E-smoking could be worse than real cigarettes

[Ramblin]

Yes, yes, yes. Yes.

I can't count the number of times I'd have a former smoker tell me about how he quit using XYZ or ABC. Lord, I tried them all. At first, I tried with hope and excitement . . . eventually, though, it became an exercise in futility. And towards the very end when my friends and family would start in with, "You really need to quit," I'd pretty much shut down.

Yeah, they're worried about the safety, but the truth is that they really don't want to think too hard about how horribly unsafe tobacco smoking is because they know they can't quit or they simply don't want to quit.

I've only had a very few people say that vaping could be worse than smoking. I said something along the lines of, "You could very well be right that vaping is dangerous. But I KNOW smoking is dangerous, so to me, this is a reasonable risk. To each their own."

For the most part, though, I've found people pretty accepting.

Good points!

 

[fiddler]

Smokers who pan PV's without evidence are just giving themselves yet another excuse to continue consuming tobacco.

I have bladder cancer, almost certainly caused by smoking tobacco. It probably won't kill me because it was caught at an early stage. But given that, what have you got that you think you can scare me with? Stage smoke and supernatural battery demons? Not likely...

 

[nonamebrand]

Really? Propylene Glycol is already in analogs? If I would have known that one yesterday, I would have had a better chance in the debate/argument.

Yes I do try to seem honest to people by telling them to quit smoking altogether and those problems will be gone. I'm not really trying to persuade or sell anything to the smokers anymore. But I know I can rub off as passionate and enthusiastic at times because I really see a lot of hope in PVDs.

 

[Mohave]

I personally would rather die than live in a world where every possible risk has been removed.

Thank you.

 

[Wildsky]

Folks are funny aren't they.

I was worried for a while there, inhaling this vapor... but then I cleaned the bathroom!\, and the smell of the bleach cleaner always sticks with me for hours - thats got to be WAY worse (going to buy a mask for the next time - LOL)
Honestly we breath is so much nasty stuff - I don't think this vapor does anything more.

 

[nonamebrand]

JustJulie I can see what you're saying. When I smoked analogs and somebody mentioned something about quitting I would kind of tune out of what they were saying. I simply did not want to quit, so I guess I didn't want to listen to anything that involved quitting. So I can see how people on the analog side of the fence could easily defend their analog smoking by saying e-cigarettes could pose a great risk.

I just get kind of flustered, because when I smoked analogs people never ganged up on me like this. It's just funny. When I was an analog smoker, I only had the antis against me, but even then most antis kept quiet. Now that I'm a vaper, I still have the antis against me and even added some smokers to the battle and talking about vaping vs. smoking can become such a hot topic.

And Fiddler I'm sorry about your situation. But I'm glad to hear it's under control and you caught it early. A little stage smoker, a rechargeable battery and flavour I can't see phasing you much at all.

 

[cclisamona]

well after reading this whole thread i must admit.. im a little leary now of my ecig.....

 

[JustJulie]

JustJulie I can see what you're saying. When I smoked analogs and somebody mentioned something about quitting I would kind of tune out of what they were saying. I simply did not want to quit, so I guess I didn't want to listen to anything that involved quitting. So I can see how people on the analog side of the fence could easily defend their analog smoking by saying e-cigarettes could pose a great risk.

I just get kind of flustered, because when I smoked analogs people never ganged up on me like this. It's just funny. When I was an analog smoker, I only had the antis against me, but even then most antis kept quiet. Now that I'm a vaper, I still have the antis against me and even added some smokers to the battle and talking about vaping vs. smoking can become such a hot topic.

And Fiddler I'm sorry about your situation. But I'm glad to hear it's under control and you caught it early. A little stage smoker, a rechargeable battery and flavour I can't see phasing you much at all.

Oh, yes . . . I got very defensive because I had a love/hate relationship with my tobacco. I knew it a nasty, dangerous, expensive habit, and I knew that my smoking worried my family . . . and yet, I LOVED the feeling of inhaling, pulling something of weight into my lungs, that feeling of peace and contentment. Tobacco was my friend--a toxic friend, but a friend nonetheless.

Truthfully, I really didn't want to quit. I just wanted to be able to smoke without all the health risks, the nasty smell, and the upset to my family. The thought of quitting smoking forever would fill me with a sense of dread and anxiety.

At first when I would discuss my vaping with smokers, I'd share the RELIGION: "Yes, you, too, can quit with e-cigs." Now, I just tell them that I picked them up to cut back on my tobacco and to be able to deal with places where I couldn't ordinarily smoke, and I was shocked to find that within days, I was pretty much off tobacco because vaping just tasted better.

Strangely enough, the lower key approach seems to get people more interested. They've already heard about the MIRACLES of all the other stop smoking therapies, so this is just one more in a long line of stop smoking gimicks that clearly will not work for them. However, when you tell them how you didn't want to give up your tobacco, your best friend, but that you found a new best friend who tastes better, smells better, and gets your non-smoking friends and family off your back . . . .

 

[Ramblin]

well after reading this whole thread i must admit.. im a little leary now of my ecig.....

Mail it to me and any juice you have.

 

[leaford]

there could be something in the atomizer that causes something 10x worse than real cancer,

Ten times WORSE than FATAL?

 

[somberbear]

jestjulie - yep me too , i dont push it , its not my place im not selling it to myself im already sold. when im around a smoker i get the urge so i pull it outta my pen pocket give it a few drags , relax a little put it back in , if they ask i say well it works for me , and its tastie.

you attract more flys with honey i guess. when people see that i honestly just need the ecig and i dose how much i need when i need... and how much i enjoy it, they are more open.

on a side note smelling and tasting better is over rated , i found this out while cleaning out a stable....

 

[katink]

Maybe it can help to send them to read this Nonamebrand: E Cigarette Interview with David Sweanor
This is the man that has been leading the 'rights for non-smokers'-movement (prof. in Ottawa also). Maybe they will take his words more serious then yours...

 

[cclisamona]

thanks you so much....... i feel better now......

 

[leaford]

A smoker told me today that we know nothing about e-smoking so that's why he never got into it. The Canada crack-down makes total sense to him. I hear a lot of speculation from smokers I talk to. For example, the batteries could cause cancer, there could be something in the atomizer that causes something 10x worse than real cancer, glycerine could mess up your lungs, you can't trust products from China, etc.

I can't deny any of those speculations, anything's possible. Today I had 2 non-smokers and that 1 smoker rallying up against me. I was getting really frustrated.

How would you defend yourself against those speculations?

OK, to respond more seriously, I would point out that while there haven't been many studies on e-cigs or PG, there have been some, and all the evidence so far is that they are safe by any reasonable standard, and far, far safer than regular cigarettes.

E-cigs have been studied for safety by Health New Zealand, which found them to be safe, and long term inhalation of PG vapor was studied in the 40's and proved to not only be safe, but to steralize the air, reducing airborn infections.

What's more, they are very simple chemically and mechanically, so there's no realistic chance of some "unknown" factor. The battery is the same type, Lithium Ion, as in cell phones laptops, and ipods, and the atomizer is a simple heating coil. The only componants of the liquid are PG, Nicotine, and flavorings. PG is a simple chemical which is safely used in a variety of food flavors and dyes, cosmetics and medicines, precisely because its properties are already well understood and it is considered safe. At worst, some people are mildly irritated by contact with pure PG. It doesn't accumulate in the body, simply breaking down into pyruvic acid, which is a normal metabolite the body already produces and eliminates anyway.

And nicotine has been widely studied of course. While certainly not safe, the cardiovascular harm of nicotine pales against the respiratory damage and threat of cancer from smoke. Nicotine consumed by itself, without smoke, hasn't been widely studied yet, either, but studies of long term NRT users suggest that the long term damage is milder than you might expect, comparable to the effects of heavy caffine consumption.

And of course, all three componants are also in traditional cigarettes, anyway. So it seems pointless to worry about them now, doesn't it?

As for not trusting products from China, well, that's a whole 'nother kind of ignorance.

Smokers who pan PV's without evidence are just giving themselves yet another excuse to continue consuming tobacco.

That's a very good point.

Really? Propylene Glycol is already in analogs? If I would have known that one yesterday, I would have had a better chance in the debate/argument.

I think it's used to keep the tobacco at the right moisture level.

Truthfully, I really didn't want to quit. I just wanted to be able to smoke without all the health risks, the nasty smell, and the upset to my family. The thought of quitting smoking forever would fill me with a sense of dread and anxiety. ...

... However, when you tell them how you didn't want to give up your tobacco, your best friend, but that you found a new best friend who tastes better, smells better, and gets your non-smoking friends and family off your back . . . .

Exactly how I feel. I felt I needed to quit smoking, but I didn't want to. I enjoyed it too much. But now, I've got a new habit I enjoy even more, sans guilt.

 

[TMK2009]

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
Propylene Glycol
Paddock Laboratories, Inc.
3940 Quebec Avenue North
Minneapolis, MN 55427
Tel: (763) 546-4676
Emergency Assistance:
CHEMTREC® (24-hour) 1-800-424-9300
Paddock Technical Assistance: 1-800-328-5113
Creation Date: 20 April 2005 Revision Date: 20 April 2005
SECTION 1: PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION
PRODUCT NAME: Propylene Glycol, USP
COMMON NAME: Propylene Glycol, USP
CHEMICAL NAME: 1,2-dihydroxy propane
SYNONYMS: Methylene Glycol, Methyl Glycol, 1, 2-Propanediol
CHEMICAL FORMULA: C3H8O2
CHEMICAL FAMILY: Diol
SECTION 2: COMPOSITION AND INGREDIENTS
CHEMICAL NAME CAS# % w/w OSHA PEL ACGIH TLV IDLH
Propylene Glycol 57-55-6 100 NE NE NE
NE = Not Established
SECTION 3: HAZARDS INDENTIFICATION
EMERGENCY OVERVIEW: Material is a clear, colorless solution.
Symptoms of Overexposure by Route of Exposure:
Inhalation: No adverse effects via Inhalation.
Contact with Skin: Mild irritant and defatting agent, especially on prolonged contact.
Contact with eyes: May cause transitory stinging and tearing.
Ingestion: Relatively non-toxic. Ingestion of sizable amount (over 100 mL) may cause some gastrointestinal upset
and temporary central nervous system depression. Effects appear more severe in individuals with kidney problems.
Chronic exposure: Lactic acidosis, stupor, and seizures have been reported following chronic ingestion.
Aggravation of Pre-existing conditions: Kidney disorders

 

[orlampagal]

there's not much that would be worse than cancer - it's a miserable way to die. Father died from lung cancer.

How about Pancreatic Cancer, like my father had, and he died at age 43... Look at Patrick Swayzee... still smoking even through all the horrendous treatments to save his life... through pnemonia.. and he said... I will quit smoking when I HAVE TO. Hello... you have a cancer caused by smoking, you have pnemonia... don't you have to quit yet?

Sad Sad Sad.

Lisa

 

[OutWest]

^ Sorry to hear about your father. All the cancers are a nightmare and I cant imagine anything worse. Father smoked even on his death bed - had me light a cig for him the evening before he died.

 

[leaford]

fact is, we dont know. There are some preliminary test out (the NZ report, just to name it)...but its not enough. Since its my/our health i am interested.

Wouldnt make sense to smoke e-cigs just to find out its as dangerous as anas? The argument in regards to the atomizer seemed legit to me since the thought of inhaling something right off a glowing metal mesh (without a filter) seems "odd" to me.

I can be totally wrong...but we NEED that testing and until then everything is speculation and wishful thinking.

See, you're making the same mistake as Health Canada, etc. As a general priciple, you'd be correct, IF there were any true unknowns here. But really, it's more a case of the facts being unknown to most people than of them being truly unknown. PG isn't some mysterious untested chemical, it's just unfamiliar to most people, so it's easy to play on people's fear of strange chemicals. But really, it is widely used, considered safe, and is much better understood than it's being portrayed.

 

[leaford]

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
Propylene Glycol
Paddock Laboratories, Inc.
3940 Quebec Avenue North
Minneapolis, MN 55427
Tel: (763) 546-4676
Emergency Assistance:
CHEMTREC® (24-hour) 1-800-424-9300
Paddock Technical Assistance: 1-800-328-5113
Creation Date: 20 April 2005 Revision Date: 20 April 2005
SECTION 1: PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION
PRODUCT NAME: Propylene Glycol, USP
COMMON NAME: Propylene Glycol, USP
CHEMICAL NAME: 1,2-dihydroxy propane
SYNONYMS: Methylene Glycol, Methyl Glycol, 1, 2-Propanediol
CHEMICAL FORMULA: C3H8O2
CHEMICAL FAMILY: Diol
SECTION 2: COMPOSITION AND INGREDIENTS
CHEMICAL NAME CAS# % w/w OSHA PEL ACGIH TLV IDLH
Propylene Glycol 57-55-6 100 NE NE NE
NE = Not Established
SECTION 3: HAZARDS INDENTIFICATION
EMERGENCY OVERVIEW: Material is a clear, colorless solution.
Symptoms of Overexposure by Route of Exposure:
Inhalation: No adverse effects via Inhalation.
Contact with Skin: Mild irritant and defatting agent, especially on prolonged contact.
Contact with eyes: May cause transitory stinging and tearing.
Ingestion: Relatively non-toxic. Ingestion of sizable amount (over 100 mL) may cause some gastrointestinal upset
and temporary central nervous system depression. Effects appear more severe in individuals with kidney problems.
Chronic exposure: Lactic acidosis, stupor, and seizures have been reported following chronic ingestion.
Aggravation of Pre-existing conditions: Kidney disorders

Nice find, TMK!

Look at all that: "mild" "transitory" "sizeable amount ... some upset"

Yep, sounds 10 times worse than cancer, all right!

Oh, and BTW, those seizures that it mentions, that's not like epileptic seizures or anything, just leg kicking. Like restless leg syndrome. I get that anyway, but it does noticeably get worse when I am vaping heavily. At least, I think that's what it's referring to. I haven't heard anyone report real seizures, and we have a lot of chronic ingesters, here!

 

[bard]

Luckily, in discussions I have had with smokers whilst I've been vaping, I have yet to have anyone not be interested themselves, generally in a very positive manner, and heard no knockbacks against the PV.

Also, I've now been vaping for around 2.5 weeks, having switched overnight from 20-a-day analogs to my PV, and already, my chest feels looser, I have fewer aches and pains (both in the chest area, and in my joints) - generally feeling an awful lot better. For me, this just adds to my own personal arguement (which incorporates many of the solid information above), that this logically is better than analogs.

Only current side effect is that I'm getting some back-ache, but i think that's more to do with the hours I seem to spend mixing flavours whilst hunched over our coffee table