"freezing" juice?

[malyden]

I had a bit of an idea... if you had a mini-fridge and set the thermostat in it as high as it would go (making it a warmer temp not cooler) would it be at an acceptable temp for the PG? Does anyone have a mini-fridge that they are not using or could keep empty for a few days? If so set it as high as it will go, put in a thermometer and check in after a couple days to see what the temp is. If its around say 65 degrees than we may be on to something. Anyone out there who can test?

I think that this type of idea is your best bet. It appears that sun's problem was that her fridge was set too cool. I personally keep my juice in the bottom drawer of my sewing cabinet which sits right near my AC vent.
For those of you that might keep large stock of juice - I found an article on how to turn a mini fridge into a wine fridge to help keep the temp stable How to Turn Your Mini Fridge Into a Wine Refrigerator: 7 steps (with pictures) - wikiHow
You would just need to set the temp for optimum juice storage Store in a dry ventilated area at a temperature of 15°C to 30°C (59°F to 86°F). Protect from light.

 

[dedmonwakin]

So those who are for refrigeration......Do you get vacuum sealed bottles? If so, I'd like to know where since I would love to have my bottles vacuum sealed. Last time I read, hand tightened isn't air tight.

So what happens to these bottles or any bottle in the fridge, from room temperature to refrigeration temp? Are these bottle caps, whether dropper or 1 liter sized opposed to expansion?

Wouldn't expansion allow for not only condensation of the liquid with in the bottles, but draw in mouldy air from the fridge, resulting in cross contamination?

I've ordered from 15 suppliers, and I've never gotten a vacuum sealed bottle. Closest thing, I guess was a bottle that had a shrink wrap, loosely fitted on the cap from TW. But, still not air tight or a bottle from myfreedomsmokes in a sealed ziplock, with a do not tamper lable...still not air tight.

Again, condensation is not a good result. Condensation isn't limited to forming from gaseous particles with in your container, it can be drawn in as well.

 

[UptownRiot]

I'm ordering 5 liters worth, and I'm setting up a wine fridge to keep it in. I've noticed that the wine fridge I have doesn't have what I'd call a reliable "air tight" seal on it. So I'm looking in to options for sealing on the bottle side.

 

[SharonLM]

When suppliers note to store something in a cool, dry place while providing no specific information, then it's pretty much the same as "avoid heat or direct sunlight." So I'd be willing to bet anywhere from 65 deg. to 72 deg. is safe for storage up to a year or so. If one lives in a warm environment and does not have air conditioning, or if you're stock-piling loads of juice, then I agree with VaporPhreak about the dorm fridge.

Well Daniel sometimes I just feel so stupid. This is definitely one of those moments when I'm slapping forehead and saying, well duh!

I was keeping my e-liquid in one of those dorm refrigerators that I keep a lot of our herbs and vitamins and batteries etc. in and keep it fairly low anyway. I'll just put the stuff back in, lower the temp a little more and I'm good to go.

I'll still report back with regard to any information I get regarding keeping in fridge anyway.

I'm off to put liquid back in refrig and still slapping forehead thinking duh!

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Why would we all turn our back on the MSDS of the very product that comprises what that comprises what the majority of e-liquid is made from which is PG:

The PG MSDS again states that the the following:

Storage and Handling Practice: Store only in approved containers. Keep away from any incompatible materials or conditions. Store in a dry ventilated area at a temperature of 15°C to 30°C (59°F to 86°F). Protect from light.

Where in the world did the Fridge ever come into play other then some myth. Even if the inside of your house is 90 degrees you would still be only 4 degrees outside the upper limit!!! That is my final thought on it as I am not going to turn my back on an MSDS sheet of a product---been there --done that---and payed the price for it.

Sun​

 

[SharonLM]

So those who are for refrigeration......Do you get vacuum sealed bottles? If so, I'd like to know where since I would love to have my bottles vacuum sealed. Last time I read, hand tightened isn't air tight.

So what happens to these bottles or any bottle in the fridge, from room temperature to refrigeration temp? Are these bottle caps, whether dropper or 1 liter sized opposed to expansion?

Wouldn't expansion allow for not only condensation of the liquid with in the bottles, but draw in mouldy air from the fridge, resulting in cross contamination?

I've ordered from 15 suppliers, and I've never gotten a vacuum sealed bottle. Closest thing, I guess was a bottle that had a shrink wrap, loosely fitted on the cap from TW. But, still not air tight or a bottle from myfreedomsmokes in a sealed ziplock, with a do not tamper lable...still not air tight.

Again, condensation is not a good result. Condensation isn't limited to forming from gaseous particles with in your container, it can be drawn in as well.

OK, so now I've got my items back in the fridge and now after reading this I'm back to confusion. Except, I do have this little fridge turned as low as it'll go and I think it should be the best situation. It's cool in there, but not cold, it's dark in there and it may be the best situation. I still await answers from the supplies.

One of our suppliers on here that I order my juice from is posing the question to his supplier and because he orders a lot, we may get a decent idea.

 

[SharonLM]

Why would we all turn our back on the MSDS of the very product that comprises what that comprises what the majority of e-liquid is made from which is PG:

The PG MSDS again states that the the following:

Storage and Handling Practice: Store only in approved containers. Keep away from any incompatible materials or conditions. Store in a dry ventilated area at a temperature of 15°C to 30°C (59°F to 86°F). Protect from light.

Where in the world did the Fridge ever come into play other then some myth. Even if the inside of your house is 90 degrees you would still be only 4 degrees outside the upper limit!!! That is my final thought on it as I am not going to turn my back on an MSDS sheet of a product---been there --done that---and payed the price for it.

Sun​

I understand and agree with you Sun. Except for me, and forgive me, it's I who I'm concerned with right now. Here in Georgia we can have days and days of temperatures in the high nineties that are quite often very humid. So I just want to do what's best in my situation. If I had air conditioning, after reading all of this, I'd NEVER put it in fridge. Again, because of the high temps we have, I worry about it.

ETA: Please know I'm not disagreeing with you. Matter of fact I believe you and your telling of your experience so much that this is why I'm questioning the best action to take in "my" situation. If I were others who have air conditioning and had their e-liquid in the refrigerator, I'd take it out immediately.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Well here is what Big Jim reported from down it TX:

"I bought it form WetYourStick. I never had a problem with it before and I stored it in the fridge in a zip lock bag as it can get quite warm in my apartment during the day I'm at work and I know keeping it in a warm area will ruin it. All my other flavors are fine, just the menthol. Never had a problem with the juice I get there.

I did notice trying it in a new cart the acidic taste is not as bad, so it may be the carts I was using. It may be just my nose and taste buds are changing over time too. I opened the bottle of menthol I got from bestecigs with my kit and it smells pretty much the same. I'm begining to think more now that it's not the juice changing, it's me and my equipment (using new atomizer, for example).

I just found the thread about your experiance storing in the fridge ruining your juice, so for now my juice stays out of the fridge. 8-o "

See http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ssion/27600-did-my-menthol-flavor-go-bad.html


So Sharron is the temputure really 90 degrees in your house?

Sun

 

[SharonLM]

Well here is what Big Jim reported from down it TX:

"I bought it form WetYourStick. I never had a problem with it before and I stored it in the fridge in a zip lock bag as it can get quite warm in my apartment during the day I'm at work and I know keeping it in a warm area will ruin it. All my other flavors are fine, just the menthol. Never had a problem with the juice I get there.

I did notice trying it in a new cart the acidic taste is not as bad, so it may be the carts I was using. It may be just my nose and taste buds are changing over time too. I opened the bottle of menthol I got from bestecigs with my kit and it smells pretty much the same. I'm begining to think more now that it's not the juice changing, it's me and my equipment (using new atomizer, for example).

I just found the thread about your experiance storing in the fridge ruining your juice, so for now my juice stays out of the fridge. 8-o "

See http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ssion/27600-did-my-menthol-flavor-go-bad.html


So Sharron is the temputure really 90 degrees in your house?

Sun

Sun, we "can" go days and days with the temps in the HIGH nineties in our home. So, what do you think?

 

[Jim Davis]

Another report from Texas. Summertime temps run 100 to 105. I saw 116 once. My house goes from 70 to 80 degrees depending on the outside temp. My juice is in a bedroom drawer. Never had a problem with it.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

If it was me Shannon--I would leave it the yeck out of that damn Fridge. even at 90 degress, you still are in the margin of error on the MSDS---the Fridge is an e-liquid killer.

You know this issue came up months ago --I think in March and there where others who reported loses in the fridge, but not one report of this vial rancid taste occuring outside the fridge. So just based on that alone, the question really is "why would we put it in the fridge". The MSDS of PG would state it if it was warranted. It does not state that that is the proper way to store it.


Sun

 

[SharonLM]

Another report from Texas. Summertime temps run 100 to 105. I saw 116 once. My house goes from 70 to 80 degrees depending on the outside temp. My juice is in a bedroom drawer. Never had a problem with it.

Then they must have air conditioning. If my home stayed in the 70 to 80 degree range I'd not question this and my e-liquid would be out of the refrigerator.

I've had two answers from suppliers. They are writing their suppliers with the question and say they will get back to me.

What would you bet we get the generic answer that it's best to keep the e-liquid in a cool dark place in such and such a temperature range. I'm going to have to think on this, do some more googling and go from there.

Sigh.

 

[Jim Davis]

Sharon; Yes, in TX, you can't survive without AC. If you want to invest the money, maybe a mini fridge set on its lowest setting? Or on a timer, that turns it on for a minute or two each day?

Or you can take my advice. The best place to store your juice is at my house.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Sharon--It gets hot as the dickens here in FL this time of year and if I leave the house and kill the air, it still is never above 85 actually in the house??? Even friends that go north that I check their homes for as shut everything down, I never walk in and find the house inside temp about 90?? Do you have a temp reading actually in your house?

Sun

 

[SharonLM]

Sharon--It gets hot as the dickens here in FL this time of year and if I leave the house and kill the air, it still is never above 85 actually in the house??? Even friends that go north that I check their homes for as shut everything down, I never walk in and find the house inside temp about 90?? Do you have a temp reading actually in your house?

Sun

First, Jim, you are too much! LOL. No Sir, you AIN'T getting my e-liquid..

Sun: Actually I do. I've an inside thermometer and it does quite often get in the nineties, low nineties in the house and not much higher than that. So your home gets about 85 during the day when you're gone? I wonder with the cool air at night if it doesn't kind of keep your home somewhat cool most of the day before it heats up again.

Can you imagine no air, day and night? I'm used it to, so I'm OK and I do have an air conditioner in one room that once in a while gets turned on. Maybe a day or two during the whole season. So far this year it's been on about 8 hours, that's it.

I'm still leaning toward taking it back out of the fridge. Again, Jim, it's a dorm fridge I have separate from our fridge we keep our food in. I have it set right now just below cool. But as Sun and others have mentioned, it's the possibility of the condensation. And dedmonwakin (sp?) mentioned that this condensation can be absorbed into containers that aren't even opened.

 

[kinabaloo]

The birth of a new myth

I've not decided on the matter as yet (though I lean towards freidge as ok/good) but I see a danger in jumping to the wrong conclusion based on just a few experiences that may actually have other explanations (were just coincidental).

One of PG's main uses is as an anti-freeze (it freezes at -65C) so it is obviously stable at fridge temps (~5C).

It might be the main ingredient but not the one we need to worry about most (nicotine and flavours).

 

[SharonLM]

Our own Jaax from Juicy Liquid is the first to answer of 7 different companies I wrote. I'm going to post exactly what he wrote and what I wrote:

I wrote:

On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Sharon XXXX
<only1way2thecross@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Sharon XXXX
Email: XXXX

------------------------------------------------------

I'm hoping you can help as I've ordered from you in the past. There's quite
a discussion going on in one of the e-cig forums and we're all wondering if
it's advisable to store our liquids in a refrigerator. Especially during
these summer months. Many of us don't have air conditioning and it's
difficult to find a cool place. Some have told us that refrigerating
liquids will cause them to go bad. I thought rather than take an
individuals advice, I'd just write the company and inquire.

Any help at all will be truly appreciated.

Thank you so much!

Sharon XXXXXXX

I might add, Jaax and his wife live very close to me.

His Answer:


Simple. If you have more than a 3 months supply or so, go ahead and refrigerate it. No issue.

The enemy of eliquid is light and air. So keeping it in a tightly sealed container in a cool dark place is the best bet.

Light can cause strange chemical reactions (see posts about Johnson Creek "green" liquid) and air reacts with nicotine (depletes it.)

Jaaxx

ETA: I'm still deciding and will wait for more answers. I truly believe Sun is trying hard to help us avert the loss he experienced.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

You Know I first posted about my e-liquid disaster about 3 months ago--maybe more and others reported it as well. About 3 weeks ago I kept getting PM's to repost it which I refrained from doing so as to not cause another big debate. Then people started quoting what I had said so I reposted it with the caviet to do what you like as I am just reitereating what happended --not speculation.

Now we have here Big Jim also bitting the dust as well and the MSDS telling us the temp ranges as well. So I will stick to what I said as I have never scene one person ever here post they lost any e-liquid being stored outside of a refidgerator. The "green" deal with was an issue with JC and not any other e-liquid ( again their were reports on JC going green in the Fridge as well).

So again, I will say I am going by my own experience as well as others and the MSDS. Good luck!!!!-------Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

I have looked at some MSDSs but can't figure out the rationale; maybe there isn't one; only that there is no benefit or need to store at a lower temp. But PG is not the only constituent in juice.

 

[RjG]

Hmm, one of my plans this weekend was to convert one of those water cooler/mini-fridge into a lockable juice cooler. Then I read this.

Sun - were your bottles opened before refrigerating? And would there be a likelyhood that the tip touched your carts while filling? I wonder if the problem is bacteria entering the opened bottle, and then growing on the condensation inside the bottle when refrigerated?

So maybe un-opened bottles in the 'fridge, and opened ones should stay out?

I'm getting quite a large collection - I sincerely doubt I'm going to get into half of the bottles before next year, so storage is becoming a concern for me.