lot here.
Reading the experiences of people on this forum convinces me that we are often getting more nicotine than we were with smoking. I have never heard a seasoned smoker report nicotine overdose from smoking but it happens a lot here.
That's true and I'm not trying to deny people are experiencing problems with it. There just seems to be a lot of formulas on this site that take the figures on the side of a ... packet as accurate. I'm just not sure we should be doing that.
- Status
Similar threads
