For All You Milk N Honey Fans

[DrLucky]

Big break through Milk and Honey lovers!
Sorry it took me this long to get back to everyone.
When I first got my shipment in, I mixed dpgfla's recipe except for the Acetl Pyrazine because somehow I forgot it in my first order! So I used the same % of hazelnut (TFA) as as substitute. Anyway, I came to the same conclusion that the caramel or brown sugar was too overpowering. I've been letting that batch steep since and will update on it shortly.
While waiting for my second order of ingredients to come in, I attempted OP's recipe but with 2.5% Peanut Butter and 7% Graham Cracker clear.
I'm very sure that the honey taste in Cosmic Fog's original is from Graham Cracker and not caramel or brown sugar.

However, OP's recipe is close but missing something specific to complete the taste. Luckily my second order came in and I have the Acetl Pyrazine I need, as that is definitely that missing taste.

I believe I have a great starting place to finalize this clone!
My best batch I've been vaping all day is:

50/50 PG/VG (Because that's what CM makes theirs at)
Peanut Butter (TFA) 2.75%
Graham Cracker clear (TFA) 5%
Marshmallow (TFA) 5%
Vanilla Custard (CAP) 2%
Vanilla Swirl (TFA) 2%
Banana Cream (TFA) .5%
Acetl Pyrazine (TFA) .7%

I took the first batch out of the crock pot this morning and tested it for the first time after an overnight speed steep. It was VERY close. Seemed a little too sweet at first. By tonight, though, the Acetl Pyrazine is coming across too strong and buttery. I'm new to DIY and perhaps I'm not getting an accurate .07 ml (I'm making 10 ml samples). Perhaps the extra in my needle and syringe tip added too much extra. It seemed just right this morning, but it's becoming unsatisfying at this point as it's lost its creamyness.
Also, the banana cream probably needs to be upped a bit as I am not tasting it at all at that %. With my crock pot speed steep method, I may be steeping right past its flavor.

Few more thoughts:
I have not tried, but plan, to test Bavarian Cream (TFA), Toasted Marshmallow (TFA), and Sugar Cookie v2 (CAP) as others have had them in their batches, in this "beta" stage of the clone.
I'm also unsure about the % on marshmallow. Marshmallow is my favorite flavor in M&H so I feel like I'm biased toward that flavor.

Who else is working on this?! Reply and let us know!

 

[gray]

Ok so I didn't care too much for the OP's recipe - well actually I did right after mixing but after like 72 hrs I didn't care for it. I think it was too much peanut butter for me personally. When I 1st started mixing I made some nasty pb mixes.


Anyway I have everything for this except for AP - I realize the amount needed is minute but will it make a difference?


Should it be substituted with something?

I'm with you on the PB overwhelming everything else on the original post. I lowered it to 1% and added more graham cracker. This turned out good.

 

[DrLucky]

Getting even closer!

After reading up on marshmallow, I found out that less is more. To bring out that smooth creaminess I've lowered The Marshmallow to 2%

Peanut butter was too muted anywhere below 2.5% so I'm keeping it there.

Increasing the banana cream to 1% is definitely the right start, I haven't tried it any higher, but maybe with a time steep a higher % of banana will get it to fall into place.

There's still a small bite to the mix and I'm wondering if its from the Grahamcracker clear at 6% so I'll lower it back to 5% in the next batch.

AP at 0.7% feels right, im just being more precise with my measurements.

Peanut Butter (TFA) 2.5%
Graham Cracker clear (TFA) 6%
Marshmallow (TFA) 2%
Vanilla Custard (CAP) 2%
Vanilla Swirl (TFA) 2%
Banana Cream (TFA) 1%
Acetl Pyrazine (TFA) .7%

I tried a batch with just 1% Bavarian Cream (CAP) but the taste threw it all off, so I'm ruling it out.
I'm not completely set on the vanilla custard and vanilla swirl, definitely the right place to start but I believe these ingredients and their percentage will be the keys to fine-tuning the mix. What other similar ingredients could we try in its place?

I'm going to pick up toasted marshmallow in my next order to add and compliment the regular marshmallow.
I also plan to get graham cracker dark to see how different it turns out.

The tweaks at this point are going to be to try and dim the vanilla taste while increasing sweetness.

 

[dpgfla]

This has been a tough one to crack. When I was working on my attempt at a clone I had been vaping on M and H for a good 2 weeks straight and I think it had thrown my taste buds off. After not touching M and H for a couple of weeks I can now tell a major difference between it and my clone attempt. Hopefully someone else can come closer. In the meantime I did mix up some peanut butter, banana cream and some sugar cookie and it is quite delicious.

 

[DrLucky]

It's getting close to the end of the day and that latest batch is getting too buttery again. Not sure if it's the AP or peanut butter.
Could even be too much graham cracker clear.
The 2% marshmallow is giving body to the bit of sweetness and cream, but it definitely needs more creamy of a background to mellow with.

Still not getting that hint of banana, so I'll up that to 2 and see how it goes.

Dpgfla, I'm going to add the sugar cookie v2 tonight to try to accomplish this. Do you think I should replace one of the vanillas or simply add it? Would you predict that it will add the sweetness I'm looking for?

 

[dpgfla]

You may get more of the creaminess that you're looking for by upping the banana cream, like you said. The sugar cookie, to me at least, provides the throat hit that I get out of the Milk and Honey. It also adds a very subtle sweet flavor in small doses. You may want to take out both vanilla's and start off with just the sugar cookie. Then, if it needs the vanilla I'd go with a bit of vanilla swirl and maybe leave the custard out

 

[DrLucky]

Last night I mixed up this brew and tried measuring the amounts with the tip of the syringe plunger instead of the liquid level to get a more accurate amount:

Peanut Butter (TFA) 2%
Graham Cracker clear (TFA) 4%
Marshmallow (TFA) 2%
Vanilla Custard (CAP) 2%
Vanilla Swirl (TFA) 1.5%
Banana Cream (TFA) 1.5%
Sugar Cookie V2 (CAP) 2%
Acetl Pyrazine (TFA) .7%

I put it in the crock pot over night and tried it this morning.
Still the Peanut Butter/Graham Cracker/Acetl Pyrazine mix seemed to be coming across way too strong.
I've been making 10 ml bottles; I had the less-is-more idea to just add 5 more mls of blank PG/VG/nic to the batch.
That smoothed it out a LOT!
The buttery taste is still too much, so I need to figure out whether I need to decrease the graham, peanut butter or the AP.

I need to figure out how to evenly decrease the percentages so I can get similar results when making 10 ml bottles. (Decrease each by 1/3 I believe)

 

[DrLucky]

New batch with only a 10% flavor mix is currently speed steeping. I will update tomorrow when it's ready:

Peanut Butter (TFA) 1%
Graham Cracker (clear) (TFA) 2.3%
Marshmallow (TFA) 1.5
Vanilla Custard (CAP) 1.3%
Vanilla Swirl (TFA) 1
Banana Cream (TFA) 1.3
Sugar Cookie (CAP) 1.3%
Acetl Pyrazine (TFA) .3%

Here's hoping less is more!

 

[DrLucky]

Well it's pretty good and the flavours are more pronounced with overall less flavoring, but the graham cracker is too overpowering, so I'll reduce it to 1.5% next time

 

[nicobeak]

I've been making different batches of OP's version with Cap Vanilla Custard and Vanilla Custard V2. It seems the one I make with V2 has the throat hit like M&H.

Also, maybe try 1 drop AP per 10ml. Haven't tried it in this recipe, but that is where I find it to be most effective w/o overwhelming. Rarely 2 drops.

 

[DrLucky]

A small amount of AP is definitely key, .3% is definitely the best so far.
Has anyone tried plain honey? Once I decrease the graham cracker I'll try adding honey (I believe I have TFA honey). It's best in very small quantities, right?

 

[nicobeak]

A small amount of AP is definitely key, .3% is definitely the best so far.
Has anyone tried plain honey? Once I decrease the graham cracker I'll try adding honey (I believe I have TFA honey). It's best in very small quantities, right?

I don't have experience with any of the honey flavors, but I have been warned to only use small quantities (<1%)

 

[2naphish]

A small amount of AP is definitely key, .3% is definitely the best so far.
Has anyone tried plain honey? Once I decrease the graham cracker I'll try adding honey (I believe I have TFA honey). It's best in very small quantities, right?

i add my TFA honey by the drop to a mix. usually 1 drop per 30 ML in a complex mix. honey is also a loooong steeper. i just found a bottle in my cupboard of 3% Honey and its not bad as a standalone after 90 days.

 

[nicobeak]

So, I bought a bottle of Milk n Honey yesterday for the first time in about 4 months. I tried it against OP's (vapz1) original post that had steeped for about a month. I've been vaping batches of his for the past few months and thought it was closer than it is. But trying the real deal, I see that his version is pretty far off. I like it better, though! It is definitely lacking some banana, and it is much creamier. I guess that's the beauty of DIY; try to clone something good, and end up mixing something better (sometimes). When my LA banana cream comes in I may try adding a little and see how that goes for me.

 

[Rin13]

So what does the actual stuff taste like to you?

 

[nicobeak]

I wish I were better at describing what I taste, it would probably make the whole DIY thing easier. Most of the time it is just a "this tastes different", but as I sit here dripping the real deal I can tell you that I definitely get honey from it (shocking!), but it is distinct, almost like a baklava vibe. I get a very tiny bread-y note and a tiny nutty note, although I may be confusing the two. At lower power, I don't really taste much banana. At higher power I taste quite a bit of creamy banana. As for the "milk" aspect, I definitely get creamy, and vanilla, although I have a hard time picking out vanillas. Graham cracker makes sense, but I don't really taste it. I haven't tried it standalone, though, so I don't know what I'm looking for.

I guess the main difference in the two is that I do not get any vanilla custard in Milk n Honey, and the "nutty" aspect is more prominent in the clone.

Again, I wish I could give better descriptions than "this is good" and stuff like that.

 

[Rin13]

It's good enough. Lol. It is difficult trying to describe certain flavors. I've never had the real stuff so I'm just trying to figure out the general consensus on what it's supposed to taste like. I did do a version with FA honey and it was very overpowering... But I guess that particular brand and flavor is very very strong, even at the 0.5% I used. So I did what was recommended and did a 10% dilution using the honey flavor. I am going to retry a blend with that and see what happens. I liked the flavor, it was just too strong. I'm going to omit the peanut butter too or drop it significantly. I may use toasted almond instead and see how that goes.

 

[nicobeak]

Let me know how the honey dilution tastes in it...and the toasted almond, too. The nutty note is very very subtle for me. I've never tried toasted almond, but M&H reminds me a lot of baklava, so it might work at a low percentage.

 

[dpgfla]

I have the tfa toasted almond and I can almost guarantee that it is not a flavor in milk and honey. Maybe a plain almond, if anything. I am almost inclined to send you some Milk and Honey so you can see what all of the fuss is about. It's good stuff.

Also, I'd almost say that the tfa peanut butter and banana cream are 2 flavors that are a necessity in this clone. It's just that the % and added ingredients need to be worked out somehow. I think the sugar cookie is in there too.

 

[DrLucky]

At this point I've made 10 different brews and I'm pretty sure I'm just going to need to buy some M&H again to remember exactly what it tastes like.

I am also confident that Peanut Butter and Banana Cream are definitely in there. As well as Acetl Pyrazine and Marshmallow.
.
The variables are the different vanillas, the honey taste (I'm leaning toward Graham Cracker still) and possibly toasted marshmallow for flavor.

But without having vaped actual Milk and Honey in a few weeks, I can't get it any closer than it is now.