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Expert opinons please. Advice more than welcome

Discussion in 'CASAA' started by tnt56, May 4, 2014.

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  1. tnt56

    tnt56 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I work at a certain place I can't discuss due to the ECF forum rules. My main problem is the Cloud Chasers that have evolved.
    I'm not referring to just those of us who would like an alternative to smoking cigarettes. I'm talking about the ones who want to see who can blow the biggest cloud and how long it will last.
    I suffer from sever COPD and my lung doc was thrilled that I started vaping. And I also use Swedish Snus.
    I've actually started having breathing trouble when the "cloud chasers flood the area".
    Is this what we really want the ANTZ to get hold of. I hope not.
    I've actually had people tell me it wouldn't hurt me cause it's just vape. While I agree with that statement. I will also say that a extremely heavy foggy day messes up my breathing.
    Most have no idea of safety and I've been called stupid for bringing up OHMS law and battery amp limits. (one was working at 8 amps on a battery that was limited to 6.8 amps. His reply was it's protected).

    IMHO this is getting out of hand.
    Sorry to vent out like this but this old man has had enough. I support CASSA. They can't even spell it nor do they care.
    It's really sad to me that we have a generation that is doing this to vaping.
    Thank you for the time.
     
  2. ~Sue~Feb2012

    ~Sue~Feb2012 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    So sorry about your medical condition tnt56 and problems with the cloud chasers. I understand your concern and don't get what's up with the cloud chasers. Not sure if CASAA can address the issue or not. I haven't checked but is there any mention of it on the CASAA website?

    I remember seeing a question about "clouds" on the Big survey here on ECF, hmmmm

    Personally, I haven't been around or seen any IRL. However, a non-vaping friend mentioned vapers doing "big clouds" that he saw just recently somewhere. He asked me what's up with that, (as if I'd know, because I vape,) but my exhaled vapor doesn't look like much of anything. My friend did say that those who were blowing big clouds were of a younger generation than ours. I've been wondering about this as it just came up a few days ago, and now I saw your post as well.
     
  3. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All ECF Veteran

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    You are Always going to see a Small Segment of any Population that may Use (or Abuse) something "Just for Fun".

    It's just kinda goes with the Territory.

    Unfortunately, Some of the More Obnoxious Cloud Chasers are definitely giving All Vaper's a Bad Name. But they are Not Alone. The same goes for Militant Vaper Everywhere people.

    e-Cigarettes hold a Tremendous Promise of Harm Reduction. It is a Shame that sometimes that they are Tagged in Some Peoples Minds just for the Actions of a Small Group of Individuals.

    But I don't see anyway to prevent it in Most cases.
     
  4. tnt56

    tnt56 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I agree that's there's not much we can do about certain types of vapors.
    It just makes me sad, that so many of us finally found something that works for us. If only they could learn to show some respect for others. I believe it would go a long way for a positive outlook.

    I don't believe CASAA can do anything about these problems we face. But this was the only place I felt safe posting my little rant without it turning into another battle that ECF does not need.
     
  5. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All ECF Veteran

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    I hear you.

    And Anything that Detracts people from viewing e-Cigarettes as a Viable way to Switch from Smoking while Reducing the Harm to themselves and those around them is a Shame. I'm just not sure what can be Done About it.

    Where I live, Orange County CA, a Fad among Many young people is to Chain Vape 36mg (or Higher) for the Buzz.

    Whereas I would Love to see a Way to Stop Kids from Doing this. I can see No Practical way to even come close without Severely Limiting those who are using an e-Cigarette to keep from Smoking.
     
  6. tnt56

    tnt56 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I have a solution to the problem , but it would involve a place where you get 3 hot meals and a cot to sleep in.
    I have brought this subject up to the president and CEO of the company I work for.

    Only time will tell. I just wish this silly cloud chasing would stop.

    Most of these kids are using 0 to 2 mg of nic. Just all VG.

    if I could drop that low. Heck I'd quit altogether and seek everything and be rich.

    It's just sad what the younger generation is doing to our lifestyle. Were trying to help ourselves and others.
    They don't have a clue. :(


    So give the ANTZ another bullet. They don't have a clue as to what ANTZ is nor care.

    I believe in CASAA. I refer to CASAA. I'm a very proud member of CASAA.
    Together we stand!!!!!! And we can and will be heard. (I pray).

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All ECF Veteran

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    It's kinda a Double Edged Sword when you Think About it.

    On one Edge, you have People that Say that e-Cigarettes are Harmless to the User and to those around them. And that taking in Nicotine in this way is Not Addictive.

    So if you believe this, there Isn't much of an Argument that can be made that Anyone shouldn't be able to use and e-Cigarette. No Harm. No Addiction. No Problem.

    On the Other Edge you have a Perception Problem. And that is that the General Public is less than Informed. And the Actions of an Individual, Especially a Minor, hurts All e-Cigarette Users. And can cause the Fence Sitters to go to the Con Side of things.

    I am Vehemently Opposed to Minors using e-Cigarettes. And do Not Like to See any Adult who Never Smoked picking up an e-Cigarette.

    But I am a Realist. And know that Minors are going to do what their Friends Do. And what is Cool. (How Many of Us Started Smoking at a Younger Age because it was Cool?)

    The Problem I see is Dancing on the Knife Edge to Alay peoples Fears that Minors with start Using e-Cigarettes and be Harmed by it, Health or Addiction-wise. While not Restricting e-Liquids to the Point where an Adult can Not Benefit from them (Banning Flavors, Low Limits on mg, Crazy Age Verification Requirements, etc).
     
  8. serenity21899

    serenity21899 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    My local vape shop had an employee who was into subohming, and the store constantly had a group that hung out there also into it. The store started making us sign a waiver before we had help with a coil, and the store enforced a policy of not building any coils under 1ohm in the store. Soon, the employee quit, and the problem took care of itself.

    I personally don't have any breathing issues, but I have allergies. A lot of vapor in the air bothers me. Now that the subohmers are gone, it's not an issue any more. And the store is just as busy as it have been before.
     
  9. aikanae1

    aikanae1 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    In order for vaping to take off it had to develop acceptance, or "coolness" to it. But I agree that I've seen younger crowds pick up on this almost as if it's a sport. You could say the same about shiney new devices too. I honestly think it'll burn itself out when the next big thing comes along. I saw a video of teens sticking nicotine patches all over until they got dizzy. :facepalm: In that sense, ecigs aren't special except they "remind people of smoking".

    For the 20 yr olds, if it's not ecigs it could be alcohol or drugs or street racing or whatever they think will get a rise out of those older than 30. I swear that's why they do half the things they do. For those over 30, well biology doesnt' always relate to emotional age.

    Another big factor in this cloud craze is a sense of freedom. How many decades has smoking been "hidden"? I really do think this'll burn out if left alone.

    I think what many other vapers are reacting to is a sense of respect and courtesy. If your in an establishment, there is a certain expectation that the owners / managers set the enviroment. If you don't like it leave - they loose enough business, they will change or some other place will become popular. There's also nothing wrong with saying something to whoever is on duty that night. I think most could blow big clouds outside just as well too - and that may happen.
     
  10. tnt56

    tnt56 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Very good reply's from all. And I thank you for that. It helps me to believe that there are some people that respect others rights and personal space.
    I'm the "go to guy" in the shop. Other owners call me on my day off for advice. I really don't have a problem with that, because they have a real question. I've already spoken with the Big Dog of the company. "I will not permit ANYONE who is employed by us to build for some one else. There is a Libality factor involved in this. I made a small test for the President of the company. Simple questions. Like why do you want to work here? Are Cloud Chasers the way to go? etc. What is Ohms law? No one passed.
    It just saddens me because I still see employees building or showing some DA how to build. "Well that's the way Ripp tripper did it".
    What resistance is it?
    What's that?
    Well duh. Hope you have a good doctor!!!!!!!
    Sorry but I'm a little more than peaved off at this subject. I'm no less than twice the age of the oldest person in our shop. The only reason I'm there is because of my knowledge. And this old dog can still bite. And bite I will and have.
     
  11. aikanae1

    aikanae1 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    DEFINATLEY! One of the pet peeves locally is seeing customers come in with insane builds that are dangerous from ONE shop. I can guarentee you they have lost so much business from that! It's almost funny to listen to the sweet and polite ways that people come up with to say DO NOT GO THERE. It's always a small world in a specialized industry like this. Your problem isn't with vapers, it's with the management. I'd be weighing my options, if I could get authority there to teach battery safety or looking for another place to work. FYI - all the shops around here do builds for customers nc. Several do classes.


     
  12. Luisa

    Luisa Super Member ECF Veteran

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    There has not been a vape shop in my town until this year. I have seen this nonsense and it is going to hurt all of us with more bans. I feel the store manager has a responsibility to educate all his vapor customers. This is not done. I was horrified 2 days ago when I walked into his shop. A couple with one toddler and one baby in a car seat were in the shop making purchases. All it would have taken was city council person to walk into the shop at that time and all of us would pay with serious restrictions. The manager should have asked one parent to take the children outside while the other shopped. Frankly I was horrified. The manager needs to educate his clients or risk that shop being closed and all the rest of us being stuck with restrictions. Most of these people are new to vaping and have no idea the battle we have all gone through. So--shop managers and owners--educate your customers.
     
  13. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All ECF Veteran

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    This is what Many Times starts a Small Stone to roll down a hill Eventually causing a Massive Avalanche.

    Many People here Love to Blame the ANTZ for All the Evils in the World. But Overlook that sometimes Vapers are the Cause of Some of Our Problems.
     
  14. tnt56

    tnt56 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    And that is a true fact!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  15. Luisa

    Luisa Super Member ECF Veteran

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    ---and we need to remind e-cig shops to always let their customers know the pitfalls of doing something inappropriate. They should warn them about not overheating their battery etc.,etc.,Blowing tons of vapor while they walk through a store. This has happened here and now there is a proposed extended smoking ban including e-cigs. I am disgusted.
     
  16. Nate760

    Nate760 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    With the two subsets of our population that aren't doing us any favors in terms of public perception (the cloud chasers on one hand, and the militant everywhere-vapers on the other), here's what I see as the main contributing factors:

    1) The cloud chasers I've encountered tend to be very young; I'd peg the average at 20-21 and I'm certain I've never seen one over 25. When you're 20 you're still very much a kid, and kids get great enjoyment from doing things that outrage and horrify adults. If the average adult has a dubious view of e-cigs in general, then the obvious course of action is to walk around with a massive vaping device blowing obnoxiously huge clouds that earn you the dirty looks and consternation you so crave. Additionally, it's pertinent to note that if you put a group of young males together and give them an activity that can be turned into a phallus-measuring contest, that's exactly what they're going to turn it into. I freely admit that if I'd been born 20 years later, I'd probably be a cloud chaser too, and for these same reasons.

    2) The militant everywhere-vapers are former smokers who still have a chip on their shoulder for all the years society spent turning them into social pariahs, and now they've found an avenue whereby they can, in their minds, get some measure of revenge for it. When you get right down to it, these people and their attitudes are an indirect byproduct of the last several decades of ANTZ propaganda campaigning, which succeeded in changing the popular consciousness to one in which smokers are perceived as contemptible, immoral, inconsiderate drug addicts who enjoy nothing more than poisoning innocent bystanders and small children whenever they get the opportunity. The resentment that smokers (and now certain ex-smokers) feel as a result is not at all unreasonable or unwarranted, but the members of the militant vape-everywhere crowd now think they're entitled to take that resentment out on the entire world around them, as though the scales of moral justice are somehow brought into better balance each time they blow vapor in someone's face "just because I can." Obviously, it's a misguided thought process, and one whose results reflect badly even on those of use who exercise courtesy and discretion when we vape in public, because people who dislike an activity are always more prone to base their entire opinion of that activity (and everyone who does it) on a worst-case scenario, which in this case is Mr. Militant Everywhere-Vaper. He just gives ammunition and affirmation to people who want to regard all e-cig users as slovenly bullies with no sense of social decorum.
     
  17. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All ECF Veteran

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    This, To Me, is Hard Not to Agree With.

    I worked with an Organization who was Crafting and e-Cigarette Use Policy. I was chosen because I was an Ex-Smoker who Now used e-Cigarette. And had Ties to the Company thru one of the Department Managers.

    I spent about 2 Months Providing Information, Answering Question, Writing Recommendations, Giving Oral Presentations, etc. Things were going Great. Better than I Expected.

    Then the "Incident" Occurred.

    Somewhat Out of the Blue, an Employee decided that they should be Able to Vape at their Desk. And made a Huge Scene about it. It Culminated with some Yelling that "This Isn't Illegal. I have Rights. You Can't Stop my from Doing It!".

    I when I was told about it, I watch Hours after Hours of Work slip thru my Fingers like Sand on the Beach. I was back to Square One. But this Time, I was Starting with Off with One Strike Against me.

    In the End, an OK policy was Reached. But I know that it would have been Much Better if One Person Actions Hadn't Occurred.

    And the Irony of it is the Employee who Made the Scene was Let Go for Non e-Cigarette Related Issues.
     
  18. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I really thought that the younger folks would never get into electronic cigarettes.
    I thought it would look stupid to them, and it would be far too much of a pain in the ***.

    Boy was I wrong.
    :(
     
  19. SingedVapor

    SingedVapor Flavor-Chaser Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I've been smoking a pack and a half for almost two years. When I started vaping, the highest i've ever been is 24mg nic. How is it even possible to chain vape 36mg, without getting sick? I have no idea how to even stop it, but that sounds really dangerous.

    As far as the cloud chasers go. If you wanna blow big clouds... fine. I do it occasionally when i'm in the privacy of my own home, but never in public. Doing it in public is disruptive at best. Besides for the safety problems regarding the battery, It makes us as a whole look very bad to the non vapers out there. I would say we need to spread the message and teach people about ohm's law and battery safety, but in my experience the people who need to know the most are the very people who refuse to sit down and take the time to understand what they are holding in their hand.
     
  20. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All ECF Veteran

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    I saw it Coming from a Mile Away.

    It's kinda the Hip thing to Do. And it doesn't have all of those Nasty Side Effects that Smoking does.

    Like getting Busted when you come home and your Parents Smell it on your Clothes. LOL
     
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