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I've had a number of PM's popping up this week about what I think of the drill-bit-method, how I build my coils, how TO build coils, etc. This seems like a good place and a good time to explain some things...
There's a couple of things here I want to point out: First of all, in my experience with the drill bit method, I also have all of the same problems and issues you pointed out at the end of your post. With a proper coil build, NONE of those problems occur.
You see, when you use the drill bit method- especially if you happen to wrap your coils extra-loose- your coil doesn't contact the mesh enough to both stay saturated AND use the mesh as a heat sink to transfer excess heat- in other words, you starve your coils and then allow them to get way too hot. This causes the break-in period, the "genny tilt" problem, the wicking issues related to loss of flavor, and any other indications that the wick is not staying saturated.
It's a good method to use if you absolutely cannot do a normal coil build, but it is just that- a stopgap before building a well-functioning setup that requires no concessions on your end.
In my experience:
-Follow the majority of your method, except forget the drill bit/winding the coil first- you want contact with the mesh across the whole coil.
-Oxidize the seam of your mesh very well before rolling your mesh, and carefully fold the seam over and re-oxidize. The juice burn is mostly voodoo to me now, it's the torch that matters. When placing your mesh in the wick hole, you want the seam facing the center post, where it will not contact the first wrap at all. Oh yeah, and for me, solid wicks all the way.
-Wrap your coil with a firm hand, but not tight- you want the slightest bit of slack in there for adjustments later. No need to double up the leads/twist the leads, etc- if you have no hotspots, you will have no hot leads either. If you do have hotspots, work them up or down the coil with a metal implement until the coil glows evenly. This extra step is the only one avoided with the drill bit method, but sometimes its not even necessary- even if it is, learning how to do this step and building a proper coil will help you avoid ALL the issues you mentioned at the end of your post.
It takes a matter of minutes to prepare a wick and coil setup like I described, at least after getting experienced with it. I vape without a "genny tilt", sometimes near-vertical- testing the limits of capillary action. There is never a loss of taste, or lack of it- I mean, why would we use genesis atomizers if the taste is muted? That defeats the purpose of these devices. Leaving fill screws out is a thing of the past- nowadays, with a proper wick and coil, you can leave the fill screw in AND have the biggest wick taking up the entire wick hole, and instead of wicking problems, you'll see bubbles coming out of the bottom of the wick
.So, if ya wanna stick with your method, go ahead. If you want to forget about all of the issues you're having, try mine
. I hope this answers some of the PM questions people have asked me. Perhaps I should do a full tutorial soon to get the word out, we shall see.Edit: I forgot to mention, there is only one situation where the drill bit method is necessary AND doesn't affect the build- when you have a very, very short wick, and very little space to work in. In my experience, this would mean a setup like a vertical-SS build in a Phoenix, A7, or other "dripping" atty. In that case, you want to almost struggle a bit when inserting your wick into the coils- that way, you know that the coils are touching the wick completely, and with these drip-atty setups, the short length of the wick will counteract the ill effects of the DBM.
Loosening the connection between the positive post and the positive lead is doing only one thing: preventing the current from efficiently travelling from one to the other, which means you're losing voltage. To save teh high-performance of your atty, the best way to solve the top-coil-hotspot issue is to 1. make sure your wick is fully oxidized, 2. make sure you fold the seam over AND that the seam is not contacting the top coil (face the center post), and 3. learn to properly adjust your coils. Skipping step three puts you right back to what I was explaining in the post above. Best of luck
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Thanks for the insight V, I am by no means an expert, just shared what I did on my first build that worked for me. I am well open to advice on perfecting the craft.
I'm still vaping on that first coil/wick now. I want to put your advice to use on the next coil and had planned on a solid wick next. Your results are what I'm looking for, including not having to leave the fill screw off..
Question:
(Even though I don't have an oxidation issue) When you say, "-Oxidize the seam of your mesh very well before rolling your mesh, and carefully fold the seam over and re-oxidize."
I'm not fully getting the picture on this. Do you mean pre-oxidize, then roll, the re-oxidize? Not understanding "seam".
I fold the mesh inward at the end of the roll so there are no frays.
I have not been pre-oxidizing the mesh but will do that.
I don't have a torch but use my gas stove, works charms.
I understand your coiling method pretty good.
Thanks for the tips, please elaborate on "seam" terminology.
Gave it another go, with new mesh, washed that mesh, oxidized it, did the braid around the top wire (although not as long and as neat as pictured above), and still got a hot spot.
I'm not giving up yet. I need to order some more mesh and wire, though.
I'm jealous of your coils, ericska!
EDIT: One thing I noticed, is that ericska used the extra screw-hole as his negative, while I've been using the little tower with the hole in it to put my negative side of the wire through. Would that make a difference, since it's so much farther away from the wick?
I'm not giving up yet. I need to order some more mesh and wire, though.
I'm jealous of your coils, ericska!
EDIT: One thing I noticed, is that ericska used the extra screw-hole as his negative, while I've been using the little tower with the hole in it to put my negative side of the wire through. Would that make a difference, since it's so much farther away from the wick?
You've got the right idea, and your tutorial is a very good one for people who are just getting started. I think that if you're having some success with it, then it's a valid method to use until you find ways of fixing the small issues that the DBM has. I just happened to pop into this thread after getting a lot of questions about coil-building, so I seized the moment, so to speak... heh
As far as the seam: The seam of the mesh is the edge that will be exposed when you roll up your mesh. It is the source of top-coil hotspots. So yes, you want to oxidize that seam very well, and there are a few ways to do it:
If you know that your mesh is cut to the perfect size, go ahead and pre-oxidize the square piece of mesh well, hitting that seam like no other. Roll your wick, fold the edge over to bury the sharp edge inside the rolled mesh, and flatten the fold as much as possible. Then go back and oxidize the way you normally do. If the actual, buried edge is not oxidized enough, small hairs can actually poke thru the outer layer of mesh and cause micro-shorts- and it's very hard to see this, so its best to just make sure the edge is oxidized well.
If you're unsure on mesh size, pre-oxidize without focusing on the edge. Roll your wick and test-fit until you have a prefect fit- then, unroll the exposed edge and oxidize well. Fold the edge over (again, towards the inside, to bury the sharp edge), and follow the rest of the steps above.
A solid wick with a very tiny hole in the center is best if you're running with the fill-screw in, but a mostly-solid wick is almost as good. Solid wicks need to soak for a few minutes, depending on size, before firing- kind of like "priming" them.
The only really great reason to use the DBM is because of top coil hotspots- if you don't get hot spots, you can use my method with no issue. To avoid top-coil hotspots, avoid wrapping on the seam at all costs, lol. That seam is the source of almost every hot spot.
As with you, I'm just sharing what works for me. Even though I'm sure to some people it sounds like I've either got a magical, gravity defying method, or like I'm talking out my ..... , I promise that this works, and works well.
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The "extra screw hole you mention IS the negative contact for this set up. The post with the hole inside is used for negative contact when using silica or cotton as a wick
The "extra screw hole you mention IS the negative contact for this set up. The post with the hole inside is used for negative contact when using silica or cotton as a wick
Well, son of.........
I was going by the various videos I've seen, where people were using that as the neg post, but I honestly can't remember it they were using silica/cotton wicks, or SS mesh.
But the question still remains; could this be what's causing my hot spot at the top of the coil? I really hope it is, because I can't see what else I'm doing wrong.
Thanks V, I think I am going to give it a go tomorrow and not wait for this set up to "need" replacing.
So as long as I:
Keep the seem to the center,
Work out the seam so it doesn't change the profile of the wick,
Get the wick nice and round,
Then hand wrapping on the wick is the best way to get uniform contact, which in turn can eliminate some of the issues before they manifest?
So as long as I:
Keep the seem to the center,
Work out the seam so it doesn't change the profile of the wick,
Get the wick nice and round,
Then hand wrapping on the wick is the best way to get uniform contact, which in turn can eliminate some of the issues before they manifest?
i have to agree with the ninja on this, i think i have seen more issues of hotspots and shorts with this method. i also believe that the reason is not enough contact of the wick from coil. anything that is new and is suppose to be better i will try it, and have tried this drill bit thing quite a few times. sometimes it does work, but it takes so much more of an effort. it seems to be much more inconsistant to me. whenever i wrap a coil the traditional way, it works everytime and takes seconds to do. especially if your using 32g wire, which i dont, but this wire moves alot more to start compared to a thicker wire and if you are just inserting the wick into a pre-made coil it may be ok for a short time, but then the wire tends to move a little. thats all you need for a hotspot. coil tension is a big key and this drill bit idea to me doesnt give a consistant tension. this is just an opinion, and what i personally have found, if this method is working for you thats all that matters and you should stick with it. granted you can make some pretty coils though, but the wick doesnt care.
Oh my! What have I got myself into?This sounds terribly complex. Way over my head.
eHuman, thanks for all of that effort.
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Yes to all of your questions...and if you still get hot spots, don't be afraid to adjust those coils...gently poke and move one coil at a time, starting with the one below or above the coil that glows brightest. Also, try and find a way to drain the tank before replacing your build. The second you see even glowing coils, soak 'em with eliquid.
Please let us know how it turns out!
This sounds terribly complex. Way over my head.
eHuman, thanks for all of that effort.
It's not nearly as complicated as it looks, most things in his tutorial are common sense...no matter which way you choose to build your coil, eventually you'll end up finding a build that works for you. In my case, I even learned that you can cut some corners- for example, when I oxidize, I just torch the mesh- my wicks never see a quenching bowl or a juice burn before I use them.
In the end, it's just wrapping a wire around a wick. Just relax and have fun with it
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That's the thing, it does work for me and I have no hot spots to worry about, but... What I am interested in Ninja's method is I can replace my fill screw, use a solid wick and have no break in time in order to taste flavor. Those claims alone are worth me looking into it even though what I do works perfectly fine. I "get" the concept that a coil wrapped on the wick if done properly will have uniform contact. That part isn't a problem for me (I don't get hot spots) but wrapping on the wick should be quicker to boot.
This sounds terribly complex. Way over my head.
eHuman, thanks for all of that effort.
Not complex, just over detailed, I don't know where you are starting from
Not complex, just over detailed, I don't know where you are starting from
Thanks. I know the extreme basics, like the anatomy of an RBA, and I've watched the Zen Atty Pro Provape video. That's it, so thanks for making it elementary.
I think I get the picture. Getting hot spots is good sign... like an alarm said, "oops, you got short between the coil and ss mesh!". So, twist lead or add washer is just like ignore the warning, the alarm. No wonder the other one of my AGA-T+(I have two.) performs better taste and more vapour, I done(wrap coil) this one with no twist lead or washer stuff, and didn't got any hot spots... lucky maybe. Hmm, fold the seam of the mesh over... gotta try it tonight! Thank you V Ninja!
) performs better taste and more vapour, I done(wrap coil) this one with no twist lead or washer stuff, and didn't got any hot spots... lucky maybe. Hmm, fold the seam of the mesh over... gotta try it tonight! Thank you V Ninja!
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Ok, 1.5" x 3" 500 mesh rolled solid to fit the wick hole.
Coil wrapped on wick 5/6 30g @ 1.6Ω.
Top of wick even with top positive post nut.
Top coil runs straight (horizontal) to bottom of top positive post nut.
Minor hot spot adjust initially.
Fill screw in.
Opened the air hole a tad /w a cork screw.
Chain vaping @ 10w in vertical upright position:
Great flavor, wicking keeps up with vape, no metallic taste, thick plumes of vapage.
Took the cap off, holding PV upside down in vertical position, full tank, x 10 (ten) minutes:
Not one drop leaked.
Not one drop even formed on tip of wick, wick almost looked dry.
I now have a pocket friendly lay on the desk liking, no more holding it up while I drive loving RBA.
Ninja, you just gave me the edge to move out of the minor leagues.
Thank you Sir,
Spot on advice.
Edit: Oh, and the "new wick n coil break in" was done before I took my first vape.
Coil wrapped on wick 5/6 30g @ 1.6Ω.
Top of wick even with top positive post nut.
Top coil runs straight (horizontal) to bottom of top positive post nut.
Minor hot spot adjust initially.
Fill screw in.
Opened the air hole a tad /w a cork screw.
Chain vaping @ 10w in vertical upright position:
Great flavor, wicking keeps up with vape, no metallic taste, thick plumes of vapage.
Took the cap off, holding PV upside down in vertical position, full tank, x 10 (ten) minutes:
Not one drop leaked.
Not one drop even formed on tip of wick, wick almost looked dry.
I now have a pocket friendly lay on the desk liking, no more holding it up while I drive loving RBA.
Ninja, you just gave me the edge to move out of the minor leagues.
Thank you Sir,
Spot on advice.
Edit: Oh, and the "new wick n coil break in" was done before I took my first vape.
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I think I am going to have to try this out. Maybe I missed it but how tight do you wrap the coil around wick?
i saw this question asked and read the entire thread and didnt see anyone answer.
the glass tank from the aga-t2 do fit the original aga-t. i purchased from hoosier vapes and added an extra tank. i am currently using that one on my aga-t.
the glass tank from the aga-t2 do fit the original aga-t. i purchased from hoosier vapes and added an extra tank. i am currently using that one on my aga-t.
HAH! I cant believe that worked. I have an aga-s that I just received in a trade. It is too small for any washers I have. couldn't get that top coil right. This trick actually worked. Its not pretty but it got the job done. Thanks!
This sounds terribly complex. Way over my head.
eHuman, thanks for all of that effort.
Exactly what I was thinking. I ordered one of these too. Can't stop laughing now.- Status
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