Electronic Cigarettes: The Bad, The Ugly, The Truth
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I especially liked the listing of present clinical trials that they are trying to get people to participate in.
I would be interested to see if their substance contains PG or VG. Obviously you don't want e-cigs around if you have to compete with them.
I would be interested to see if their substance contains PG or VG. Obviously you don't want e-cigs around if you have to compete with them.
I wish I could've been a fly on the wall in this Dr's office today, if only 5% of the viewers had a comment for them. I hope more responses pile up over the weekend for Monday discovery. I still think it would be most effective to remain as civilized as possible in those comments. JMHO.
I finally got around to sending my comments to the doctor this evening. I didn't think to copy before sending, so my words are lost to all but him and his staff now. I basically pointed out that nearly everything he stated was erroneous, propaganda and fear tactics targeting the gullible. My own experience quitting a 35 year habit using PVs. And, questioning his motivation. I'll probably now be the prime suspect as instigator, since I gave my actual city of residence. Anybody think he should be given a link to this thread, or a clue as to the cause of the spike in email?
Thanks NCC
and rats; I'll save my long distance pennies for the major issues and hope someone local gives them an earfull.
I'll watch this thread and if a website or email is eventually found pls post it
That would be ME!!! I'll DO IT, first thing Monday!! OMG someone calm me down!!
Ok, I got 2 days, so I don't go off half cocked, start telling me what you guys want me to do/say to these .......
I mean COME ON!! ".... then why are there multiple candy-type flavors?" (Man I wish I could swear here) Is he for REAL?! The VERY flavors he mentions in that article are the very same flavors of SCHNUPS!!!!!! So alcohol, and specifically schnups, is marketed to children, and they are also allowed to purchase it too, of course. OMG this guy needs me in his face.
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I agree it's the very worst article on e-cigs I've ever read. The good news is that it's only one of those outdated "look at me" local publications meant to make local "important people" feel important about themselves. And as was proved, nowadays most of these papers are being run out of one person's house. How much of a readership can they possibly have?
THE PROBLEM is, as you point out, there are thousands of similar little fish wrappers in existence. And, for each one of them, there are a few thousand people being fed BS, which they in turn spread by word of mouth to friends and family. I'm grateful to those who have taken the time to give this doctor your feedback.
My mom read it, and it scared the crap out of her ... knowing I was vaping. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to have some of the misinformation presented to me, as fact, by co-workers in the days ahead. People DO read them. The simple fact that the words are in print, and written by a DOCTOR, give them tremendous credibility in the minds of many people.
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Yep!! Look what i found in a quick google search:
Medical Uses
PG has been used as the aqueous-based chemical additive in asthma inhalers and nebulizers since the 1950s, with no serious side effects known. PG, because of its water-retaining properties, is the compound of choice for delivering atomized medication. It is also a common diluent for injectable medications, constituting 40 percent of the intravenous form of Phenytoin, an anti-seizure drug.
Great, go for it! I think it's very worthwhile even with small readership to try to correct this misinformation. Look how far this piece has travelled-I'm a long way from beautiful Florida!
I'd sugar coat the earful. Yes, I've cooled down a little. Good thing too.
Perhaps come at it from the angle that while the paper was trying to do a public service the information they were provided with is out of date/inaccurate. Try to get the person at the paper who is responsible for content and placement interested in getting the newer and more accurate information now available published in an upcoming edition with the same front page placement. If that doesn't work perhaps they would be interested in publishing it as an alternate point of view and really stir up reader interest and participation. Be ready to provide information and/or sources such as Casaa, etc. You can find these in the Casaa thread and elsewhere on this forum. Try to get a mailing or email address to follow up by providing the information and email addresses by that route also.
There are people on this forum much more capable than I am. Perhaps you have already PMed one or more of them.
Do what you are comfortable with and please let us know how you do.
Ok, I've calmed down, and can think straight.
First, nojoyet is right and brings up a point I hadn't thought about. I'll contact the paper itself and see if I can get another point of view on this subject printed. I will have to do research and make it sound as good as possible. Maybe troll the forum for a volunteer to help me or write it for me, being I'm not a scientist or writer.
Second, and maybe even more importantly, this guy is a) a doctor, and b) a researcher who has a negative attitude toward ecigs. WHAT AN OPORTUNITY!! I'll suggest to him to to do a study on this. Nobody else has apparently done a case, clinical or scientific study on it ecigs, so if I can get him to, and then convert him and publish the findings, we ALL benefit, and it could be used in court and congress.
First, nojoyet is right and brings up a point I hadn't thought about. I'll contact the paper itself and see if I can get another point of view on this subject printed. I will have to do research and make it sound as good as possible. Maybe troll the forum for a volunteer to help me or write it for me, being I'm not a scientist or writer.
Second, and maybe even more importantly, this guy is a) a doctor, and b) a researcher who has a negative attitude toward ecigs. WHAT AN OPORTUNITY!! I'll suggest to him to to do a study on this. Nobody else has apparently done a case, clinical or scientific study on it ecigs, so if I can get him to, and then convert him and publish the findings, we ALL benefit, and it could be used in court and congress.
Go to www.casaa.org and click on the Resources link.
There you will find the following sections...
--Lab reports
--Journal articles
--Document library
From there you can pick and choose the information that is most relevant to back up what you would like to tell them, and then you can even leave the information with them too.
Gladly, Vocalek did. Kristin seems to have a personal aversion to me and I don't see a chance of her participating.
I'm trying to get a friend of mine (vaper and ECF member) to join me when visiting the good DR. If done right, this could be the turning point of our ability to continue to vape.
My Letter to the Doc.
Dear Doc,
Just read your newspaper article about e-cigs, Propylene Glycol and flavored liquids used in e-cigs (with and without nicotine.) in our local paper.
Please tell me where you found the information that you quoted in your piece. As every bit of information I have read is to the contrary.
As a research Doctor you know that testing any product can be flawed or a result can be skewed to show a result that is in favor to the researcher that is commissioning the test.
The FDA itself admitted that the test for diethylene glycol may have been erroneous and was only found in trace amounts and in only one sample. Yet the media as seized this possibly flawed, one sample, trace amount as the banner for banning e-cigs. And the FDA did not re-test the sample and then published the findings.
So I beseech upon you as a research Doctor to do some testing yourself. Need a patient with COPD and an ex-smoker for the testing? I'm your local volunteer.
Please tell me that you didn't just cut and paste some propaganda from mainstream media or from the admittedly flawed FDA testing, and everything you stated is from your own personal research and personal knowledge.
Also just because ANY product has a flavoring does not mean it is being marketed to children. My Starbucks coffee was laced with chocolate mint and vanilla and I’m pretty sure they are not marketing to children. I have a bottle of spirits that is also flavored with some of the same food safe flavorings that are used in e-cig liquids. And we know that our policy makers have expressly forbidden and are actively campaigning so that these flavored spirits and liquors are NOT marketed to children.
Flavoring in e-liquid is added because cigarettes taste nasty and are foul. Who would want a e-liquid to taste like a ashtray? The cigarette industry adds flavorings to their products and we know that it is against the law to market cigarettes to children.
I have been using a e-cig since last July and DO NOT SMOKE traditional cigarettes anymore. I also have reduced my nicotine intake levels to near zero most of the day with a higher bit just now and again. I also use Vegetable Glycerin instead of Propylene Glycol as the carrier (as do many others) and what you and the FDA are proposing is to go back to traditional cigarettes (Known Killers) instead of the obvious less toxic alternative.
As a side note, my closest friend (a vapor also) is a chemical engineer and a patent attorney. We have both looked up and found that most all tobacco manufactures (Brown and Williams. Phillip Morris, ect) have re-applied for their EXISTING patents for electric cigarettes and nicotine extraction devices (for E-liquid use as stated in the patent) as they know that with a proper testing procedure and the right amount of money, e-cigs will be available in the future as a smoking cessation device or as a recreational smoking device as Federal Judge Leon ruled.
So I challenge you, a respected Doctor with associates in pulmonology, gastroenterology, cardiology, genitourinary, infectious disease, interventional cardiology and rheumatology, to lead this nation (no world) wide cause and do the proper research and testing and be the foremost leader in this emerging (lifesaving) technology.
Why be a follower when you can be a leader.
Thank you for your time, I await your response and pray you will not be just another follower of others bad ideas and press releases.
And I signed up for his newsletter and volunteered to be guinea pig too on his site.
Has anyone come up with the Lynn Haven Ledger website? No joy with Google (yet) I'm sure they would be proud to know they are printing junk stories. I'll be more than happy to clue them in. lol
Dear Doc,
Just read your newspaper article about e-cigs, Propylene Glycol and flavored liquids used in e-cigs (with and without nicotine.) in our local paper.
Please tell me where you found the information that you quoted in your piece. As every bit of information I have read is to the contrary.
As a research Doctor you know that testing any product can be flawed or a result can be skewed to show a result that is in favor to the researcher that is commissioning the test.
The FDA itself admitted that the test for diethylene glycol may have been erroneous and was only found in trace amounts and in only one sample. Yet the media as seized this possibly flawed, one sample, trace amount as the banner for banning e-cigs. And the FDA did not re-test the sample and then published the findings.
So I beseech upon you as a research Doctor to do some testing yourself. Need a patient with COPD and an ex-smoker for the testing? I'm your local volunteer.
Please tell me that you didn't just cut and paste some propaganda from mainstream media or from the admittedly flawed FDA testing, and everything you stated is from your own personal research and personal knowledge.
Also just because ANY product has a flavoring does not mean it is being marketed to children. My Starbucks coffee was laced with chocolate mint and vanilla and I’m pretty sure they are not marketing to children. I have a bottle of spirits that is also flavored with some of the same food safe flavorings that are used in e-cig liquids. And we know that our policy makers have expressly forbidden and are actively campaigning so that these flavored spirits and liquors are NOT marketed to children.
Flavoring in e-liquid is added because cigarettes taste nasty and are foul. Who would want a e-liquid to taste like a ashtray? The cigarette industry adds flavorings to their products and we know that it is against the law to market cigarettes to children.
I have been using a e-cig since last July and DO NOT SMOKE traditional cigarettes anymore. I also have reduced my nicotine intake levels to near zero most of the day with a higher bit just now and again. I also use Vegetable Glycerin instead of Propylene Glycol as the carrier (as do many others) and what you and the FDA are proposing is to go back to traditional cigarettes (Known Killers) instead of the obvious less toxic alternative.
As a side note, my closest friend (a vapor also) is a chemical engineer and a patent attorney. We have both looked up and found that most all tobacco manufactures (Brown and Williams. Phillip Morris, ect) have re-applied for their EXISTING patents for electric cigarettes and nicotine extraction devices (for E-liquid use as stated in the patent) as they know that with a proper testing procedure and the right amount of money, e-cigs will be available in the future as a smoking cessation device or as a recreational smoking device as Federal Judge Leon ruled.
So I challenge you, a respected Doctor with associates in pulmonology, gastroenterology, cardiology, genitourinary, infectious disease, interventional cardiology and rheumatology, to lead this nation (no world) wide cause and do the proper research and testing and be the foremost leader in this emerging (lifesaving) technology.
Why be a follower when you can be a leader.
Thank you for your time, I await your response and pray you will not be just another follower of others bad ideas and press releases.
And I signed up for his newsletter and volunteered to be guinea pig too on his site.
Has anyone come up with the Lynn Haven Ledger website? No joy with Google (yet) I'm sure they would be proud to know they are printing junk stories. I'll be more than happy to clue them in. lol
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Anybody else look up Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) and propylene glycol ?
About the only reference to propylene glycol toxicity is when it is used with injection vitamin shots in children with birth weights of 1500G or less.
Pretty sure no preemies are vaping.
There are a few more but most are related to the other types of propylene glycol in the industrial environment.
Which leads me to believe the good Dr. didn't read any lit on the website he referred too either.
Now nicotine on the other hand brings up all kinds of papers mostly about NRT and the dangers of CIGARETTES.
Frickin dork.
Some of the smartest people I have met are idiots.
Carol is going to town tomorrow, so I may be able to get away and go visit the Doc with you. Or at the least bail you out of jail, lol.
Oh and what strength do you want that Campfire Coffee, 24mg?
About the only reference to propylene glycol toxicity is when it is used with injection vitamin shots in children with birth weights of 1500G or less.
Pretty sure no preemies are vaping.
There are a few more but most are related to the other types of propylene glycol in the industrial environment.
Which leads me to believe the good Dr. didn't read any lit on the website he referred too either.
Now nicotine on the other hand brings up all kinds of papers mostly about NRT and the dangers of CIGARETTES.
Frickin dork.
Some of the smartest people I have met are idiots.
Carol is going to town tomorrow, so I may be able to get away and go visit the Doc with you. Or at the least bail you out of jail, lol.
Oh and what strength do you want that Campfire Coffee, 24mg?
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DonleyDoRight, that's an outstanding letter you sent to the good doctor. I assume you are the good friend Yankee802 referred to. Counting myself, that makes three "locals" in the thread.
Research Doctor? There's no way you can convince me that he is a bona fide doctor of any kind. Maybe he received his degree(s) online? His article sounds like something a 5th grader would have attempted for a science fair project.
I agree that he is an idiot, and I also agree with being angry about such garbage being printed and read by anyone. But the real down side is that because of us, he is now receiving attention, albeit not positive he has ruffled our feathers and just might be getting what he ultimate wants - attention. Just as a 2-year old does when they throw a temper tantrum.
He has no credibility in my book, and therefore that should be the primary focus of any attempts to contradict him, to discredit him, which in my opinion he has already done publishing such junk.
Just my thoughts.
I agree that he is an idiot, and I also agree with being angry about such garbage being printed and read by anyone. But the real down side is that because of us, he is now receiving attention, albeit not positive he has ruffled our feathers and just might be getting what he ultimate wants - attention. Just as a 2-year old does when they throw a temper tantrum.
He has no credibility in my book, and therefore that should be the primary focus of any attempts to contradict him, to discredit him, which in my opinion he has already done publishing such junk.
Just my thoughts.
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