First timer, need assistance

[zoiDman]

It's Bill's Magic Vapor's 100 drop taste test. It's a method of making a very small representative sample of a new recipe, and tweaking it to your own taste preferences while taking notes on changes you make. Then using those results (including any changed % of flavorings) to adjust your recipe for making a bigger batch. It's found within his blog posts.



That's with only a single flavoring though (like CAP, TFA, etc.), right? Or in the case of OSDIY One Stop Flavors or Blends that are already combinations of flavorings...only 1 of those in the mixes made?

Just Me. But I think it is a Mistake to suggest anything involving Drops to someone who is Very New to DIY.

Don't get me Wrong, I'm not a Drop Hater. Or think that Drops are Inaccurate or Imprecise if the Same Dropper is used. Many of my Recipes are still in Drop Form for Flavorings.

Doing a Range of Flavoring Percentages is Good Practice on Measuring and Mixing Techniques. It also Cost Very Little to do. And if the Mixer is Math oriented, which I believe the OP is, they might not end up Throwing Out Any of the 5 Bottles.

Because once the Total Flavoring(s) has been Established, a Math Oriented Person could probably see how the Other Bottles could be Easily Adjusted.

---

And No. I'm not suggesting doing what I posted with Each Individual Flavor. I'm suggesting doing it to the Entire Flavoring if there is More than 1.

 

[JCinFLA]

Do you have a link to the details of that?

Using Bill's 100DT Taste Test Method | E-Cigarette Forum

It's a rather lengthy explanation, and it took me reading it a few times to "get it". All you're really doing when you do the test...is using 1 drop of each and every liquid that goes into making your eliquid...for each 1% of that ingredient in a recipe. When you're finished making the initial sample, it'll have 100 drops in it. Then you adjust your flavorings 1 drop at a time...to suit your taste, and take notes on any changes you make to them. The final number of drops you've used for each flavoring...is the % of each you use in your larger recipe. That's it in a nutshell basically.

I always use it for every single new recipe I try. Never had an eliquid that was "flush-worthy" or a down-the-drain one yet. Well, except 1, when I goofed up and forgot to shake my TFA Key Lime before making a batch of Key Lime Pie. It was horrible and did get flushed, but that was my mixing problem. The recipe I'd revised was spot-on to what I wanted. After shaking and remaking it...it was wonderful!

 

[leftyandsparky]

Using Bill's 100DT Taste Test Method | E-Cigarette Forum

It's a rather lengthy explanation, and it took me reading it a few times to "get it". All you're really doing when you do the test...is using 1 drop of each and every liquid that goes into making your eliquid...for each 1% of that ingredient in a recipe. When you're finished making the initial sample, it'll have 100 drops in it. Then you adjust your flavorings 1 drop at a time...to suit your taste, and take notes on any changes you make to them. The final number of drops you've used for each flavoring...is the % of each you use in your larger recipe. That's it in a nutshell basically.

I always use it for every single new recipe I try. Never had an eliquid that was "flush-worthy" or a down-the-drain one yet. Well, except 1, when I goofed up and forgot to shake my TFA Key Lime before making a batch of Key Lime Pie. It was horrible and did get flushed, but that was my mixing problem. The recipe I'd revised was spot-on to what I wanted. After shaking and remaking it...it was wonderful!

I love using this method!

 

[JCinFLA]

And No. I'm not suggesting doing what I posted with Each Individual Flavor. I'm suggesting doing it to the Entire Flavoring if there is More than 1.

OK, I thought I "got it", but now I'm lost again, since it's with all the flavorings in a new recipe. Let's take this simple one below that I make for example, if you don't mind helping me "get it". If I wanted to test it by doing those (5) 20mL mixes at the different TF%, how would I determine the different % of each flavoring to use in each of the 20mL mixes?

All TFA flavorings -
Strawberry Ripe - 9%
DX Banana Cream - 6%
Cotton Candy - 2%

 

[zoiDman]

OK, I thought I "got it", but now I'm lost again, since it's with all the flavorings in a new recipe. Let's take this simple one below that I make for example, if you don't mind helping me "get it". If I wanted to test it by doing those (5) 20mL mixes at the different TF%, how would I determine the different % of each flavoring to use in each of the 20mL mixes?

All TFA flavorings -
Strawberry Ripe - 9%
DX Banana Cream - 6%
Cotton Candy - 2%

Sure... Let's do 5% and I think you will see the Pattern.

For the Recipe you listed, the Total Flavoring is 17%.

So just working in Integers, where X is the Amount to reduce the Flavoring(s) by

=>

For 5% Total Flavoring:

(17)(X) = 5
X =5/17
X=.2941

Lets just use X=.3

SB => (9)(.3) = 2.7
DX-BC = (6)(.3) = 1.8
CC = (2)(.3) = .5

2.7% + 1.8% + .5% = 5%

So the Open Form equation becomes X = (Desired Total Percentage)/(Total Flavoring Percentages). (Works for ALL Recipes)

Such that X is the Decimal Scalar to multiply each Flavoring by.

 

[JCinFLA]

@zoiDman - So, in the above, how do you decide which one to adjust, so it works out to 5% exactly of the beginning TF%? I see you chose to lower the CC from .6 to .5. How come that one and not another...because it's a sweetener?

 

[JCinFLA]

@zoiDman - Which of these for 2.5% would be best to use?

SR = (9)(.147) = 1.32
DXBC = (6)(.147) = .88
CC = (2)(.147) = .29

1.32 + .88 + .29 = 2.49%

OR

SR = (9)(.15) = 1.35
DXBC = (6)(.15) = .9
CC = (2)(.15) = .3

1.35 + .9 + .3 = 2.55%

 

[zoiDman]

@zoiDman - Which of these for 2.5% would be best to use?

SR = (9)(.147) = 1.32
DXBC = (6)(.147) = .88
CC = (2)(.147) = .29

1.32 + .88 + .29 = 2.49%

OR

SR = (9)(1.5) = 1.35
DXBC = (6)(1.5) = .9
CC = (2)(1.5) = .3

1.35 + .9 + .3 = 2.55%

If you Meant .15 (instead of 1.5) as compared to .147, I really Don't think it Matters. Because I'm Not Sure you can Taste the Difference of 2.49% to 2.55% of Total Flavoring.

When doing something like this, you can Work to as many Decimal Places as one Likes. But there is a Point where they are just Numbers to the right of a Decimal Place.

I've seen some people work to 4 Significant Digits. Not sure how they Measure stuff that Small? LOL

 

[zoiDman]

@zoiDman - So, in the above, how do you decide which one to adjust, so it works out to 5% exactly of the beginning TF%? I see you chose to lower the CC from .6 to .5. How come that one and not another...because it's a sweetener?

I just Kinda Fudge it. LOL.

Chances are Sweetener is the Most Likely to be changed due to User Preferences. So I usually throw the Round Off error onto the Sweetener. It was also at the Bottom of the List.

For a Recipe that One has Never Made, I'm not sure it Really Matters. Because the Poster of the Recipe could just have Easily have posted...

All TFA flavorings -
Strawberry Ripe - 10.5%
DX Banana Cream - 5%
Cotton Candy - 1.5%

And you probably have the Same Chances of liking this Recipe as you do the Other.

 

[JCinFLA]

If you Meant .15 (instead of 1.5) as compared to .147, I really Don't think it Matters.

Yep, meant .15 not 1.5 in the above. Was just starting to edit it when the Alert popped up that you'd posted again! Going back to fix it now.

Thanks for the explanation of how you determine the amounts of each of the flavorings to be used, in the various TF% mixes!

At my age though, I think I'll stick with the 100DTT that I've been using for more than a year. I do enjoy learning new processes and how they work though. So for that...I thank you!

 

[dyanaprajna]

Most people might just gloss over all this math and technical talk, but I have a specialty in math (and a 147 IQ) so I'm learning from this. So your banter is not in vain, I'm learning from this.

 

[zoiDman]

Yep, meant .15 not 1.5 in the above. Was just starting to edit it when the Alert popped up that you'd posted again! Going back to fix it now.

Thanks for the explanation of determining it!

Hey No Problem JC.

Being able to Scale Up or Scale Down a posted Recipe is a Great Tool to have in your DIY Tool Box.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I just Kinda Fudge it. LOL.

Chances are Sweetener is the Most Likely to be changed due to User Preferences. So I usually throw the Round Off error onto the Sweetener. It was also at the Bottom of the List.

For a Recipe that One has Never Made, I'm not sure it Really Matters. Because the Poster of the Recipe could just have Easily have posted...

All TFA flavorings -
Strawberry Ripe - 10.5%
DX Banana Cream - 5%
Cotton Candy - 1.5%

And you probably have the Same Chances of liking this Recipe as you do the Other.

zoid,
You and Bill's 100 drop tt are basically doing the same thing except you are wanting to do a larger batch to test. The 100 drop tt averages to around 5ml and with each drop representing 1% it's enough to either drip or fill a small tank to test it.

eta
And @IDJoel further expanded it down to .1 %. Maybe he can chime in?

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - Since the "D" word has been Mentioned.

If anyone is going to Work in Drops, Know that a Drop of Pure VG has quite a bit of Difference in Volume than a Drop of either Pure PG or a Flavoring. And a Different Sized Dropper (opening) can make a Different Size Drop of the same Liquid.

If you do a New Flavor work-up in Drops, and then want to convert it to Percentages or ml's, you Need to Find the Drops per ml for the VG, PG/Flavorings for the given Dropper you are using.

Counting How Many Drops it takes to go from the 1ml Line on a Syringe to the 2ml Line on a Plungerless Syringe is goog way to do it.

Or you can Way the Drops also.

 

[zoiDman]

zoid,
You and Bill's 100 drop tt are basically doing the same thing except you are wanting to do a larger batch to test. The 100 drop tt averages to around 5ml and with each drop representing 1% it's enough to either drip or fill a small tank to test it.

The Thing is doing what I posted all 5 of the e-Liquids "Steep" at the Same Time. Where as if I add some Drops to a Mix, then I would like it to Steep for a Few Days.

Add a Few More, couple more Days, Add a Few More.... Well, you get the Idea.

Also there is the Drop => ml's thing I mentioned in the above post.

Lots of Ways to get from Point "A" to Point "D" when doing DIY. None are Really Wrong/Right as long as you can Repeat the Process.

And whatever Method one uses, if they Like It, then that is the Best Way.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

BTW - Since the "D" word has been Mentioned.

If anyone is going to Work in Drops, Know that a Drop of Pure VG has quite a bit of Difference in Volume than a Drop of either Pure PG or a Flavoring. And a Different Sized Dropper (opening) can make a Different Size Drop of the same Liquid.

If you do a New Flavor work-up in Drops, and then want to convert it to Percentages or ml's, you Need to Find the Drops per ml for the VG, PG/Flavorings for the given Dropper you are using.

Counting How Many Drops it takes to go from the 1ml Line on a Syringe to the 2ml Line on a Plungerless Syringe is goog way to do it.

Or you can Way the Drops also.

Totally agree. Some average drops to ml at 30 drops=1ml and some average 20 drops = 1ml. Best to always measure the equipment you are using yourself to get your own average.

 

[zoiDman]

Totally agree. Some average drops to ml at 30 drops=1ml and some average 20 drops = 1ml. Best to always measure the equipment you are using yourself to get your own average.

Absolutely.

Depends on the Liquid and it depends on the Dropper Size. And if you live someplace with Temperature Extremes, or if you pull something out of the Frig, Temperature can effect things.

 

[leftyandsparky]

BTW - Since the "D" word has been Mentioned.

If anyone is going to Work in Drops, Know that a Drop of Pure VG has quite a bit of Difference in Volume than a Drop of either Pure PG or a Flavoring. And a Different Sized Dropper (opening) can make a Different Size Drop of the same Liquid.

If you do a New Flavor work-up in Drops, and then want to convert it to Percentages or ml's, you Need to Find the Drops per ml for the VG, PG/Flavorings for the given Dropper you are using.

Counting How Many Drops it takes to go from the 1ml Line on a Syringe to the 2ml Line on a Plungerless Syringe is goog way to do it.

Or you can Way the Drops also.

I use 100 vg and always warm it up!

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Would you mind helping me with figuring a math formula out?

Say using @JCinFLA's recipe and that I get tired of measuring these 3 ingredients out each time I mix. I want to do a 30 ml bottle of just the flavors in the recipe itself so that when I mix a batch of juice I can have just one measurement.

 

[zoiDman]

Would you mind helping me with figuring a math formula out?

Say using @JCinFLA's recipe and that I get tired of measuring these 3 ingredients out each time I mix. I want to do a 30 ml bottle of just the flavors in the recipe itself so that when I mix a batch of juice I can have just one measurement.

OK...

JC's recipe had 17% Total Flavoring.

17 goes into One Hundred 5.8824 times. Let's just say it is 5.88 times.

If you Multiply each of the Flavoring Percentages in JC Recipe by 5.88, that would tell you the Percentages of each Flavor for your Combined Blend.

I think they come out to

SB = 52.92%
DX-BC = 35.28%
CC = 11.76%

Now Multiple the Decimal Percentage Equivalents by 30 to get the ml's of each flavoring.

SB => (.5292)(30) = 15.7ml
DX-BC = (.3528)(30) = 10.58ml
CC = (.1176)(30) = 3.53ml

It's a Tad Off do to the Rounding I did. But your Measurements will be a Tad Off also. So I Might all even out.