Got Calipers Contest - Free Stuff

[OCD]

This contest is to serve the non Tootling folks, there will be two prizes awarded and heres how it will work.

First Prize - 10 glass tubes for any device we supply tubes for (10 of the same tube sorry no mix and match) and they will come some clear and some decorated (random our choice but there will be some very special ones not available through our site). If we get measurements for a new device that we do not currently have tubes listed for it AND that person is the winner they will be able to choose that tube.

To enter this part of the contest you have to own calipers and post the measurements you get (preferably in mm). The needed measurements are OD (Outside Diameter), Wall (thickness of the glass) and Length and Size of the oring that seals on the glass. Additional measurements that are always appreciated are any metal parts of the device that can conflict with the tolerance of the glass such as part that goes inside of the tube or in the case of some devices that have sleeves or recesses the measurement of part the glass must be able to go inside of.

Manufacturer, device name and version if applicable need to be included. If the device is a reproduction or original this should be noted also.

This information will also help folks in identifying well designed devices, at least those that take into account tolerance specification for using glass on the device and we can have a little fun while we go at it.

The second prize will be a set of digital calipers so folks who dont have calipers can join in too and if they win the calipers they can measure their own devices in the future. Entry for this is simply by posting in this thread.

If there are any questions on clarifying the important measurements or how to take them please ask, also feel free to post pictures of the atomizers you are offering measurements on. Lastly multiple entries by different folks of the same device are encouraged as this will help to identify any quality concerns or variances in the manufacturing of these devices.

 

[OCD]

Please feel free to spread the word on this, the more participation we have going on it the more likely we will do something like this again.

 

[OCD]

Hmmm, really thought there would be some interest in this for those with RBAs. Well if it doesnt go over we will go back to the Tootler stuff as it seems they like free shiny things

 

[mac63]

While I don't have a need for glass tubes at this time but a set of digital calipers would really be handy at times.

Thanks for an interesting contest!

 

[daveid777]

Shame my glass for my URBA is already on it's way, or I'd enter, I even have photos of the pmma tank being measured.

 

[OCD]

Daveid, those tubes were interesting to make. I had a hiccup on the Blue one and had to redo it but I included the oops tube as it was interesting and thought you might like the extra. You have given me an idea though for another contest and that would be for folks who have ordered custom tubes such as yourself since they can verify fit and have picture of not only the measurements but also the tubes on the device.

You can still enter here though, I dont care if we get multiple entries on the same atomizer even since as I mentioned it would help to see any variations that might exist in versions or manufacturing. Also, with glass having plenty of extra tubes can never be a bad thing.

 

[daveid777]

Unfortunately, I can't post pictures of the glass you made yet. As I am on vacation, and missed delivery today, but in about two weeks I will be posting some shots and can give feedback on the fit. And the extra glass will come in handy as I am going to get another URBA, I really like this tank.

 

[OCD]

Nice pictures Daveid, the other important measurement is the metal part of the atomizer that goes inside the glass. Thats the part that lets us know if the device has enough tolerance built into it to fit glass, the metal part should be no larger than 0.25mm under the NOMINAL ID of the glass and preferably 0.30mm under so for example a 22 x 1.5mm tube would have a nominal ID of 19mm so the device should not be larger than 18.75mm to make sure even when glass runs towards the smaller end of its spec it will still work fine.

 

[daveid777]

Nice pictures Daveid, the other important measurement is the metal part of the atomizer that goes inside the glass. Thats the part that lets us know if the device has enough tolerance built into it to fit glass, the metal part should be no larger than 0.25mm under the NOMINAL ID of the glass and preferably 0.30mm under so for example a 22 x 1.5mm tube would have a nominal ID of 19mm so the device should not be larger than 18.75mm to make sure even when glass runs towards the smaller end of its spec it will still work fine.

I'll have to take that one after vacation, I can also measure my Lemo 2 at that time.

 

[OCD]

The Lemo is a different type of seal. This type seals on the end of the tube, the first I remember using this was the AGAT atomizers. The nice thing about this type is ID is not usually critical, in fact for the AGAT we offer two wall thicknesses so folks who want a bit tougher tube and are willing to give up a little capacity they can have it.

The important dimension with this type is max OD as they generally sit down into a bit of a well to keep them centered on the device and aligned with the seal which is most often a flat washer but may be an oring, I wish makers would use an oring slightly recessed rather than a proprietary flat washer because that would make it simple for folks to be able to keep their gear working long after the maker has moved on to the next best thing. Anyhow if the tube sits down in a well like this (or if the atomizer has an external metal sleeve) that OD is crucial because the glass say for a 22mm size may actually measure up to 22.3mm and still be within the glass makers specification.

Folks paying big money, and I mean $60 and up should really be measuring these things if the device is meant to use glass and they want to be able to replace that glass at some point down the road. It could be poor design or just manufacturing variance but either way if the metal is too close to the glass nominal size they could well have problems getting replacements. I think when they assemble these marginal devices they keep trying glass until one fits and thats how it ships. I actually got a device where the glass in the box with the atomizer would not fit. I also wonder if sometimes off spec glass might be culled and when they have enough they make a run of say v2.1 that fits that off spec glass. That would fit the marketing ideal because as that initial run goes out the door replacement glass will never be found so consumers have no choice other than buying a new device. Sad but sometimes it seems impossible to explain things any other way.

One customer sent me their 10ml Kraken because we had shipped her glass twice and the glass did not fit. On measuring it I found the lower deck had nearly 0.2mm under nominal ID but the top deck was only 0.02mm under nominal so absolutely no clearance at all for any glass running under. This would be half the glass manufactured would not fit.

 

[stevegmu]

Hey OCD, with the popularity of the Kabuki tank, you should think about updating the site to say the Zen short tube also fits the Kabuki. I know I didn't know they used the same size glass until I asked...

 

[OCD]

Dang Steve, I had another customer let me know this and have it on my list but havent gotten around to it. I will certainly make sure it gets done.

This is another point potential device makers could consider, utilizing existing sizes would be a benefit to the customer. I wonder if the Kabuki makers did this on purpose? If so a tip of the hat to them. Personally I think 22 x 1.8mm is the best size in this range because it tends to hold better tolerance and of course it is quite a bit stronger of a piece of glass. There is a slight loss of capacity but that is really minimal. We use the 22 x 2.5mm for our cartomizer tanks because that what they are, TANKS and we like em that way.

 

[stevegmu]

Zen likes to use interchangeable parts, so the Zen short glass is the same as what he uses with the Kabuki. I know many have broken theirs and have been looking for places with replacements. As the Kabuki tanks get more and more popular, a lot of people are personalizing them with colored glass and glass with designs. I have a Kabuki tank on order, so will measure it when I get it, but I know it is the same as the Zen short. A Kabuki refresh kit would be nice with new glass and colored o-rings...
When ordering glass, is option 2 which is cloud the same as frosted?

 

[OCD]

Cloud is white so it does have a frosted look to it, to me frosted is sandblasted or etched so I couldnt say the 'same' as our colors are painted on. The solid colors have a bit of texture to them and can be fairly opaque but The Mrs always tries to make sure that at most holding it up to a light you can still see liquid through them. If you are looking for it to be lightly done just mention it in the notes, she does a great job of adapting to what the customer is after.

I added the Kabuki to the Z Short description BTW, thanks.

 

[stevegmu]

Cloud is white so it does have a frosted look to it, to me frosted is sandblasted or etched so I couldnt say the 'same' as our colors are painted on. The solid colors have a bit of texture to them and can be fairly opaque but The Mrs always tries to make sure that at most holding it up to a light you can still see liquid through them. If you are looking for it to be lightly done just mention it in the notes, she does a great job of adapting to what the customer is after.

I added the Kabuki to the Z Short description BTW, thanks.

Ok, thanks. I ordered 3 Zen short tanks from you today. They are a bit thin and I broke one this afternoon...

 

[OCD]

Thats part of why I mentioned the 22 x 1.8mm tube. It is pretty crazy how much stronger that little amount of thickness adds and honestly the capacity lost is minimal. Cannot tell you how many times I have dropped my 22 x 2.5mm cartomizer tank on a heavy provari and come out unscathed, in about three years of using a setup like this I have broken one tube and that was a fall to asphalt from my lap getting out of a pickup truck so about 4' of drop and it wasnt the first time it had happened nor the last it just hit right that one time.

No reason atomizers couldnt use thicker glass, its all about what the customer buys that drives the market. Those folks that end up with 1.0mm walled Fused Quartz devices are the ones I really feel for because honestly those devices should have never been designed that way. FQ is much harder than Boro which means less forgiving in an impact, couple that with the very thin walled glass and it might break looking at it.

We try to keep various sizes of glass available just so people dont end up with something they cant use for the lack of being able to glass for it but the Quartz is very expensive material and of course that cost has to pass along in its pricing.

 

[stevegmu]

Thats part of why I mentioned the 22 x 1.8mm tube. It is pretty crazy how much stronger that little amount of thickness adds and honestly the capacity lost is minimal. Cannot tell you how many times I have dropped my 22 x 2.5mm cartomizer tank on a heavy provari and come out unscathed, in about three years of using a setup like this I have broken one tube and that was a fall to asphalt from my lap getting out of a pickup truck so about 4' of drop and it wasnt the first time it had happened nor the last it just hit right that one time.

No reason atomizers couldnt use thicker glass, its all about what the customer buys that drives the market. Those folks that end up with 1.0mm walled Fused Quartz devices are the ones I really feel for because honestly those devices should have never been designed that way. FQ is much harder than Boro which means less forgiving in an impact, couple that with the very thin walled glass and it might break looking at it.

We try to keep various sizes of glass available just so people dont end up with something they cant use for the lack of being able to glass for it but the Quartz is very expensive material and of course that cost has to pass along in its pricing.

I've never broken an IBTanked tank and broke the Kabuki tank on the first day I had it. I have a feeling the standard 25mm IBTanked glass will fit, but not be flush, as the glass would overhang the caps, which wouldn't be a big deal, but the length and ID would be key for this.If the standard IBTanked glass is 1 inch tall, I will order one to see. All I have are XL and standards...
Ordered one. I think it will fit but look a little funky, but better than breaking a tank when being out and about...

 

[OCD]

Steve, I dont think that will help you any. Our 25mm tanks are actually 25.4 x 2.4 for and ID of 20.6mm, even if they were true 25 x 2.5 the nominal ID would still be 20mm where you are looking for 19mm nominal ID. There is a 24 x 2.5mm Boro available which would get you to the 19mm ID but we do not have it in stock AFAIK.

The problem here is that it is not only the glass thickness that comes into play, the thicker glass will certainly be tougher but with it protruding beyond any protective metal parts of the device puts it at greater risk. I mean if you drop your device and it lands nearly on its side if the metal ends are the same diameter as the glass or slightly larger than they will hit first. If the glass is larger thats what will take the brunt of the fall.

The other thing that we did with our tanks is isolating the glass from the metal, thats what those little flat washers on the caps do. The flat washers are not there for any kind of sealing just to absorb any shock from an impact to the cap before it can transfer into the glass. Glass is funny, it can be incredibly strong yet the slightest tap from something hard like metal can shatter it. This is one of the things I like about the Lemo/AGAT end sealing design because an impact on the cap or drip tip doesnt send that shockwave into the glass. The issue with the Lemo is the proprietary flat washer and limited availability of being able to purchase them. We tried unsuccessfully to contact the maker to bring them in in bulk but never got any kind of response from them.

 

[stevegmu]

I see. Well, I'll just order some end caps and cartos when the standard length is in stock and just have another IBTanked carto tank.

 

[mac63]

So I'm guessing this didn't really get anywhere as a contest.