E-liquid lab/toxicology reports

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The only problem with e-liquid is that it's unregulated...(most of it comes from china) and much easier to get a tainted product. However of course this never stopped the FDA from passing tainted/harmful products themselves. (so many prescription & OTC drugs) I agree & disagree with the FDA views. I think they should keep the product safe, but not ban it or help cause license/tax issues, etc. FDA already claimed to find harmfull ingredients in tainted e-liquid that shouldn't be there in any case. I think it's a good thing so far as we can guarantee a safe supply. I've been a e-smoker for awhile & "former" smoker much longer.
 
Hello,

As I was looking for a Djarum Black recipe I came upon one that of course contains Cloves, which in turn contains the numbing ingredient eugenol. I've researched eugenol and its effects when inhaled and reports say hospitalization has occurred from this chemical from smoking Djarum Black (krekets) alike.

My question... Does inhaling clove really have a negative effect concerning its ingredient eugenol? Is their an alternative to making an e-juice to creating the same numbing effect? And is there another oil that tastes like clove... something sweet, spicy, and cinnamon per say?

Thank you guys... :)
 
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Koman

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bobtow

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For what its worth I have a shortcut to a letter written to the FDA in response to their report and the negative reporting on TV. It is by AAPHP from a medical journal. That states that ecigs "are not the wildly dangerous alternatives as they have been portrayed, but one of the best products today for a smoker to turn to"
 

DirtyHarry

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raw FDA report from their website; go back a page in this forum - I'm not quite up to 15 posts yet. Give me a break; I joined less than a week ago :)

I find this report interesting in it's complete lack of contextual meaning or even purpose. Your tax dollars at work, I suppose.

It reports X amount of nicotine in a given sample (which are not described other than being acquired from some unnamed distributor of a particular e-cig; that is, the carts are filled with fluid manufactured by WHOM?). This is hardly unexpected as the fluid is supposed to have nicotine in it, and pointless as nicotine is not in and of itself harmful (as best anyone knows, outside of rare allergies) in the quantities listed.

The report then goes on to indicate a handful of "Tobacco specific nitrosamines" were "detected in both products at very low levels".

So what? "Detected" is the only analysis given (probably because the levels are so low that a mass ratio was impossible to calculate using that equipment). There is no discussion of what health effects are known or unknown about said "Tobacco specific nitrosamines" in what quantities over what periods of time.

This is simply a lab procedure report, much like we did in High School Chemestry class to assure the teacher we did our lab work as specified. It not only draws no conclusions about real-world effects, it cannot draw any conclusions, because it is simply raw (and ambiguous) data without context.

In short, other than as a "checklist result" for a lab tech, this report is almost utterly meaningless.
 

Altmed

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Jul 20, 2010
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There is a newer, more complete, version of this report available here.

Cheers,
Silver

Interesting from a country w/ serious bias against eCigs & even nicotania veggies like tomatoes, potatoes, etc.

The baseline CO looks a bit off, or seems to need more explanation as to why the CO levels before were so different???

So, what more does the FDA want? Their credibility is about zip with me at this point!

Dangerous drugs are OK, safer herbals & eCigs, even with testing showing they are safe aren't? I knew the FDA had some, what I'd refer to as suspected pay-offs to get seriously dangerous drugs on the market & keep them there & other highly questionable actions & inaction, but this is ridiculous!

This just shows how unhealthy the FDA seems to want everyone to keep the pharma companies in their pockets!:blink:
 

Altmed

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In that report is a link to a table from another study re: cigarette smoke http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/suppl/2003/12/12/12.4.424.DC1/124424table1.pdf

from California. That table shows contaminants that have been banned for YEARS & I have to wonder what the same values for our food supply would be under the same testing... some veggies & fruits would be clearly more susceptible than others... not going to give a biology/botany lesson here, but no comparison there, as usual, to cigarettes that are organically grown &/or that have no additives! The chloramines is most of our municipal water & in other countries, along with the DDT levels would suggest that this study was done in a country that has allowed he use of DDT & other chemicals until relatively recently (DDT sticks around for a LONG time!)

What are they smokin' & how long ago was that done? It "appears from the name given to the study that this was done in CA, USA...

There is CLEARLY an agenda to stop cigarettes & anything else THEY want to control financially. Are chemically laden cigarettes healthy? Clearly not, but I have to wonder where they got the "cigarettes" they say they tested for this, from what country (or for what country's export) as anyone who's tried foreign cigarettes knows they are NOT the same, even if made in the US.

Again, WHAT ARE THEY SMOKIN'? And why aren't they comparing to other plants grown in the same place, especially food plants that retain these sorts of chemicals?

This pseudo-"research" table, and the many, many others like it I've seen, are CLEARLY biased against ANY cigarettes AND they are trying to apply this to eCigs when it clearly doesn't even begin to compare?



"Tobacco Control is an international peer review journal covering the nature and consequences of tobacco use worldwide; tobacco's effects on population health, the economy, the environment, and society; efforts to prevent and control the global tobacco epidemic through population level education and policy changes; the ethical dimensions of tobacco control policies; and the activities of the tobacco industry and its allies.
Essential reading for everyone with an interest in tobacco control, including public health professionals, researchers, policy makers and educators."

For those who don't know what the BMJ is, it is the "British Medical Journal". I never thought any medical journal would accept ANY so-called, "research" that is CLEARLY designed to mislead, but am learning fast it's all about the money & certainly NOT about health any more, not with the BMA or the AMA & certainly not the FDA.

Tobacco Control - BMJ Journals ... the name says a lot... Their apparent motto on their front page says even more...,

"Tobacco Control is an international peer review journal covering the nature and consequences of tobacco use worldwide; tobacco's effects on population health, the economy, the environment, and society; efforts to prevent and control the global tobacco epidemic through population level education and policy changes; the ethical dimensions of tobacco control policies; and the activities of the tobacco industry and its allies.
Essential reading for everyone with an interest in tobacco control, including public health professionals, researchers, policy makers and educators."

Peer reviewed by who? Others who agree with their agenda? What a sick joke with highly questionable pseudo-science.

-Altmed
 

Altmed

Full Member
Jul 20, 2010
38
4
S. California
In that report is a link to a table from another study re: cigarette smoke http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/suppl/2003/12/12/12.4.424.DC1/124424table1.pdf

from California. That table shows contaminants that have been banned for YEARS & I have to wonder what the same values for our food supply would be under the same testing... some veggies & fruits would be clearly more susceptible than others... not going to give a biology/botany lesson here, but no comparison there, as usual, to cigarettes that are organically grown &/or that have no additives! The chloramines is most of our municipal water & in other countries, along with the DDT levels would suggest that this study was done in a country that has allowed he use of DDT & other chemicals until relatively recently (DDT sticks around for a LONG time!)

What are they smokin' & how long ago was that done? It "appears from the name given to the study that this was done in CA, USA...

There is CLEARLY an agenda to stop cigarettes & anything else THEY want to control financially. Are chemically laden cigarettes healthy? Clearly not, but I have to wonder where they got the "cigarettes" they say they tested for this, from what country (or for what country's export) as anyone who's tried foreign cigarettes knows they are NOT the same, even if made in the US.

Again, WHAT ARE THEY SMOKIN'? And why aren't they comparing to other plants grown in the same place, especially food plants that retain these sorts of chemicals?

This pseudo-"research" table, and the many, many others like it I've seen, are CLEARLY biased against ANY cigarettes AND they are trying to apply this to eCigs when it clearly doesn't even begin to compare?



"Tobacco Control is an international peer review journal covering the nature and consequences of tobacco use worldwide; tobacco's effects on population health, the economy, the environment, and society; efforts to prevent and control the global tobacco epidemic through population level education and policy changes; the ethical dimensions of tobacco control policies; and the activities of the tobacco industry and its allies.
Essential reading for everyone with an interest in tobacco control, including public health professionals, researchers, policy makers and educators."

For those who don't know what the BMJ is, it is the "British Medical Journal". I never thought any medical journal would accept ANY so-called, "research" that is CLEARLY designed to mislead, but am learning fast it's all about the money & certainly NOT about health any more, not with the BMA or the AMA & certainly not the FDA.

Tobacco Control - BMJ Journals ... the name says a lot... Their apparent motto on their front page says even more...,

"Tobacco Control is an international peer review journal covering the nature and consequences of tobacco use worldwide; tobacco's effects on population health, the economy, the environment, and society; efforts to prevent and control the global tobacco epidemic through population level education and policy changes; the ethical dimensions of tobacco control policies; and the activities of the tobacco industry and its allies.
Essential reading for everyone with an interest in tobacco control, including public health professionals, researchers, policy makers and educators."

Peer reviewed by who? Others who agree with their agenda? What a sick joke with highly questionable pseudo-science.

-Altmed
 

Devilbetterrun

Full Member
Jul 9, 2010
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Florida
Ok I'm sorry for this dumb Q but me a noob LoL I don't make out a lot of this and I don't want to think I am. Any help? Is e-juice not safe or something? Sorry again I know this is dumb but idk

Like whats safer propylene glycerin or Propylene glycol or VG? I'm just looking for the right thing to help and not go down that same road with cancer problems as 3 people in my family died from so any help would ease my mind thanks.
 

Lydia

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Nov 28, 2010
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Some more good news for vaping, I think

On the site of Flavourart, Italy, in section Vapeheaven, subsection E-cigs and safety you find an introduction and links to recent in vitro studies on e-cig IO POSSO /YES I CAN/cartridges with Flavourart Heaven Juice (nicotine 9 mg/ml) with mix of the Flavourart flavours Perique black and Virginia (total flavour dose 3%)

Flavourart states the results are very interesting and encouraging. Indeed, they are without doubt interesting and I think they are encouraging. Read the studies if you will get a bit of insight on this matter. Studies with the component flavour in it are not done until now, as far as I know. The following will make it easier to get a quick understanding of the studies:

The first study was done by 2 biotechnologists to evaluate the cytotoxicity of inhaled ‘smoke’ towards fibroblasts (cells of the respiratory epithelia). For comparison the smoke of a real traditional cigarette (Condensed PM) was the positive control and an untreated condition (no smoke treatment) the negative control. The first presented results (page 11 and 12) are the ones of the positive control (the real smoke.) They showed to be very cytotoxic on fibroblasts; even if the smoke is very diluted (1:16) it’s leads to cytotoxicity. Cell viability results >70% are considered non-cytotoxic. On page 13 you see the results of the mentioned e-cig with Flavourart-mix in the cartridge. None of the results with the mentioned Flavourart mix were cytotoxic on fibroblasts, because all results stayed above the 70%-limit.

The second study, by a biotechnologist and a chirurg, specialised in allergology and immunology, was done on blood cells (monocytes/macrophages.) The aim was to test whether there was a pro-sensitising effect caused by the Heaven juice 9 mg/ ml + the flavour mix of Virgina and Perique black. For comparison there were also blood cells treated with nickel sulphate (known for giving a pro-sensitising effect) as the positive controls and non-treated blood cells as the negative controls. On page 10 of the study you see the results. The positive controls (treated with nickel sulphate) compared to the negative controls showed a pro-sensitising effect, the cells treated with the Heaven juice mix seem to show no pro-sensitising effect.

The third study/report is on heavy metals. The results are far under the limits.

The results refer only to the tested samples and experimental conditions of the study. So they do not allow for generalisations to other samples and conditions.
 
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