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Ethyl Maltol

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by KimchiMonger, Aug 15, 2013.

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  1. KimchiMonger

    KimchiMonger Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 26, 2013
    Dallas, TX
    I see the Ethyl Maltol mentioned in juice recipes here but curious about it's use. What exactly does the Ethyl Maltol do for e-liquids? I notice many of those I've noted as future home samples call for say 1% on ingredient list.

    Is the stuff a liquid or solid in these applications? What's your experience with Ethyl Maltol before and after adding to your favorite recipes? Seems I've ordered a couple of dozen flavors for future DIY but didn't order that dern Ethyl Maltol and will have to place a quick order for a bottle.

    Wikipedia says about the fab liquid: "Ethyl maltol is an organic compound that is common flavourant in some confectioneries. It is related to the more common flavorant maltol by replacement of the methyl group by an ethyl group.[2] It is a white solid with a sweet smell that can be described as caramalized sugar and cooked fruit. The conjugate base derived from ethylmaltol, again like maltol, has a high affinity for iron, forming a red coordination complex. In such compounds, the heterocycle is a bidentate ligand."

    OH! I SEE! Not really but still open to any feedback from ya'll. Thanks!
  2. BlueMoods

    BlueMoods Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2010
    USA - Arkansas
    It's a sweetener, what we use is generally around 10% in PG so is liquid.

    FACE MEAT Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2013
    Costa Mesa, CA
    From Hoosier's blog:

    EM = Ethyl Maltol. You may as well tie one hand behind your back if you do not have some of this in your stash of stuff. (Two flavoring companies that I know of also sell this in a 10% solution as Cotton Candy Flavoring.) I use EM in a 10% solution and here is what it does:
    Tiny Bit (A fraction of 1% in your mix) - Gives a "body" to the vapor and may slightly reduce sharp notes.
    A Bit (Close to 1% +/- in your mix) - As above but will take the edge off sharp notes and may very slightly sweeten.
    A Bunch (1%-5% of your total mix) - As above plus sweeten
    A Load (10%+ of your total mix) - Cotton Candy flavor
    Note that some folks are sensitive to the effects of EM and can taste sweetness at 0.05%, but this is fairly rare, and some folks are resistant to the effect and will never get anything sweet out of EM, but it will still add a depth to their juice that is feel more than taste. I don't care if you buy Maltol crystals and make your own solution or if you buy a 10% solution of ethyl maltol premade, like I do, just get it and experiment with it.
    Ümit likes this.
  4. KimchiMonger

    KimchiMonger Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 26, 2013
    Dallas, TX
    Thank ya'll for such helpful direction. It makes far more sense now! Sure does. I have a couple of bottles in my shopping cart for next order over the weekend. I definately want any help in reducing any sharp notes or, in some cases, sweetening certain coffee flavors on the way. In looking at my recent flavor order, I notice I added "Smooth Flavor PG" by TFA. Is this Smooth similar to EM? Either way I'll want them both so I can add a drop to certain bottles and test them out. With that vendor, I think I took the last bottle for now as it's now showing out of stock.

    Again, thanks for the clarification. Any sweetening or smoothing ingredient will make all the difference on some of my future mixes.

    :vapor: Very Nice!
  5. Moogle

    Moogle Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 5, 2013
    Portland, OR
    I in my not infinite knowledge as a newb mixer have come to the conclusion that it is easy to overuse EM. If the recipe calls for it then fine. Try it without first on any experiments (as with any additive), let steep then see if it is needed. I have ruined a few batches with liberal use of EM (but I can't be sure because I've added the EM). Since I saw a lot of recipes with 1% EM, I thought I should add it to everything. I'm still trying out flavors and new to DIY so I've come to the conclusion that it's better to let the mix steep then see if I need additives. All others included Lemon Juice, Apple Cider Vingar, etc.
  6. SouthernBliss

    SouthernBliss Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 19, 2013
    Athens, Ga, USA
    It has been discussed recently that EM may dim the flavor some if you use to much. You may want to consider "sweetener" (which is sucralose) if your looking to noticeably sweeten a mix.
  7. WallyO

    WallyO Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 26, 2012
    Or use Cotton Candy flavoring which is Em but diluted at 10 to 1 which will give you much more leeway to not over do it.
  8. awsum140

    awsum140 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I've found EM to be an indispensable flavor when trying out new tobacco flavors. My standard mix for trying a new flavor is 2.5% tobacco flavor and 2.5% EM. Without adding the EM the flavors are far too harsh or strong for my tastes. One of the key effects of EM is its ability to "dull" or mute flavors making them much more subtle.
  9. Steven Pye

    Steven Pye Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 26, 2012
    Herkimer NY
    smooth is an additive that cuts high notes and blends flavors, it is not like EM, you would use it to tone down fruits or if you where mixing fruit and cream.

    there is another additive called MTS Vape Wizard by Flavour Art that if you mix tobaccos is a must have, it blends and enhances your tobaccos while providing body................ it works a magic that is hard to explain
  10. awsum140

    awsum140 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Thanks for the tip on MTS Vape Wizard. As a tobacco flavor guy, I'm always interested in enhancers that work on tobacco flavors. I'll have to order some and experiment.
  11. ohman

    ohman Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

    Oct 14, 2012
    It's like franks. .. i put that sh** in everything... ;)

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
  12. KimchiMonger

    KimchiMonger Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 26, 2013
    Dallas, TX
    I LIKE FRANKS. Good Magic.

    Various flavors from Wizard Labs & TFA just shipped out to me a couple of days ago. I've only written these down and prepared initial small percentages in e-juice calculator but I'll be mixing tobaccos with sweets such as:

    • Black Honey Tobacco with Regular Coffee or Caramel Capuccino
    • Captain Black with Egg Nog
    • Various Tobacco flavors (Capt. Black,M Type Premium,Tobacco Absolute) with Molasses or Horchata
    • Various tobaccos each with Caramel and Peanut Butter

    You get the idea so I'll try them all without Ethyl Maltol, Smooth, or MTS and then try again with those softeners.
  13. KimchiMonger

    KimchiMonger Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 26, 2013
    Dallas, TX
    Received and mixed up some tobacco flavors for future sampling and adding secondary flavors. Prepared 5ml - 75/25 VG-PG - 24% Nic

    Capt. Black, Honey Black, Tobacco Absolute, and M Type. Noted recipes and dated. Will steep 7 days and sample before noting stand alone favorite flavor and then add flavor among nuts,coffee, and caramel type sweets. Still have the ethyl maltol on order and will add a tiny drop to each while they steep as these can be a bit harsh.

    While awaiting the ethyl, I did receive TFA's 'Smooth Flavor' which I added to a rather harsh dragon's brew and 7 leaf combination. Worked it up to 6 drops in a 10 ml bottle and noticed a HUGE and very pleasant difference! All flavors very smooth and blended! No overpowering flavors driving dagers in my throat. Vaping the crap out of it right now. Very tasty. This is very handy and will keep it on hand with the ethyl maltol for tobaccos. What a difference this stuff makes.

    Thanks to all of you who've chimed in with your experience! Will follow up with the tobacco flavors later as well.
  14. Vapeman12

    Vapeman12 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 21, 2013
    I have some Ethyl Maltol on the way, I always mix in 15ml bottles, how much should I use of this? thanks
  15. mrcoolbp

    mrcoolbp Senior Member ECF Veteran

    I am one who is quite sensitive to EM. I use it at .55% in my tobacco mix. It's not too sweet here, but any more and it becomes too sweet, and really dulls the flavor. Also good to note that a lot of EM can contribute to gunking up your coils more quickly. Don't get me wrong though, you gotta have this stuff in your arsenal though for tobacco mixes!
  16. Vapeman12

    Vapeman12 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 21, 2013
    I'm hoping it will help some of my flavors be more strong.
  17. mrcoolbp

    mrcoolbp Senior Member ECF Veteran

    It won't, actually it dulls flavors and sweetens while adding "body."
  18. Vapeman12

    Vapeman12 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 21, 2013
    Really!, If so then I have gotten just as much bad advice on this site as good, A lot of folks said they use it as a sweetener. Was going buy and try some sweetener from walmart but everyone said this stuff would work better.
  19. mrcoolbp

    mrcoolbp Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Well for tobaccos we often recommend using EM as the "burnt cotton candy" flavor lends itself well to those mixes. It can begin to dull a flavor at higher percentages, but it can also mellow out a harsh flavor, so that can be used to your advantage. I would start around .5% EM and increase very slowly from there. Some people go as high as 2%-2.5% but I haven't had to go that high in my mixes. I can't see a need to go above 3% with this stuff. If you need more sweet, add a straight sweetener too.

    If you are making a sweet flavor (like desserts or fruits) you may want to go with just a regular sweetener (Sucralose is one I believe).
  20. Vapeman12

    Vapeman12 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 21, 2013
    I wanted to try it with my Black cherry, it is kinda nasty by itself, I only use VG, an either distilled water or Vodka, I only use 1ml of witch ever of those and been using 11.5ml of VG and 1ML of flavor to mix my 15ml bottles. I do not use nicotine or PG at all.
    I have come Cherry, and Vanilla i wanted to try ti with to, not sure if i can ever make those two any good both came from a place i wanted to buy from cause they were cheap, I will never buy cheap again.
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