EU EFVI - European Free Vaping Initiative

[Berylanna]

Well, I doubt I'll get back to Czech Republic before November. I have friends there but they neither vape nor smoke. I could ask if they know any vapers; they didn't used to. If anybody from the rest of the EU likes beer at low prices, go there for a weekend!

Friends and families of vapers don't typically frequent vape shops, have you got an intiative to get them to sign too?

Also, what does the Dodo symbolize in the UK? Risk of extinction? Comedic teddy bear toy? Stupid bureaucrats? I was wondering what to suggest to people I know in other countries (Sweden, Czech Republic)

 

[BEARDEDAl53]

Oh, that is very disappointing. Wonder why so few vapers are signing. Any thoughts? Would like to help if I could.

6 Countries have been doing reasonably well but it needs every country to make a positive contribution as best as possible anyway .

Remember though that this is easily the best supported action ever managed in the EU so its not all totally negative ,reasons for so few vapers or people signing up in general

1) Unaware of the EFVI actions - difficult to overcome if the people are not on forums or Social Media like Fb + Twitter . Some flyers + stickers were used but could have been far more

2) Vendor Active Support Essential to the success - eg newsletters,e-mails to customers, even Efvi Support banner on the website or Fb pages were followed in maybe just 50% of the total (UK ,Finland was far better wrt this )

3) Petition + Campaign Apathy - tired of signing umpteen petitions + failed to see the difference in this one which is much more powerful


If you wish to help @Irish Lass in any way I can put you in contact with your Regional Co-Ordinator or if you send a message to https://www.facebook.com/efviuk?ref_type=bookmark or pm me whichever you wish

 

[BEARDEDAl53]

Well, I doubt I'll get back to Czech Republic before November. I have friends there but they neither vape nor smoke. I could ask if they know any vapers; they didn't used to. If anybody from the rest of the EU likes beer at low prices, go there for a weekend!

Friends and families of vapers don't typically frequent vape shops, have you got an intiative to get them to sign too?

Also, what does the Dodo symbolize in the UK? Risk of extinction? Comedic teddy bear toy? Stupid bureaucrats? I was wondering what to suggest to people I know in other countries (Sweden, Czech Republic)

I was in touch with Czech Republic activists a couple of months ago -they after much discussion agreed to take some UK Dodo Boxes as a trial for their Vape Shops (from memory they took 20).The main objection or concern of them was the reluctance of people to give out their id number - this however also applies to many other countries like France where signature collecting has been successful .

Two alternative methods to sign for people who don't want to go into a Vapeshop

1) The website EFVI: the European Free Vaping Initiative

2) Mobile phone Android app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.padalton.efvieuinitiative

Yep Dodobox - To save Vaping from becoming extinct Dodo Boxes | EFVI-UK

 

[SleeZy]

Sad day to sweden, they've now declared e-juice as medical threatment.
However as it looks right now we're still allowed to import the juices.

This case was about a swedish company that tried to sell nictoine juices. They drowe it to court and everything.
So we'll see what will happen in the future. Might be wrong place to write this. But i feelt the need to write it off. :/

 

[Berylanna]

Sad day to sweden, they've now declared e-juice as medical threatment.
However as it looks right now we're still allowed to import the juices.

This case was about a swedish company that tried to sell nictoine juices. They drowe it to court and everything.
So we'll see what will happen in the future. Might be wrong place to write this. But i feelt the need to write it off. :/

Not a reason to not sign though. Got forums? Does anybody sell the equipment? I would think the way the EU treats Snus would have people up in arms about the EU Tobacco regs in general.

 

[Berylanna]

I was in touch with Czech Republic activists a couple of months ago -they after much discussion agreed to take some UK Dodo Boxes as a trial for their Vape Shops (from memory they took 20).The main objection or concern of them was the reluctance of people to give out their id number - this however also applies to many other countries like France where signature collecting has been successful .

Two alternative methods to sign for people who don't want to go into a Vapeshop

1) The website EFVI: the European Free Vaping Initiative

2) Mobile phone Android app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.padalton.efvieuinitiative

Yep Dodobox - To save Vaping from becoming extinct Dodo Boxes | EFVI-UK

So, the could the Dodoboxes have open tops and be full of little post-it notes to take OUT of the box instead of putting something in? With some QR codes for how to sign without giving your number to everybody between the store and EFVI?

If this number is usable for identity theft, then is there a gov't place to give the signature directly and maybe get a receipt? It seems odd to require putting down a number that could be used for identity theft (can it?) in order to sign a petition -- you get to choose between having no voice or having your identity stolen? We don't have to put our Social Security numbers on petitions!

 

[Maytwin]

The EFVI is not really a petition as such, more a tool to enable EU citizens to meet Commission representatives in person and to present the initiative at a public hearing in the European Parliament (see here). The criteria to be able to do this is at least 1 million signatures with at least 7 member states meeting the required minimum number of signatories. It is therefore much more "official" than a petition and far as I know signatures will be verified, hence the need for ID numbers etc.

 

[Hattivatti]

All signatures are verified by member states when the signature amount is calculated after the 1 year signature collection windows has closed.

In Finland vendors have realized supporting EFVi supports also their business since if the total ban hits the marked whey have to close their business. What I have read from various vaping forums some EU based vendors just ignores this reality saying "there are so many vapers so no-one can stop access to vaping gear".

Since there is so much money involved by all Bigs (T/P/G) I would not rely amount of vapers will stop banning attempts.

 

[Jarmstro]

It's just another reason why the UK is likely to leave the EU.

 

[Berylanna]

It's just another reason why the UK is likely to leave the EU.

I noticed a big media storm about the right-wing result of recent elections in the EU, but it didn't mention vaping. I suspect even if vapers were a small part of that compared to immigration or banking issues, they might have contributed overall to the result.

On a Democrat forum in the U.S. (Daily Kos) I'm getting severely criticized for saying I'll vote for other parties -- the response is how could I abandon my principles for something as trivial as life-and-death? (well, actually, they're saying it's ridiculous hyperbole to call vaping an issue of life and death) -- does ANYBODY on the left 'get it' that the alternative to their 'echo chamber' self-congratulations over vaping can cause some right-wing victories, given that swing voters decide elections? They are turning non-swing voters into swing voters.

 

[jpargana]

I noticed a big media storm about the right-wing result of recent elections in the EU, but it didn't mention vaping. I suspect even if vapers were a small part of that compared to immigration or banking issues, they might have contributed overall to the result.

On a Democrat forum in the U.S. (Daily Kos) I'm getting severely criticized for saying I'll vote for other parties -- the response is how could I abandon my principles for something as trivial as life-and-death? (well, actually, they're saying it's ridiculous hyperbole to call vaping an issue of life and death) -- does ANYBODY on the left 'get it' that the alternative to their 'echo chamber' self-congratulations over vaping can cause some right-wing victories, given that swing voters decide elections? They are turning non-swing voters into swing voters.

This.

We, the PEOPLE, real persons out there, have made an ADULT and INFORMED choice. We chose an healthier lifestyle. When shady politicians decide, in their own interest, or in their buddie's, that we should NOT have that option available, based on (their) economical concerns, not on our health concerns, then we, the PEOPLE, should tell them with our votes, that we no longer want them to represent us - because they are actually NOT representing us, but the lobbies instead.

"Governments should protect people and regulate institutions". Not the other way around.

And I do not think it's a ridicule hyperbole to "call vaping an issue of life and death". Maybe they are trying to clear their own conscience by stating that.

But the truth is, we KNOW by now that tobacco CAN kill. So, at least for SOME people, it can actually be a life-or-death issue. Suppose a vaper reverts to smoking because of insane regulations - banning the most effective devices, for example - and then dies in the future from tobacco-related health problems. Who is to say that he would not have survived that, if he was allowed to keep vaping?

This is what makes me mad: regulators talk a lot about hypothetical, non-proven e-cig "harms" and "dangers" to regulate them out of existance, forgetting the very REAL, OBJECTIVE dangers THEY may create by such regulations.

 

[sonicdsl]

This.

We, the PEOPLE, real persons out there, have made an ADULT and INFORMED choice. We chose an healthier lifestyle. When shady politicians decide, in their own interest, or in their buddie's, that we should NOT have that option available, based on (their) economical concerns, not on our health concerns, then we, the PEOPLE, should tell them with our votes, that we no longer want them to represent us - because they are actually NOT representing us, but the lobbies instead.

"Governments should protect people and regulate institutions". Not the other way around.

And I do not think it's a ridicule hyperbole to "call vaping an issue of life and death". Maybe they are trying to clear their own conscience by stating that.

But the truth is, we KNOW by now that tobacco smoking CAN kill. So, at least for SOME people, it can actually be a life-or-death issue. Suppose a vaper reverts to smoking because of insane regulations - banning the most effective devices, for example - and then dies in the future from tobacco-related health problems. Who is to say that he would not have survived that, if he was allowed to keep vaping?

This is what makes me mad: regulators talk a lot about hypothetical, non-proven e-cig "harms" and "dangers" to regulate them out of existance, forgetting the very REAL, OBJECTIVE dangers THEY may create by such regulations.

Agree with your post, but made a slight correction there

 

[jpargana]

Agree with your post, but made a slight correction there

You're quite right there !!

 

[Anjaffm]

I noticed a big media storm about the right-wing result of recent elections in the EU, but it didn't mention vaping. I suspect even if vapers were a small part of that compared to immigration or banking issues, they might have contributed overall to the result.

On a Democrat forum in the U.S. (Daily Kos) I'm getting severely criticized for saying I'll vote for other parties -- the response is how could I abandon my principles for something as trivial as life-and-death? (well, actually, they're saying it's ridiculous hyperbole to call vaping an issue of life and death) --

... -- does ANYBODY on the left 'get it' that the alternative to their 'echo chamber' self-congratulations over vaping can cause some right-wing victories, given that swing voters decide elections? They are turning non-swing voters into swing voters.

1.
Well yes. The EU citizens are sick and tired of their tax money going to support banks, to support foreign countries, to support immigrants who come into our countries for the sole purpose of collecting welfare. All of which gets decided over our heads by some unelected bureaucrats in some office building in a city in a foreign country.

And all of this happening while governments are whining that the tax coffers are empty - for their own citizens.
There is no money for their own citizens - but there are billions and billions of taxpayers money that they pull out of their hats to support whatever the EU tells them to support. Huh???? - And to the left-leaning parties, all this giving away of money and giving away of authority to some unelected bureaucrats is not even going far enough. They want to give away more. More money - and authority - which is not theirs to give away in the first place. And if they are not busy with giving things away, then they are thinking up new regulations, prohibitions and bans for their citizens.

Left-leaning parties have lost out big time in Europe. They bite the hand that feeds them. And their arrogance is unbelievable.

2.
I saw some of that viciousness directed at you.
I have never seen so many completely blind and gullible people viciously attacking one of their own who has dared (!) to have a though of her own. Who has dared (!) to say something that is not prescribed and set in stone by the party line. Who has dared (!) to not parrot the official party line blindly.

Being from Germany, knowing my country's history, I do not have to say out loud what that reminded me of...

"Abandon principles". What principles? The principle of donning blinders and following the party line, no matter what the party line is?
That is not principles. That is stupidity. That is precisely that kind of behavior has led my home country into the abyss.

3.
Well yes, of course. If your own party abandons you and your interests, then it is no longer the right place for you. It is no longer "your own party". Because it does nothing for you. On the contrary. ("You" meant in the generic sense)

Same with UK Labour Party, same with German SPD (social democratic party).
The Labour Party is no longer for the working class. And the social democratic party is neither social nor democratic, let alone for the interests of the working class. Both parties have abandoned the working class. And they have lost the votes of the working class. And rightly so.

And if your Democrats do not see that, then they are more blind and more gullible than I thought. And that is saying a lot.
(I am still reeling from reading the vicious attacks on that Daily KOS against one person who dared (!) not to toe the official party line but who dared (!) to express an opinion of her own - on ONE SUBJECT).

 

[Berylanna]

And if your Democrats do not see that, then they are more blind and more gullible than I thought. And that is saying a lot.
(I am still reeling from reading the vicious attacks on that Daily KOS against one person who dared (!) not to toe the official party line but who dared (!) to express an opinion of her own - on ONE SUBJECT).

Actually the vicious attacks (as opposed to the merely puzzled comments coming from people who have barely heard of the vaping battle) were all from ONE vicious ANTZ who I have also seen commenting on other vaping blogs and on other vaping-related articles in major media. He's so bad that except for unred, who has already been in a big battle with him (and who defended me!) everybody else gave him the treatment he actually deserves, which is to ignore him as if he is not there.

I'm so busy with the FDA replies this week that I have not re-blogged there, but I have another article in the planning stages. I don't know how well such an article would play in the EU because it's based on fights local to the U.S., which is culturally almost exactly halfway between the developed world and the underdeveloped world.

There are 2 reasons for this, and I do not apologize for them.
1. Europe got rid of its Puritans 300 years ago. By shipping them here. As a direct descendant of said Puritans I cannot say I wish you had not. But bear in mind, if you wonder how we got so puritan.....this really IS where y'all sent them.
2. We keep getting immigration from undeveloped countries. They assimilate. It used to take a generation, but now they assimilate in about 10 years. Meanwhile, since this wave is high-tech folks, we're eating lunch with them and they're eating lunch with us and we both learn a lot about realities we'd never heard before.

However, I think our immigration ought to slow down a little, and since the current residents of each European country did NOT get their country by stealing it from the prior residents then encouraging immigration, I see no reason why you should feel honor-bound to be as open to immigration as we are, or to copy our policies. Each country should be able to choose for themselves.

In reaction to your elections, I saw liberals saying that separate national agendas caused all the former European wars. Funny, I was taught in school that creating empires bigger than nation-states caused most of those wars, and finally settling into nation-states where you don't try to take over other ethnic groups was what put an end to them. Do your own thing, and let me know where to donate for Dodo boxes for the countries that are not keeping up with EFVI!

 

[Anjaffm]

@Berylanna:
great posting, thank you!

However, I think our immigration ought to slow down a little, and since the current residents of each European country did NOT get their country by stealing it from the prior residents then encouraging immigration, I see no reason why you should feel honor-bound to be as open to immigration as we are, or to copy our policies. Each country should be able to choose for themselves.

Oh, we are not copying your policies, dear.
You see, the EU has allowed "freedom of movement" from one EU country to another.
Plus some completely unclear regulation that citizens of one EU country shall not "fare worse than own citizens" in another EU country.
- So, naturally, welfare recipients of the new, poor EU countries are packing their bags and moving to, e.g., Germany because German welfare payments are higher than the welfare payments in their own countries.
The government of Germany is taking steps to stop this abuse, however. Enough is enough.

 

[Berylanna]

Yes, but I heard some of your problems are from allowing non-EU citizens in in large numbers. However, California has some of the problems Germany is seeing, not sure how to handle that. But still, we are denying the Pomo Indians their own water rights, supposedly guaranteed by treaty, so here I have limited sympathy.

 

[SleeZy]

@Berylanna:
great posting, thank you!



Oh, we are not copying your policies, dear.
You see, the EU has allowed "freedom of movement" from one EU country to another.
Plus some completely unclear regulation that citizens of one EU country shall not "fare worse than own citizens" in another EU country.
- So, naturally, welfare recipients of the new, poor EU countries are packing their bags and moving to, e.g., Germany because German welfare payments are higher than the welfare payments in their own countries.
The government of Germany is taking steps to stop this abuse, however. Enough is enough.

In sweden they priority the immigrants, legal or not. Most of them are fortune seekers. I'm not sure how bad it is in germany but in sweden it's a mess.

 

[Coiso]

BUMP the signatures up.

 

[Jarmstro]

Just read the EU is about to ban vacuum cleaners. Seriously! What hope is there for e-cigs??? I want out.

If you set up a legislature it's going to legislate. No matter whether there is anything worthy of legislation or not.

John A